Hoshi & T'Pol: Sugar, Spice and Pon farr.

[Mach5]

Because you asked for it.

Now I know for a fact that a lot of you actually wanted to see this on screen. I even saw some damn good photo manips showing those two in interesting situations... Uhm...

BTW, do you think a Vulcan could even go through pon farr without the mate of an opposite sex? I guess it would be possible, since it's all in their heads anyway, but...

Discuss.

 

[Admiral Shran]

This thread needs those "damn good photo manips" or at least links to them.

 

[Mach5]

This thread needs those "damn good photo manips" or at least links to them.

I'm sorry, I'd be violating board rules if I posted them.

I don't think I even have those on my hard drive any more.

 

[Middleman]

Now this is a non canon pairing worth talking about.

 

[Agenda]

BTW, do you think a Vulcan could even go through pon farr without the mate of an opposite sex?

Well, if she's lesbian or bi then duh. No offense, but that's rather ignorant and insulting at the same time.

 

[Skywalker]

Now this is a ship I can get behind.

 

[zar]

BTW, do you think a Vulcan could even go through pon farr without the mate of an opposite sex?

Well, if she's lesbian or bi then duh. No offense, but that's rather ignorant and insulting at the same time.

No it isn't. Pon farr is a mating drive. You know how mating works?

 

[Agenda]

Do you? Mating is the fulfillment of the desire to have sex. In homosexuality - in animals or humans - it's the desire to have sex with the same sex, even if a child isn't the result.

I can't believe I'm even having this conversation.

 

[zar]

I can't believe I'm even having this conversation.

Dude, relax.

You're arguing semantics. Mating is a biological term, referring to reproduction. And the introduction of pon farr in Amok Time quite clearly indicated it was a drive for biological mating, as in reproduction:

SPOCK: It has to do with biology.
KIRK: What?
SPOCK: Biology.
KIRK: What kind of biology?
SPOCK: Vulcan biology.

"It is the pon farr. The time of mating. There are precedents in nature, Captain. The giant eelbirds of Regulus Five, once each eleven years they must return to the caverns where they hatched. On your Earth, the salmon. They must return to that one stream where they were born, to spawn or die in trying."

 

[Agenda]

Dude...do you think that when a "giant eelbird" (whatever the fuck that is) has sex (i.e. mates) it cares that it's "reproducing"? No. Assuming it's just a dumb animal, it doesn't have any concept that little eelbirds are going to pop out in a few months time. It doesn't care. The mating is instinct. It's sex that feels good. The fact that little eelbirds pop out is just the ultimate result of that instinct.

 

[zar]

Dude...do you think that when a "giant eelbird" (whatever the fuck that is) has sex (i.e. mates) it cares that it's "reproducing"? No.

I'm sorry, but what does an animal's own personal awareness have to do with the nature of the instinct? The instinct is to reproduce, whether or not they know what's going on when they do it.

Pon farr is supposed to be a biological mating drive, and so Mach5's question seems perfectly logical. Your accusing him of being "ignorant and insulting" was presumptuous and insulting in itself.

 

[Agenda]

Dude...do you think that when a "giant eelbird" (whatever the fuck that is) has sex (i.e. mates) it cares that it's "reproducing"? No.

I'm sorry, but what does an animal's own personal awareness have to do with the nature of the instinct? The instinct is to reproduce, whether or not they know what's going on when they do it.

OMG. Just forget it.

 

[zar]

Very insightful, thank you.

 

[F. King Daniel]

BTW, do you think a Vulcan could even go through pon farr without the mate of an opposite sex? I guess it would be possible, since it's all in their heads anyway, but...

Discuss.

Same-sex (as well as female/hermaphrodite) Pon Farr has happened in the novels.

And as for it being a need for reproduction, I can't imagine a Vulcan/Klingon child ("Blood Fever") nor a Vulcan/Denobulan ("Bounty") happening without medical assistance. In fact, "Demons"/"Terra Prime" suggested medical assistance is needed for a Vulcan/human child. So Pon Farr's just an urge to f--k.

 

[Mach5]

No offense, but that's rather ignorant and insulting at the same time.

1. Offense taken
2. I'm neither bigot, nor a homophobe, and being called "ignorant" bothers me quite a bit.
3. presumption is the mother of all fuckups

4.

Pon farr is supposed to be a biological mating drive, and so Mach5's question seems perfectly logical. Your accusing him of being "ignorant and insulting" was presumptuous and insulting in itself.

this

Same-sex (as well as female/hermaphrodite) Pon Farr has happened in the novels.

Which ones? O.o

 

[PsychoPere]

^ PAD's New Frontier: Selar and Burgoyne 172.

 

[Mach5]

^ PAD's New Frontier: Selar and Burgoyne 172.

Oh, I remember reading about Selar and Burgoyne on Memory Beta. IIRC, Burgoyne is neither male of female, but it's a good example none the less. I was planning on giving those books a read, just never got around to it.

 

[F. King Daniel]

IIRC, lesbian Pon Farr was in one of the Vanguard novels (which I haven't read yet) and the female/hermaphrodite one was New Frontier: Martyr.

 

[Michael]

This thread needs those "damn good photo manips" or at least links to them.

Well, one can find this on deviantArt ...

http://i52.tinypic.com/29vmblf.jpg

That image is safe, isn't it?



[It's hotlinked and posted without the artist's permission, which renders the issue moot.

No hotlinking. Please review the FAQ regarding image posting. Reviewing the terms of DeviantArt would be a good idea too, while you're at it. --HR]

 

[Aquarius]

I know Mistress Euclid addressed this in the "Director's Cut" of her story "Shakiak". I'd post a link but it's NC-17 and I don't know if that would be violating the rules or not. Basically, it's set in the MU, and she wrote it from the perspective that while T'Pol formed a mate bond with Hoshi, a male was still required because pon farr was the drive to reproduce. Of course, Mistress E has a pretty hedonistic interpretation of what the MU is like.

Also, I know that Bluetiger has drawn some illustrations for that story, of varying degrees of safe/not safe for work, posted at the Delphic Expanse forums and possibly at Deviant Art. Her work is quite good.