JRPG enthusiasts: When (if ever) did Square 'fall off' for you?

[froot]

I've never touched either XI or XIV and yet I'd be willing to go out on a bit of a limb and say I'm one of the biggest Square RPG fans on TrekBBS hands down. That's how little I care for MMOs.

Well, I'm sort of fond of MMOs, I guess. They kick up this primal urge in me to hoard and collect the hell out of everything.

We may have to battle for that "biggest Square RPG fan" title, sir.

My two best friends were married over Xenogears, which was in production at about the same time. They met over GameFAQs, met in-person a few times, realized the attraction was true and things went from there.

What's your story?

That's actually pretty awesome.

My now-husband attempted to woo me in high school by talking Final Fantasy with me, since it was something we both liked. One day, in math class, he lent me his ancient, battered FF7 BradyGames guide so I could replay the game and get all the stuff I missed (I had never gotten Vincent in all those years, lol.) I wrote a song for him on Tifa's piano and transcribed it in the game guide. And that's how we hit things off.

Nowadays, between the two of us, we have three PSone copies, one digital PS3 copy, and one Windows port of FF7. (And Crisis Core for PSP, which isn't too bad story-wise, if a little repetitive. And it makes me cry. ) Oh, and the battered game guide from high school which still has the song in it.

Wow, I think I just realized something big. Final Fantasy XII is Star Trek: Voyager.

Well, that would explain why I like it, then. The gambit system is what FF13 should have used instead of that "lol everything is automatic" business.

 

[Sephiroth]

would it be appropriate to mention in this thread that I just found my collection of Triple Triad cards?

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Well, I'm sort of fond of MMOs, I guess. They kick up this primal urge in me to hoard and collect the hell out of everything.

We may have to battle for that "biggest Square RPG fan" title, sir.

'Sort of fond' of MMOs... primal urge to hoard and collect everything... now you sound like my ex-girlfriend, who is a big Square fan as well but unlike me, plays lots of MMOs.

I like how wonderfully in-depth MMO worlds can get but I'm just not the biggest fan of hugely quest-based games, nor dealing with the potential for lots and lots of arses in-game.

Sometimes people hear me say that IRL and go, 'oh, you're just not an internet person'; how little they know! It's just somewhat more intolerable for me to see someone being a total bastard when I have to work alongside him for something instead of just reading his posts in a forum...

That's actually pretty awesome.

My now-husband attempted to woo me in high school by talking Final Fantasy with me, since it was something we both liked. One day, in math class, he lent me his ancient, battered FF7 BradyGames guide so I could replay the game and get all the stuff I missed (I had never gotten Vincent in all those years, lol.) I wrote a song for him on Tifa's piano and transcribed it in the game guide. And that's how we hit things off.

Nowadays, between the two of us, we have three PSone copies, one digital PS3 copy, and one Windows port of FF7. (And Crisis Core for PSP, which isn't too bad story-wise, if a little repetitive. And it makes me cry. ) Oh, and the battered game guide from high school which still has the song in it.

That's a really, really cool story!

In regard to how many copies of FFVII you own, I have the American version, the Japanese version, the PC port from Eidos and the PS3 digital copy... not too far behind you! My friends who got married 'over' Xenogears, though, man-oh-man. They've got like six copies of that game altogether!

Well, that would explain why I like it, then. The gambit system is what FF13 should have used instead of that "lol everything is automatic" business.

Funnily enough, I'm a Voyager fan as well. I just... felt an overwhelming urge to make that joke on this board.

People on GameFAQs criticize FFXII for being too 'automatic' for their tastes sometimes. I never agreed with them to begin with, but even then, I bet they're eating their words when they look at XIII.

would it be appropriate to mention in this thread that I just found my collection of Triple Triad cards?

That's cool. I have some too! My friend and I used to play them; we made our own play mat and made cardboard cut-outs for elements to place on it sometimes.

You know there's a website that does Triple Triad games through an app of some sort, right? They've released virtual expansions for damn near every Square RPG by now. It's really cool and totally free.

 

[froot]

would it be appropriate to mention in this thread that I just found my collection of Triple Triad cards?

Whoa, I had no idea they made real ones! Some fan I am.

I like how wonderfully in-depth MMO worlds can get but I'm just not the biggest fan of hugely quest-based games, nor dealing with the potential for lots and lots of arses in-game.

