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What's so great about Firefly?

About 8 years ago, I made this exact post.

I had seen it on TV and didn't like the few episodes I saw. I said such, and maligned the fact people where raving about a canceled show that didn't even go a full half-season.

Someone, I can't remember who but I want to say Lindley, dared me to watch the actual pilot and THEN say I didn't like it.

I watched.

I loved.

I became a Browncoat.

If you've seen the actual pilot and still don't like it? Then you're boned, to be blunt. Nothing else you can do. For me, it re-wrote history and made me enjoy the show and totally love it. :)
 
@J. Allen: Exactly. It's art, but it's not great art, or more accurately not as great as people think it is. What's so strange about that?
 
@J. Allen: Exactly. It's art, but it's not great art, or more accurately not as great as people think it is. What's so strange about that?
Because when you say, "it's not great art, or more accurately not as great as people think it is," you're applying your standards of what constitutes "great art" and insisting that others comply by them.
 
@J. Allen: Exactly. It's art, but it's not great art, or more accurately not as great as people think it is. What's so strange about that?

Let me pose a question to you. This little show, that barely existed, has conventions, web sites, and most importantly, die-hard fans all over the place. Some are Whedon fans-and some loathe everything else he's ever done. So claiming he's the reason because of who he is is inaccurate. That said:

How can Firefly not bear some seeds of greatness within it and yet still engender such a passionate response with so many?

I mean, do you see or hear people acting this way (prior 15 pages) for The Sarah Connor Chronicles? Or as Greg suggested, Threshold? I don't. To me, that seems to suggest that Firefly has something those other shows don't/didn't.
 
I don't think my criteria for true greatness is unreasonable. To be fair, I wouldn't necessarily say that Trek is, in absolute terms, truly great. It's good. When I think of great science fiction, I think of Isaac Asimov.

@Mistral: For many people, it is a fun, entertaining show. I never said anything about it being popular because of Whedon. I don't think something needs to be a great work of art to inspire conventions and fandoms.
 
I don't think my criteria for true greatness is unreasonable. To be fair, I wouldn't necessarily say that Trek is, in absolute terms, truly great. It's good. When I think of great science fiction, I think of Isaac Asimov.

@Mistral: For many people, it is a fun, entertaining show. I never said anything about it being popular because of Whedon. I don't think something needs to be a great work of art to inspire conventions and fandoms.
Isaac Asimov hasn't made any TV Series, so Isaac Asimov can't count as Great Art in TV Series. So, what TV show do you see as Great Art, that Firefly is failing to live up to? You've already eliminated Trek and NuBSG, so...what about Farscape, Babylon 5?
 
I don't think my criteria for true greatness is unreasonable. To be fair, I wouldn't necessarily say that Trek is, in absolute terms, truly great. It's good. When I think of great science fiction, I think of Isaac Asimov.

@Mistral: For many people, it is a fun, entertaining show. I never said anything about it being popular because of Whedon. I don't think something needs to be a great work of art to inspire conventions and fandoms.

Asimov? Okay. If you say so. I've read almost every scifi book he's written. He's one of the big guys in the golden era but I wouldn't call his work great, in general. It's fair writing at best.
Firefly has more personality than most of his characters.
 
I thought I'd give this show a shot some five or six years ago, watched a pilot (on TV), and didn't really find it engaging enough to tune in again the week after...

A few months ago I decided to give it another shot. So many people praised it, I figured I must have missed something first time around. So I watched the pilot again... And AGAIN I didn't find it engaging enough to continue watching.

I didn't find it bad or anything, just... I don't know, that pilot left me completely apathetic. Twice.

Obviously, I wasn't the only one (shitty ratings and all), so my question to y'all is - what exactly do you find so appealing about this show?

Sell me on Firefly, guys. :)

I totally agree with you. My girlfriend is friends with a bunch of fanatical Browncoats and I just don't get them at all. Whenever I'm forced to watch an episode I ask myself,"What is so special about this show? It isn't that good. What the hell are they carrying on about?"
 
I totally agree with you. My girlfriend is friends with a bunch of fanatical Browncoats and I just don't get them at all. Whenever I'm forced to watch an episode I ask myself,"What is so special about this show? It isn't that good. What the hell are they carrying on about?"
Well, we could always take the cynical approach, and say that Browncoats love Firefly because

1. It's not for everyone. Hipsters, or so the stereotype goes, hate to have tastes that greatly overlap with the mainstream. Since Firefly is a highly idiosyncratic franchise, with a style that puts many off, Browncoats embrace it as a niche obsession.

2. The look of the show. A spaceship whose kitchen has painted flowers that wouldn't look out of place in a vegan commune? All the Eastern stuff, poofy furniture and various oddments (dinosaur toys)? Not all that many Trekkies or Warsians would actually want to live on their franchise's ships, but Serenity looks just like Browncoats' bedrooms.

