Legalizing marijuana. I don't get it.

[Itisnotlogical]

Several of my teachers and friends who teach throughout my life have said that when s/he pulls kids out of class because they're stoned out of their mind and not paying attention, it's often the ones who write long long essays about how marijuana should be legal and it's totally harmless.

I believe that shows how many people would use marijuana responsibly were it to be legalized for private non-medical use

 

[iguana_tonante]

I hope you were stoned when you wrote that, because otherwise the run-on sentence is just embarrassing.

 

[Itisnotlogical]

^^

I was stating my viewpoint. If marijuana were legalized for private non-medical use, people (not just neo-hippies of high school age) would get stoned, hop behind the wheel of a car, and proceed to lead said car into the nearest available living room. I'm in favor of legalizing it for medical use under the supervision or with the approval of a doctor, but not so that anybody looking for a good time can deliberately make themselves stupid.

 

[Trekker4747]

. . . It is ridiculous to label weed 'bad' and alcohol 'okay' based on anything but the most arbitrary of reasons. But that is what the laws currently DO.

As Bill Maher pointed out, the current drug laws are nothing more than an attempt to legislate taste.

I think it has more to do with our nation's history of a dominance of Christian values. Although there's nothing directly obvious about "alcohol's ok, drugs aren't" in Christian theology, it does track historically that alcohol use has always been considered more socially acceptable in religious ideology than recreational drug use. Honestly it probably has to do with the fact that alcohol traces its roots back to very early western civ and has been available and popular in Judeo-Christian societies for ages. Things like pot, hash, peyote, etc; the naturally grown narcotics, HAVE been around just as long or longer, but historically were always much more embraced by Pagan cultures than Christian ones. I'm not like a western civ expert but I'm betting that definitely has something to do with the evolution of the perception of recreational drug use in the western world as taboo.

Well, then apply limitations and penalties to it's use similar to those applied to alcohol. Drunk driving is a crime. Stoned driving could be a crime also...without making weed itself illegal. In fact, you don't even need to call it 'drunk driving' or 'stoned driving'. You could simply call it 'chemically impaired driving', and apply the exact same penalties.

It already is, at least in Missouri. They just package it under "driving under the influence".

I'm just going to make a little side comment, not that it should be taken to imply that I'm against legalization but I've seen at least a couple people claim that it's less of an impairment to drive high than to drive drunk and... maybe I'm just a little odd but I couldn't disagree more. I've probably smoked pot like 6 times in my entire life, and out of those six times I've probably tried to drive, twice. I'll just admit in order to demonstrate my point, I've probably driven under the influence... idk, 10 times. I know it's horrible, it's stupid, it's putting people at risk, yada yada, if anyone's had someone they care about hurt by a DD, I completely understand if you think I'm an asshole but that has nothing to do with my point. Any time I have tried to drive while high (twice), I have given up and had someone else drive me after about a block. The last time I did it, I think I got lost in my hometown of 17 years after a similar distance. I can't understand how anyone could possibly do it. On the other hand, and maybe this is from practice? I don't know, I'm not trying to make it sound cool, it's simply fortunate for my sake and everyone else's, but unfortunately I've managed to drive home from parties, friends' houses, etc, completely, and brutally, obliterated. Maybe I'm just really careful, don't drive like an idiot, don't try to get home fast, etc; idk. On a scale of 1-10, 10 being you black our, I've probably driven at a 7 a couple times and a 9 once. But that was kind of unavoidable bc I got thrown out of a party at 4 am out in the boonies... And I would probably say that every experience I have had attempting to drive high is 4 times harder than the WORST experience I have ever had trying to drive home intoxicated. Just my 2 cents.

The fact that while you were driving while high you knew you couldn't do it is proof that being "high" while driving isn't as bad as being drunk while driving, where people aren't aware enough to know they're driving badly.

I was stating my viewpoint. If marijuana were legalized for private non-medical use, people (not just neo-hippies of high school age) would get stoned, hop behind the wheel of a car, and proceed to lead said car into the nearest available living room. I'm in favor of legalizing it for medical use under the supervision or with the approval of a doctor, but not so that anybody looking for a good time can deliberately make themselves stupid.

Do you feel this same way about alcohol? People commonly take it just to get the buzz/make themselves stupid, drive, and then plow into living rooms.

 

[Itisnotlogical]

^^

Yes, I do think that alcohol makes you stupid, and it is a very bad thing. But we all remember what a smashing success Prohibition was, so like it or not it's here to stay for at the least several more centuries.