Yeah, people are jerks. WoW made me a meaner person in a matter of weeks. Even working retail couldn't do that to me.

In regard to how many copies of FFVII you own, I have the American version, the Japanese version, the PC port from Eidos and the PS3 digital copy... not too far behind you! My friends who got married 'over' Xenogears, though, man-oh-man. They've got like six copies of that game altogether!

Japanese version?! I think that's gotta be worth more than our three scratched, flimsy US copies. I recall the Eidos version being kind of nice because they fixed a few of the really weird translation errors.

Thinking back, FF7 was pretty roughly translated overall, wasn't it? Tactics had the same problem. I don't think their FF translations improved until FF8 rolled around.

Funnily enough, I'm a Voyager fan as well. I just... felt an overwhelming urge to make that joke on this board.

Naw, I know you are. I mostly was just using a dumb excuse to bring 12 up. The gambits were awfully automatic, but I did kind of like the idea - I know you didn't play 11, but I think it was Squeenix's way of making the real-time "party" experience of 11 work in a single player environment. 12 was very related to 11, gameplay-wise. And I'd take gambits over what they did in 13, too! I didn't realize folks on GameFAQs were so uppity about 12. I usually only go there to browse the walkthroughs.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Whoa, I had no idea they made real ones! Some fan I am.

Nah, most don't realize because they weren't exactly widely publicized over here. I wouldn't have known if my friend hadn't been such a net junkie already in '99!

Yeah, people are jerks. WoW made me a meaner person in a matter of weeks. Even working retail couldn't do that to me.

I've been doing the retail gig for several years and I think WoW would crack me like a nut compared to some of the nuts I've had to deal with in retail.

Japanese version?! I think that's gotta be worth more than our three scratched, flimsy US copies. I recall the Eidos version being kind of nice because they fixed a few of the really weird translation errors.

Thinking back, FF7 was pretty roughly translated overall, wasn't it? Tactics had the same problem. I don't think their FF translations improved until FF8 rolled around.

Yeah, funny story, that. And one that makes me bring up Xenogears again!

When FFVII was en route here, Square still hadn't assembled an official translation team. For Xenogears, however, the shear amount of text to translate -- even compared to FFVII -- literally forced them into it. So VIII onward really benefited from that.

Being the kind of person I am, I can tell you that VIII still fumbled in key areas. (As did Xenogears before it.) The first game from Square to receive a totally-correct localization was actually FFIX.

Naw, I know you are. I mostly was just using a dumb excuse to bring 12 up. The gambits were awfully automatic, but I did kind of like the idea - I know you didn't play 11, but I think it was Squeenix's way of making the real-time "party" experience of 11 work in a single player environment. 12 was very related to 11, gameplay-wise. And I'd take gambits over what they did in 13, too! I didn't realize folks on GameFAQs were so uppity about 12. I usually only go there to browse the walkthroughs.

Well, ultimately GameFAQs is indicative of the internet at large -- a trillion opinions shuffled into a deck of only a billion people. FFXII was so blasted by so many posters for so long a time after release that its fanbase has hardened to it is all. A strong shell of support.

Kinda like Voyager...

 

[Sephiroth]

8 had a fun card game and IMO the best music of the series (and SELPHIE! *smacks* get outta my posts) but gameplay wise was horrible, 9 was originally planned to encompass 8 discs and feature 3 worlds, alot of THAT got cut down, and then was cut further down to put in a beat the game in 24 hours to get a special weapon for Steiner challenge, the whole game honestly felt very unfinished, there were several unresolved plot lines and alot of the map was dead space (cut down a bit by the chocobo minigame) and the final boss was tacked on at the end, totally unmentioned until it's time to fight, I wouldn't have minded ff9 coming out a year later if it meant a more complete game

 

[Skywalker]

FFVII/VIII/IX were the glory days for me, too. Me and my friends were pretty much obsessed with Final Fantasy throughout the late 1990s. I kinda liked FFX, but got bored with it somewhere around the Thunder Plains. I tried FFXII, but I couldn't get into it.

I guess I'm not really entertained by JRPGs anymore.

