JRPG enthusiasts: When (if ever) did Square 'fall off' for you?
- Thread starter Quinton O'Connor
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I think, after XI, I didn't have high hopes for XIV anyway. and whilst XII and XIII may have been a little meh in the grand scheme of things, VI - X have bought enough goodwill from me that I'll stick with the franchise for a while yet. Eventually they'll have to refind the magic formula again, even if they have to stumble across it. The prospect of VI-X style storytelling and gameplay combined with XIII style graphics, is absolutely mouthwatering.
Incentally, looks like Xenogears is coming to PSN - Link
Incentally, looks like Xenogears is coming to PSN - Link
when X came out, I thought, "Meh a little linear and short, but "new technology" "
when XII came out i was like "Ok, an offline MMO, not my thing, but each FF game has played a little differently"
I rented XIII and feel glad I just rented, 60 hours of walking down a hallways fighting a few battles then a cutscene, then a Look behind you, a "hidden" treasure chest, lather, rinse, repeat with no clue what the hell is going on and limited character development in the face of 500,000+ hp bosses, removal of Uematsu's brilliant scores for default battle busic type 3 didn't help, I'll rent the next few FF games, but unless SE shapes up, I think I'm gonna wash my hands of the FF series
when XII came out i was like "Ok, an offline MMO, not my thing, but each FF game has played a little differently"
I rented XIII and feel glad I just rented, 60 hours of walking down a hallways fighting a few battles then a cutscene, then a Look behind you, a "hidden" treasure chest, lather, rinse, repeat with no clue what the hell is going on and limited character development in the face of 500,000+ hp bosses, removal of Uematsu's brilliant scores for default battle busic type 3 didn't help, I'll rent the next few FF games, but unless SE shapes up, I think I'm gonna wash my hands of the FF series
I'm not really sure if Square "fell off" or if I did. In recent years I've become rather anti-RPG to the point where even classic RPGs (Final Fantasy IV, VI, Phantasy Star IV, Earthbound, etc.) bore me to tears. I don't know if Square is any better or worse than they were during their golden age -- their games seem the same to me.
I think that FFIX is the last "true" JRPG in the series. 8 and 10, 12, and 13 are too linear and cinematic, IMHO. and I don't even LIKE FFIX, (I don't care for the characters or story), so I would say FFVII is the end of the FF series golden age. That said, I personally love the story and characters in both 8 AND 10, but even I have to admit the gameplay in 8 is DEEPLY flawed, almost to the point of being broken. And I still hate that FFX doesn't have a world map, and I detest the sphere grid.
Now, if we are talking Sqeenix JRPG's as a whole? I can tell you from personal play their stuff on the DS is exceptional, like the last couple Dragon Quest games and the 3D remakes of FF3 and F4.
Now, if we are talking Sqeenix JRPG's as a whole? I can tell you from personal play their stuff on the DS is exceptional, like the last couple Dragon Quest games and the 3D remakes of FF3 and F4.
It seems like the bubble has burst on Japanese gaming in general and even anime and so on. I know there are people still into it but it doesn't seem to be nearly the phenomenon it once was.
^ Watching anime definitely seems to have fallen out of vogue, but the anime art style has forever become a part of our media, IMO.
FF13 broke my heart, much as I like Lightning.
FF14 went ahead and smashed what was left into one thousand tiny pieces. I played 11 for two years and loved it, and really wanted 14 to succeed. However, Squeenix learned zero lessons from 11 and WoW. Shame.
So, I guess it all "fell off" in 2009-2010 for me. However, I will never forget FF7.
I wouldn't be happily married without it!
FF13 broke my heart, much as I like Lightning.
FF14 went ahead and smashed what was left into one thousand tiny pieces. I played 11 for two years and loved it, and really wanted 14 to succeed. However, Squeenix learned zero lessons from 11 and WoW. Shame.
So, I guess it all "fell off" in 2009-2010 for me. However, I will never forget FF7.
I wouldn't be happily married without it!
S
Stone_Cold_Sisko
Guest
I feel like the magic was gone after FFX (which I thought was great). First was 11 which was a (mediocre) MMO, then was XII which I thought was interesting... I liked the gameplay but was bored by its pedestrian story. 13, well, we all know what that's all about.
Lots to reply to, wow.