- Also, the clothes. The costumes of everyone outside from the Alliance is a thrift-store shopper's dream.

3. Oh, the sarcasm. This reinforces #1, but deserves its own entry. The show's heroes are so very, very witty. Even better, there's a pretty square (100% sass-free) black woman and a super-square black guy, who makes the rest seem wicked stylish by comparison, and a total moron, who makes anything the rest say sound like Shakespeare writing Einstein.

4. Asian culture appropriation. This.

5. They were soldiers once! Contemporary hipsters are often far, far removed from any kind of military connection or experience. Firefly's heroes are just as snarky and stylish as them... but they were in a military once! The fans thus get to bask in the glamor of veteran status without, y'know, actually having to actually identify with active military types (who are, incidentally, the bad guys). I mean, Starfleet? How lame is that? Starfleeters aren't allowed to be sarcastic or dress funkily at all.

6. That damn theme song. Enough said.

7. Summer Glau. She's Asian, right? And hot. And crazy. She's a Manic Pixie Dream Girl who might totally do you if she felt like it, but no way would she ever want to be a girlfriend or, God forbid, get knocked up with your kid. She's made for doing a splits on your Delta Quadrant, not for mothering or talking on and on about her feelings or some crap.

8. They're all poor. The heroes are as broke as real-life hipsters, but they're still awesome. And they have free health care, so, y'know, it's all good. They're, like, totally authentic, and untainted by capitalism. No wage-slave losers here.

9. It's oh-so non-threatening. The male characters are needy, tender-hearted and not at all sexually assertive; by the same token, the females are perky, cute, and wholesome-looking. (The appeal of Zoe, I admit, I've got no theories whatsoever for.) You could buy some girlfriend experience time with Inara, and she'd be entirely nonjudgmental about it as long as you're not a dick. And Mal is a total bad boy with a heart of gold - he's violent, haunted and frequently abrasive, but he'd never break your heart or anything, because he's a single mom-raised softie underneath it all. Everybody wins.

10. ah,

screw it, that's enough reasons. :p

Now, I'm not saying that the above things make Firefly bad; indeed, one could argue that they all make the series good. And I am playing a hypothetical FF hater here.
 
9. It's oh-so non-threatening. The male characters are needy, tender-hearted and not at all sexually assertive; by the same token, the females are perky, cute, and wholesome-looking. (The appeal of Zoe, I admit, I've got no theories whatsoever for.)
Zoe?... Isn't that Gina Torres? You don't see her appeal? I'm Gay, and even I can tell she's hot.

Now, I'm not saying that the above things make Firefly bad; indeed, one could argue that they all make the series good. And I am playing a hypothetical FF hater here.
SonuvaBear, You fooled me. I was cheering you on, for how well you were defending the series positives down to the lowest common denominator :alienblush:

Of course there are also "higher Art" defenses too, IMHO. I'm not as GaGa as some about the series as some, but, I've seen it 1 1/2 times *!/2 of it in a SciFi Marathon, and then viewing my Box Set), and I own it, and it will work it's way back into the viewing rotation eventually, and I look forward to watching it again. I do really love all the actors
 
So, not the prostitute?

Have you even watched the show? Morena Baccarin plays Inara Serra, who is a Companion (a fancy, more classier version of a prostitute but with roles reversed) and who, incidentally, is not black. Gina Torres, the tall, black woman, plays Zoe Washburne, the first officer. I mean, you could have easily looked that up if you really wanted to, but you didn't.

Here is the complete list of the cast. You don't seem to know very much about a show you dislike, and well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle.
 
I'm pretty sure he hasn't watched the show. Between talking philosophy and art, I'm sure he doesn't have the time for it.
 
I'm pretty sure he hasn't watched the show. Between talking philosophy and art, I'm sure he doesn't have the time for it.

Indeed. I mean, how can you not like something and have so many high standards by which you compare the series when you don't know anything about the series? How hard is it to know the primary characters? There's eight of them in the series:

Mal - The Captain
Zoe - First Officer
Wash - Pilot
Jayne - Hired muscle
Kaylie - Engineer, Tinkerer
Shep - Man of the Cloth, support
Simon - Ship's Doctor
River - Prodigy, unbalanced

I knew their roles very well by the second episode. It might seem like a lot, but each character is very distinctive. A passing glance at the show would reveal their characteristics quite easily. It's rather difficult to confuse the characters if you've even watched a few episodes, and if you haven't watched at least a few episodes to get an idea of the show's flavor, then disliking said show is an uninformed decision. It's like disliking Star Trek because that Dr. Spock guy just stays in the background opening hailing frequencies.
 
I think Gina Torres is one of the hottest women alive, and I can't understand it, because her looks are the direct opposite of the petite, fair features that I usually find attractive. But lord, that woman is gorgeous!
 
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