 

[SG-17]

^^

I was stating my viewpoint. If marijuana were legalized for private non-medical use, people (not just neo-hippies of high school age) would get stoned, hop behind the wheel of a car, and proceed to lead said car into the nearest available living room. I'm in favor of legalizing it for medical use under the supervision or with the approval of a doctor, but not so that anybody looking for a good time can deliberately make themselves stupid.

You assume that when you drive while stoned you drive fast. Quite the opposite really.


Also are you in favor of keeping alcohol legal for use under the supervision of sanitation/medical professionals, but not so that anybody looking for a good time can deliberately make themselves stupid?


You can't make that argument without modifiers, to do so you would need to advocate the return to illegality for personal use of other perception altering drugs like alcohol, caffeine, etc because the same problem would/does exist with them as well.


Edit: Look at what a smashing success the prohibition of marijuana is.

/sarcasm

 

[PKTrekGirl]

I'd assume that there would be similar penalties if it were legalized. I'm not sure if you're trying to disagree with me, or merely using my post as a way to put forth your own opinion. For the record, I'm not against the legalization of marijuana.

I used your argument because I disagreed with your premise; that being that it is wrong to draw comparisons between weed and alcohol because 'that is setting a low bar'.

My argument is that we have every right to draw comparisons between legislation surrounding alcohol and that surrounding weed, because laws should rationally made sense in light of other laws. Indeed, that is how laws are interpreted and expanded upon in the courts - via precedent.

So to be clear - I am not 'using your post to put forth my own opinion'. My 'opinion' is what it is, and I am capable of putting it forth with or without the use of your comments.

I just didn't happen to agree with your statement that the issue of alcohol and the issue of weed by necessity be divorced, because the use of alcohol in the discussion 'lowers the bar' or whatever.

Application of precedent is how much new law is in fact made. And how we treat the issue of alcohol should be very relevant to how we address the issue of weed. Especially since the possible detrimental effects of alcohol actually outnumber the possible detrimental effects of weed.

In light of THAT, it would seem to me that application of the exact same laws should be viewed as being on the conservative side.

If, of course, we were trying to be rational, instead of reactionary.

 

[KJbushway]

itisnotlogical
^
OK. But by your arguement alone we should take away cellphones, alcohol, and chewing tobacco. Why? Becuase this is what teenagers abuse and get distracted with all the time. Teenagers are stupid and abuse and mistreat all the time. Frankly they don't need to be under DUI in order to crash and kill themselves and others. You can never prevent 100% from teenagers using it. But let me ask you, would you perfer they use alcohol, cocaine, heroin, a lot of the extremely addictive drugs.

But I can assure you that most users are normal everyday people who don't abuse it, just use it to relax. You can't punish the majority for what the minority do. There is always stupid people that can be prevented. not every teen is going to shoot up, thats a fact, most teens probably wouldn't touch it.

 

[Itisnotlogical]

^^

I was stating my viewpoint. If marijuana were legalized for private non-medical use, people (not just neo-hippies of high school age) would get stoned, hop behind the wheel of a car, and proceed to lead said car into the nearest available living room. I'm in favor of legalizing it for medical use under the supervision or with the approval of a doctor, but not so that anybody looking for a good time can deliberately make themselves stupid.

You assume that when you drive while stoned you drive fast. Quite the opposite really.


Also are you in favor of keeping alcohol legal for use under the supervision of sanitation/medical professionals, but not so that anybody looking for a good time can deliberately make themselves stupid?


You can't make that argument without modifiers, to do so you would need to advocate the return to illegality for personal use of other perception altering drugs like alcohol, caffeine, etc because the same problem would/does exist with them as well.


Edit: Look at what a smashing success the prohibition of marijuana is.

/sarcasm

It seems I have to be perfectly, 100% clear for people to understand me.

DRINKING ALCOHOL BAD. CLEANING ALCOHOL GOOD.

I do not understand how caffeine alters your perception in any dramatic way. You drink a cup of coffee, and you feel a little more energetic. You don't hallucinate, get blurred vision, you might get a slightly heightened reaction time, maybe it's not the healthiest thing in the world, but it's a far cry from alcohol or opium or other much more dangerous drugs.

Edit: Look at what a smashing success the prohibition of marijuana is.

Didn't I just make it clear that I'm not in favor of the 100% ban on marijuana?

