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Jonathan Frakes: "TATV an unpleasent memory"

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I agree...in hindsight it's not as horridly shittastic as I and others sometimes make it out to be...it's not a war crime or anything . If I *had* to watch it in a pinch I could. I wouldn't enjoy it. It'd make my eye sockets bleed.

But I could do it so long as I focused on the Federation charter ceremony and Enterprise montage at the very end. Everything else would be a dreadful bore and give me no pleasure...but I've seen much worse when it comes to episodes of the TREK franchise.
 
I saw the intention and I understood the motive. But the episode was just badly written and because of that it felt like a clip show to save money (see TNG's "Shades of Grey"), although it wasnt at all.

The best thing about TATV was the ending. Awesome ending.
 
The bulk of the episode: D- / F

The ending: A+


But sadly...because it lasted just a few brief minutes(if that long)...the collection of scenes where Archer prepares to give the Charter Speech and then we see the montage of the different Enterprises isn't enough to save the finale from turkey status. It was like reading an absolutely dreadful library book, getting to the end after hours of pain and boredom and then finding out the previous borrower had left a $5 bill in the thing as a makeshift bookmark. A wonderful surprise...but nowhere near enough to make up for the previous few hours.
 
Actually a $5 bill in a library book would be totally sweet.

I didn't like the ending so much. It would have been nice to see at least some of Archer's speech. The montage was contrived and pulled at the heart strings and I hate that shit. We should have had Archer give the Space The Final Frontier speech on his own with a slow shot of just the NX-01 going off into the sunset. I felt the montage we got was just there as merely a band-aid over a lackluster ending.
 
True. It was pretty blatant and didn't pull any punches. The ending montage and voiceover were pretty transparent.

But they worked. At least in my eyes. Which is more than you can say for roughly 95% of the rest of the episode. I'm just happy I could come away from that turkey with something good to say about it...however tiny.
 
Frakes rules. I always liked talking to him. Guy's hysterical. Get him and Spiner in a room together and let the voiding of bowels commence.

As for TATV, I disliked it more at the time it aired because:

1) disappointment in the premature ending of the series. Trek on TV was ending for the foreseeable future and this not particularly well written story was the final episode.

2) Terra Prime was so damned good (your mileage may vary on that though).

3) The focus was wrong and they missed an opportunity to show us a post-Nemesis Riker.

4) Trip died poorly; it's not his death that bothered me, just the manner of it. Had he gone out in style, in a touching fashion, then I'd have been fine with it. As it stands it happened during the commercials. Ugh.

5) The main characters were treated poorly; nobody seemed to care Trip died, nobody got promotions or changed at all - etc. They were just "there." Granted, guys like Maywether always were just "there" but they deserved better.

6) The whole episode built up to an event we never get to see (the speech) and it ends on a "sly joke" ("End Program"). Now I admit, having two episodes in a rwo conclude with a rousing speech would be a tad repetitive, but it's still a narrative letdown. I guess the journey really was more important, right Harry Kim?

I dislike it less now because:

1) I got over it.

2) There have been worse episodes.

3) I got over it.

I still think the show got ripped off and deserved a full 7 year run. But now that we're many years beyond and viewing order is at my own whim, it doesn't bother me much. There were some good bits in there and it's still better than "Trip gets pregnant" or something.
 
I never "hated" B5. I just couldn't get into it. It never did anything that mesmerized me. It was acceptable science fiction television...nothing more, nothing less.
 
I never "hated" B5. I just couldn't get into it. It never did anything that mesmerized me. It was acceptable science fiction television...nothing more, nothing less.

I always seemed to recall the relationship between Sheridan and Kosh was much more deep than what actually happened. One minute Kosh was monosyllabic and uncommunicative as usual and the next he was Sheridan's dad in a dream and bonding to him like they were cosmic twins.
 
If there's a revival of B5 at some point in the future...a reboot or something similar...I'll check it out. I'd be narrow-minded not to, because it might be a big improvement over "classic" B5. But I don't really foresee the series being revived given its current fanbase. There aren't enough people who want to see such a thing.
 
How many episodes did you watch to make sure you hated it?
Enough

Very evasive. 6? A season? Come on, you can tell us. We'll only judge you anyway.
Pretty much the whole series. Tuning in not to see how much I hated, but hoping it would get better, especially with all my sci-fi friends telling me how much I should be liking it. Same with NuBSG though I didn't waste my time watching NuBSG.
 
While I'm not a fan of TATV, I think the criticism of it has gotten way over the top. It's nowhere close to worst ENT episode, just a poor series finale. "ANIS" for example, is much, much worse.
No, TATV is demonstrably the worst episode. My decision is FINAL!
 
If I were Frakes and had just been asked by B&B to star in the series finale of ENT, the first thing I would have asked was, "Why are Riker and Troi on a Trek show that has nothing to do with them and isn't even the same time period as TNG?"
No, the first thing ANY actor would have asked is "How big is the paycheck?".
 
While I'm not a fan of TATV, I think the criticism of it has gotten way over the top. It's nowhere close to worst ENT episode, just a poor series finale. "ANIS" for example, is much, much worse.
No, TATV is demonstrably the worst episode. My decision is FINAL!

Of ENTERPRISE? Agreed. :techman:

But I could pick episodes of TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9 and VOY that were just as awful if not worse. That shows how good a show ENTERPRISE really was when you weigh all its pros and cons. It's worst episodes...the stinkiest turkeys... are still fractionally better than the absolute worst of other shows in the franchise.
 
If there's a revival of B5 at some point in the future...a reboot or something similar...I'll check it out. I'd be narrow-minded not to, because it might be a big improvement over "classic" B5. But I don't really foresee the series being revived given its current fanbase. There aren't enough people who want to see such a thing.

I'd be up for it. I love Babylon 5 second only to Star Trek. But, given the poor track record of the B5 revivals to date, I don't hold much hope that another one would be any good.

That said however, like you, I would be interested enough to check it out. It's Babylon 5 after all.
 
While I'm not a fan of TATV, I think the criticism of it has gotten way over the top. It's nowhere close to worst ENT episode, just a poor series finale. "ANIS" for example, is much, much worse.
No, TATV is demonstrably the worst episode. My decision is FINAL!

Of ENTERPRISE? Agreed. :techman:

But I could pick episodes of TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9 and VOY that were just as awful if not worse. That shows how good a show ENTERPRISE really was when you weigh all its pros and cons. It's worst episodes...the stinkiest turkeys... are still fractionally better than the absolute worst of other shows in the franchise.

Excellent point. Compared to 'Threshold' or 'Spock's Brain', TATV doesn't look quite so awful .....

... But I still think it was a horribly done episode.
 
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