I'd love to play Xenogears, though, if I can ever find it in the PSN Store. The last time I looked, they didn't have it.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

8 had a fun card game and IMO the best music of the series (and SELPHIE! *smacks* get outta my posts) but gameplay wise was horrible, 9 was originally planned to encompass 8 discs and feature 3 worlds, alot of THAT got cut down, and then was cut further down to put in a beat the game in 24 hours to get a special weapon for Steiner challenge, the whole game honestly felt very unfinished, there were several unresolved plot lines and alot of the map was dead space (cut down a bit by the chocobo minigame) and the final boss was tacked on at the end, totally unmentioned until it's time to fight, I wouldn't have minded ff9 coming out a year later if it meant a more complete game

Ahem... where in heck's name did you hear that? I was a regular member of the game's pre-release board back in 1999/2000 and never once heard that. The game was supposed to be released "Final Fantasy Gaijin" for a while -- that is to say, a short story by comparison. They decided it had enough promise and spunk to make it a full-fledged title, hence the argument from some naysayers regarding the game that it had too many 'boring patches'.

I'd be really, really interested in where you heard that one from...

 

[Bishop76]

My problem with IX really just boils down to the look of it - when I played it, I didn't hate it (also didn't love it - it was a meh game for me), but both VII and VIII were really progressively getting more and more photorealistic (for a JRPG anyway) and it just felt like a step backwards to me to go with the super deformed cartoon look they did.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

The 'chibi' style does nothing for me, either. When people take issue to that I never bother defending it; I feel the same.

Its backgrounds are superb, though, but then, VII's and VIII's are as well.

 

[froot]

Agreed that FF8 gameplay was... uh... weird. The story was weird, too, but sort of charming. And, IMO, it looked snazzy. And yes, Triple Triad > > > > > > > > Tetra Master.

My guess with the "chibi" look in FF9 was that they were attempting to go back to their 2D sprite days, since the game had a very old-school, FF1 sort of vibe. It's no accident that they dressed Dagger in a standard White Mage cloak in one of the early cutscenes, or gave Eiko a summoner's horn.

However, given the limitations of the PS1 hardware, the "chibi" characters did not come across well at all in gameplay, so I have to agree with you guys there. Their giant heads with the low-res textures looked absolutely strange. It might have been better if they had held it over for PS2.

Anyway, I really enjoyed 9, overall. I liked the world. Was a little miffed that they blocked off dang near every town on the final disc, though.

And wow, I had no idea the translations were still a bit rough in FF8 (you'll have to forgive me; I don't want to embarrass myself by using the Roman numerals and getting them mixed up.) May I ask where they really messed up? I didn't know there were no official translation teams back then, either! I worked at a place that published low-budget games, and our sorry little QA department was often the last line of defense for glaring grammatical issues that came from poor translation. I can't imagine a big studio or publisher working that way! How funny.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Before anything else, let me start by saying I'm flat-out exhausted and I'm about to hit the sack after this, so if my writing is a bit off... well, I'll swing by in the morning to provide more coherent answers.

Agreed that FF8 gameplay was... uh... weird. The story was weird, too, but sort of charming. And, IMO, it looked snazzy. And yes, Triple Triad > > > > > > > > Tetra Master.

Triad > Master in a heartbeat, oh yeah.

My guess with the "chibi" look in FF9 was that they were attempting to go back to their 2D sprite days, since the game had a very old-school, FF1 sort of vibe. It's no accident that they dressed Dagger in a standard White Mage cloak in one of the early cutscenes, or gave Eiko a summoner's horn.

Nor Vivi's entire look and all the black mages, nor 'dragon knights', nor a return to medieval weaponry, nor the long-awaited full-blown return of moogles, nor kingdoms and castles and dungeons, nor the four 'elemental fiends' in a manner, nor 'Garland', nor... yeah, you get the picture. It was a very deliberate hearkening-back... and for a while during the production process, it was even going to be deemed a 'spinoff' of a sort with a lower budget and stuff. Then they decided they had a good thing going and went all-out with it.

At least... that's the story I always heard.

However, given the limitations of the PS1 hardware, the "chibi" characters did not come across well at all in gameplay, so I have to agree with you guys there. Their giant heads with the low-res textures looked absolutely strange. It might have been better if they had held it over for PS2.