 

[Davros]

^^

I was stating my viewpoint. If marijuana were legalized for private non-medical use, people (not just neo-hippies of high school age) would get stoned, hop behind the wheel of a car, and proceed to lead said car into the nearest available living room. I'm in favor of legalizing it for medical use under the supervision or with the approval of a doctor, but not so that anybody looking for a good time can deliberately make themselves stupid.

The people who are going to get high are already doing so, be it with booze or pot or whatever. The party people will still be the same people. The laws against it have done very little to curb it's use. They have succeeded quite well in creating vast untaxed profits for criminal enterprises. The resources we spend on failing to stop this very useful plant could far better be spent on treatment and see far better results. Drug use is older than civilization and isn't going away because somebody passed a law.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I was stating my viewpoint.

In a rather convoluted way, yes.

If marijuana were legalized for private non-medical use, people (not just neo-hippies of high school age) would get stoned, hop behind the wheel of a car, and proceed to lead said car into the nearest available living room. I'm in favor of legalizing it for medical use under the supervision or with the approval of a doctor, but not so that anybody looking for a good time can deliberately make themselves stupid.

What can I say that haven't been said already? 1. Getting hold of some pot isn't so difficult already. Just a quick trip to your local dealer. And that's for people who don't grow their own. Legalizing it won't make it much more available than it is now. 2. Stated more than once, but since it's still relevant: what about alcohol? Or are you gonna support making it illegal? Because maybe you've heard of it, but alcohol impair your ability to drive, too. 3. Driving under the influence is already a crime, and rightfully so. Legalizing pot won't make it go away.

 

[Davros]

Since medical marijuana was passed here, it has become very hard to find cheap compacted pot from Mexico with lots of seeds in it. It', now almost all locally grown high potency with no seeds. The Mexican mafia lost a big market and the state found their new biggest source of tax revenue. We might also get to host the Cannabis Cup which will roll in some good green tourist dollars.

 

[KJbushway]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDLxTG6JM2w

Its bill maher night on TrekBBS

 

[UssGlenn]

The people who are going to get high are already doing so, be it with booze or pot or whatever. The party people will still be the same people.

They will be the same people initially, but once it's not illegal the stigma will fade and the number of people doing it will go up. There's just no way to know how much.

 

[Davros]

The people who are going to get high are already doing so, be it with booze or pot or whatever. The party people will still be the same people.

They will be the same people initially, but once it's not illegal the stigma will fade and the number of people doing it will go up. There's just no way to know how much.

That's the opposite of what happened in Holland. They actually saw a reduction in use.

But since it is less debilitating than alcohol and that is legal, why not marijuana as well?

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Since medical marijuana was passed here,

Where is 'here'?

I know that this has been an issue in a few states now (CA, WA, for sure, but maybe others?)...but I have not kept up on where everyone is in the legislation. Especially given the fact that the backward-ass state I live in (Georgia) will NEVER legalize it, unless forced, so it's sort of a non-issue for me.

 

[KJbushway]

The people who are going to get high are already doing so, be it with booze or pot or whatever. The party people will still be the same people.

They will be the same people initially, but once it's not illegal the stigma will fade and the number of people doing it will go up. There's just no way to know how much.

Where is your scientific data on this.
Wheres the chart?

 

[Gaith]

I think it has more to do with our nation's history of a dominance of Christian values. Although there's nothing directly obvious about "alcohol's ok, drugs aren't" in Christian theology, it does track historically that alcohol use has always been considered more socially acceptable in religious ideology than recreational drug use. Honestly it probably has to do with the fact that alcohol traces its roots back to very early western civ and has been available and popular in Judeo-Christian societies for ages. Things like pot, hash, peyote, etc; the naturally grown narcotics, HAVE been around just as long or longer, but historically were always much more embraced by Pagan cultures than Christian ones. I'm not like a western civ expert but I'm betting that definitely has something to do with the evolution of the perception of recreational drug use in the western world as taboo.

Bingo. Jesus drank wine; the Indians smoked hash. Case closed.

 

[Davros]

Since medical marijuana was passed here,

Where is 'here'?

I know that this has been an issue in a few states now (CA, WA, for sure, but maybe others?)...but I have not kept up on where everyone is in the legislation. Especially given the fact that the backward-ass state I live in (Georgia) will NEVER legalize it, unless forced, so it's sort of a non-issue for me.

Colorado, sorry for not being clear. I think it's funny that there is a dispensary 3 blocks south of the Denver city police HQ.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

^Ah! Great! Thanks! Didn't even know it had passed in CO. Well done!

Here in GA, they are still in that "First stop, pot; next stop heroin!" mindset.