Certainly, but IX through XI were actually all announced at once and FFX was already in production while IX was. X was bred to be the long-simmered pot of PS2 awesome graphically for a long time.

Anyway, I really enjoyed 9, overall. I liked the world. Was a little miffed that they blocked off dang near every town on the final disc, though.

Yeah, limitations of final discs what with all the space usually being devoted to the lengthy ending animations and the like.

FFVIII did a similar thing. 'Time compression' was actually a much guiltier party; many of IX's locations (the main kingdoms, etc.) were still available on the fourth disc.

And wow, I had no idea the translations were still a bit rough in FF8 (you'll have to forgive me; I don't want to embarrass myself by using the Roman numerals and getting them mixed up.) May I ask where they really messed up? I didn't know there were no official translation teams back then, either! I worked at a place that published low-budget games, and our sorry little QA department was often the last line of defense for glaring grammatical issues that came from poor translation. I can't imagine a big studio or publisher working that way! How funny.

One thing that's drawn a lot of controversy over the years is Edea's speech at the end of the first disc. That's a really well-known example. The translators took a great deal of... erm, liberty with their localization at that point and Edea ends up coming off as one-dimensional and the Galbadian crowd is totally ridiculous.

The good lady starts spouting things like 'AHAHAHA... FOOLISH WRETCHES. WRITHE IN AGONY' (okay, that's not exactly it, but I'm exhausted) and the whole crowd in the CG is cheering merrily and welcoming her. When she slays the president in front of them the implication is that they're okay with that in both versions; power is rising all the more. But when she goes on and on about how they're insects and worthless and she'll enjoy watching them die, and they keep cheering... yeah, that's now how it was supposed to go.

In the Japanese version, she says none of that, speaking instead more thoroughly of the succession of witches and how it will give them all great might. Certainly something less... threatening to them directly.

 

[backstept]

speaking of time compression . . . Xenogears went from fun RPG action on disc 1 to basically character interviews on disc 2 :P
it sucks how they were rushed towards the end . . . I would have loved to play the major events that were merely referenced by Fei and Elly

 

[Angel4576]

One thing that's drawn a lot of controversy over the years is Edea's speech at the end of the first disc. That's a really well-known example. The translators took a great deal of... erm, liberty with their localization at that point and Edea ends up coming off as one-dimensional and the Galbadian crowd is totally ridiculous.

I played through that sequence less than a week ago, and the dialogue was...erm, laughable. Still, it didn't really bug me that much, just amused me. They'd made Edea out to be this uber-tyrant, and then they had her resort to effectively scooby-doo dialogue!

Still, I'm loving VIII. It might be because I haven't played VI or VII for ages, but I'm not havng any problems with the gameplay, I'm enjoying it thoroughly.

I've managed to dig out my old game guide book so I'm using that as I go through. Just got to the Centra Ruins, and got promptly stiffed by the guide. It told me that Odin would join my party after the counter reaches 0 (there's a 20 minute time limit) - so I used the time I had to rape him for Death, Triple and Stop magic. At the end of the time, instead of joining my party he just wiped us out with one move.....GAME OVER.......!

I'll have another go at lunch. I transferred the save file over to the PSP so another crack at it beckons!

I see that they're releasing FFIII on the iPhone shortly. Hopefully it'll make its way to PSN eventually, I want them all in one place, on the PS3's HD - I's released soon, as is II, and then IV's coming in a few months and we already have VII, VIII and IX. Shame we're never likely to see X and XII....

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

speaking of time compression . . . Xenogears went from fun RPG action on disc 1 to basically character interviews on disc 2 :P
it sucks how they were rushed towards the end . . . I would have loved to play the major events that were merely referenced by Fei and Elly

Oh yeah, they got crunch-timed by the studio and never had half the budget VII and VIII's projects were given. I never actually disliked the way the second disc operated, though... especially since it's not like you never went anywhere again or anything. But there are definitely a few scenes I'd have preferred happened in, er, 'real time'...

One thing that's drawn a lot of controversy over the years is Edea's speech at the end of the first disc. That's a really well-known example. The translators took a great deal of... erm, liberty with their localization at that point and Edea ends up coming off as one-dimensional and the Galbadian crowd is totally ridiculous.

I played through that sequence less than a week ago, and the dialogue was...erm, laughable. Still, it didn't really bug me that much, just amused me. They'd made Edea out to be this uber-tyrant, and then they had her resort to effectively scooby-doo dialogue!

Still, I'm loving VIII. It might be because I haven't played VI or VII for ages, but I'm not havng any problems with the gameplay, I'm enjoying it thoroughly.

I've managed to dig out my old game guide book so I'm using that as I go through. Just got to the Centra Ruins, and got promptly stiffed by the guide. It told me that Odin would join my party after the counter reaches 0 (there's a 20 minute time limit) - so I used the time I had to rape him for Death, Triple and Stop magic. At the end of the time, instead of joining my party he just wiped us out with one move.....GAME OVER.......!

I'll have another go at lunch. I transferred the save file over to the PSP so another crack at it beckons!

I see that they're releasing FFIII on the iPhone shortly. Hopefully it'll make its way to PSN eventually, I want them all in one place, on the PS3's HD - I's released soon, as is II, and then IV's coming in a few months and we already have VII, VIII and IX. Shame we're never likely to see X and XII....

I wish I could remember how that Centra Ruins thing worked, I do. I recall that that's where you get another GF, Tonberry King, though. I owned the strategy guide for the longest time and I'm irked that I don't know what happened to it, but when you've traveled as much as I have these things are to be expected.

As for games outside of VII through IX being released for PSN... I'd say it's doubtful, but with Square, never impossible. The PSN tends to release original titles and Playstation One titles -- nothing from beforehand. Granted, they could release Final Fantasy Anthology and you'd get V and VI, but that particular port is very subpar compared to, say, the GBA ports.

Regarding X and XII, I'd say we'll get something quite good on those, yet. The HD port craze for the PS3 has just begun; the God of War games have gotten the facelift, a few more are currently slated, and there are a lot of rumors going around that both Final Fantasy and Metal Gear -- two hugely successful series -- are next up.

This means PS2 titles bumped up to gorgeous 1080p and playable on the PS3, usually for a decent price and bundled with another game in the series. Nothing totally substantiated has cropped up yet, but if you look around the net, there are multiple sites 'sensing' the impending announcement of something for FF!

 

[Angel4576]

I wish I could remember how that Centra Ruins thing worked, I do. I recall that that's where you get another GF, Tonberry King, though. I owned the strategy guide for the longest time and I'm irked that I don't know what happened to it, but when you've traveled as much as I have these things are to be expected.

Even without the guide that's some impressive memory!

Yeah, you get two at the Centra Ruins - first off you get Odin, and then straight after that fight you get attacked by the Tonberry King. Can't wait for that one, he's got 75,000HP!

As for games outside of VII through IX being released for PSN... I'd say it's doubtful, but with Square, never impossible. The PSN tends to release original titles and Playstation One titles -- nothing from beforehand. Granted, they could release Final Fantasy Anthology and you'd get V and VI, but that particular port is very subpar compared to, say, the GBA ports.

VII, VIII and IX were always going to be the big ones for me as they, to me, represent the golden age of FF and Square. That being said, I'm a completist. I think you're right, I can see an 'anthology' release coming at some point so we'll get V and VI. We've already got I and (soon) II. I'm sure I saw a reference somewhere that IV's coming as well. That would only leave III. I'd be gutted if I manage to get them all bar one!

Regarding X and XII, I'd say we'll get something quite good on those, yet. The HD port craze for the PS3 has just begun; the God of War games have gotten the facelift, a few more are currently slated, and there are a lot of rumors going around that both Final Fantasy and Metal Gear -- two hugely successful series -- are next up.

This means PS2 titles bumped up to gorgeous 1080p and playable on the PS3, usually for a decent price and bundled with another game in the series. Nothing totally substantiated has cropped up yet, but if you look around the net, there are multiple sites 'sensing' the impending announcement of something for FF!

I think, beyond getting VII, VIII and IX, ports of X and XII would just about be the cherry on top of the cake - I'd finally be able to get rid of my old PS2!

I must admit, I hadn't thought of the HD Porting route. I'd only considered a straight emulated release of X and XII, which with the lack of backwards compatibility, is never going to happen. But yes, HD-porting, now there's a definite possibility.

I have to admit, should they announce HD versions of X and XII bundled, that would instantly become my most anticipated release of the year! Moreso than Versus and XIII-2.

I'm off to do some 'digging' now to check out the rumours!

 

[BigFoot]

Yeah I'd love to play X and XII again in HD.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

I wish I could remember how that Centra Ruins thing worked, I do. I recall that that's where you get another GF, Tonberry King, though. I owned the strategy guide for the longest time and I'm irked that I don't know what happened to it, but when you've traveled as much as I have these things are to be expected.

Even without the guide that's some impressive memory!

Yeah, you get two at the Centra Ruins - first off you get Odin, and then straight after that fight you get attacked by the Tonberry King. Can't wait for that one, he's got 75,000HP!

You actually have to mud-wrestle a bunch of tonberries in order to make their king show up. Wait, did I say mud-wrestle? That's odd. This is what happens when I haven't had my morning tea.

You need to fight a bunch of them to lure him out. You can technically attempt this from the moment you step foot into the Centra Ruins, but with the timer and all, it's obviously best to wait until after you tackle Odin.

And yeah, he's a monster.

VII, VIII and IX were always going to be the big ones for me as they, to me, represent the golden age of FF and Square. That being said, I'm a completist. I think you're right, I can see an 'anthology' release coming at some point so we'll get V and VI. We've already got I and (soon) II. I'm sure I saw a reference somewhere that IV's coming as well. That would only leave III. I'd be gutted if I manage to get them all bar one!

IV is coming to the PSP, actually, and when I mentioned an 'anthology' I was specifically referring to the PSX title 'Final Fantasy Anthology' from 1999, which has both V and VI in it. Unfortunately, it was a very weak couple of ports overall. Slow-down was a big problem with VI at times and V could crash in several key areas...

I must admit, I hadn't thought of the HD Porting route. I'd only considered a straight emulated release of X and XII, which with the lack of backwards compatibility, is never going to happen. But yes, HD-porting, now there's a definite possibility.

I have to admit, should they announce HD versions of X and XII bundled, that would instantly become my most anticipated release of the year! Moreso than Versus and XIII-2.

I'm off to do some 'digging' now to check out the rumours!

Yeah, I'd be stoked. I know X and XII are worth playing again and I'm not so sure about Versus or especially XIII-2, a game I haven't even decided if I'll buy.

 

[Angel4576]

You actually have to mud-wrestle a bunch of tonberries in order to make their king show up. Wait, did I say mud-wrestle? That's odd. This is what happens when I haven't had my morning tea.

You need to fight a bunch of them to lure him out. You can technically attempt this from the moment you step foot into the Centra Ruins, but with the timer and all, it's obviously best to wait until after you tackle Odin.

And yeah, he's a monster.

Given the time limit I kept escaping fights until Odin so technically haven't fought any tonberries yet. That may take a while after Odin then!

IV is coming to the PSP, actually, and when I mentioned an 'anthology' I was specifically referring to the PSX title 'Final Fantasy Anthology' from 1999, which has both V and VI in it. Unfortunately, it was a very weak couple of ports overall. Slow-down was a big problem with VI at times and V could crash in several key areas...

Yeah, I don't have a problem with IV being on the PSP - let's me get use out of it. 'Anthology' I knew of, but haven't played, but ultimately I guess I'd take a questionable port over nothing. In this instance at least.

Yeah, I'd be stoked. I know X and XII are worth playing again and I'm not so sure about Versus or especially XIII-2, a game I haven't even decided if I'll buy.

I have concerns over both Versus and XIII-2 - the former including cars, guns etc, looks more aligned to reality than previous versions. XIII-2, well, depends on what you got out of XIII I guess. A lot of people hated it, will it be more of the same? Who knows. I didn't mind XIII myself, but I wouldn't want another game along those lines.

X was brilliant, and I still haven't played XII, so that for me would effectively be a whole new HD FF game, awesome!

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Versus looks like it has more potential to me because I'm the kind of gamer whose first glance is to the title's writer (probably has something to do with my love of certain television series, which is evidenced by my being here...) and I prefer Versus' writer since I didn't much care for XIII's script and XIII-2's being done by that guy.

Versus also looks absolutely beautiful, too, but beauty of that nature is sometimes skin-deep indeed. I look forward to seeing what all those years of the game being in development crank out regarding everything else -- the story, the characters, the gameplay, the everything.