Yeah, I sort of doubt it. Motomu Toriyama directed FFX-2's story, which I disliked. He went on to direct FFXIII, with a story I disliked set against the backdrop of a world I found a tad intriguing. He's slated to direct XIII-2 so the track record isn't much to go by for me, personally.
Same here!
Yeah, I sort of doubt it. Motomu Toriyama directed FFX-2's story, which I disliked. He went on to direct FFXIII, with a story I disliked set against the backdrop of a world I found a tad intriguing. He's slated to direct XIII-2 so the track record isn't much to go by for me, personally.
Same here!
Wouldn't have thought that I was to be honest, but then I realised, years after the fact that it was those aspects that I enjoyed most about the games (VII, VIII, IX and X).
Mm, fair enough.
Oh man, the CGI on AC is ridiculously good though, isn't it? If nothing else that's some serious eye candy.
I rather strongly dislike the Xenosaga series. I might inquire as to how far into Xenogears you made it to, or did you finish it? That game is the Babylon 5 of JRPGs. It's a slow burn for a while and some parts even later on do drag, but if you ask me, its good parts are ridiculously good.
My reaction to Xenosaga is that the producers tried to mimic the original's success against the space setting and with a new cast but neither the premise nor especially the cast did much for me. I think my tolerance for what I deem as over-the-top melodrama is a lot higher with text box games than with those that are voice-acted; I can imagine the line delivery in a nicer light in the former. A lot of Xenosaga's scenes really grated on me, even though there were definitely a few crowning moments.
It is, isn't it? I love the thought. The thing that keeps me rather apathetic lately is that simple fact that Square are visual masters but the time it takes to deliver those visuals these days is staggering. Square will spend over half a decade on a title if possible and you'd hope that means they're committed to delivering a crazy good story while they're at it, but (imo, imo) it seems it's just getting every single palm frond up to a full 1080p that they're spending most of their time on.
Yeah, I know. And I'm going to buy it, just so I'm supporting it. A fat lot of good that will do; much of the development team has moved on and, honestly, these are also the same people responsible for Chrono Trigger which a stronger success. If there's no Chrono game past Cross and some of the old developers are spinning up that Wii title, Xenoblade, for another company... the odds of Square doing much with my favorite game's universe are slim at best.
A hugely streamlined experience if ever there were one. My goodness, eh?
I kept up with the interviews while the game was development, ever the sceptic from the moment I learned Toriyama was directing. I had limited hopes for the game but I found certain lines intriguing; producer Yoshinori Kitase once said he envisioned the game's storytelling method as 'LOST meets Final Fantasy'. I didn't have much faith in the writer (Toriyama) to pull that off but it kindled some interest.
Unfortunately, I don't feel like it was quite pulled off. For one thing the script was just as bad as I dreaded.
A lot of people cite IX as the end of the first era and X as the dawn of the second era. Dramatic terms for a video game series, no doubt, but I agree with them. At the same time, FFX can be viewed as the end of an era as well; it was the last game guided by series creator Hironobu Sakaguchi before he left the company. (Although IX was the last game that was truly his; he had a lot more impact on that one.)
I certainly wouldn't classify FFXII as linear and restrictive, though. If anything it went rather too far for my liking on the Final Fantasy nonlinearity scale. I enjoy a degree of push in the right direction for the sake of the narrative if a game's narrative is worthy of such push. There are exceptions -- Mass Effect wouldn't be what makes it so grand without all those options -- but for something like FFXII, I really felt like its biggest flaw was the lack of momentum.
I haven't played through any of the new remakes (or DQIX for that matter) but I'd love to. FFIII has a nice remake but I never much cared for the game. I'd rather just play FFV, if you get my drift. As for IV, a nice remake as well but I prefer the characters' voices 'in my head' over what we were given in that department and I prefer the 2D style over what we were given in that department.
Still, good games.
Final Fantasy 12 is my all time favorite RPG.
Final Fantasy 13 was horrible and I couldn't be bothered to finish it.
So, somewhere between 2006 and 2009 I guess!
I've encountered some very passionate FFXII fans in my time, so rest assured while it might sometimes feel otherwise you're certainly not alone. Me, I like the game well enough. I definitely prefer it over any other big project Square has done since the merging. I feel like it comes off as unfinished, though, and its storyline takes a nosedive no single-player title in the series had suffered from since the earliest days in which the writers actually tried for a compelling tale.
Next to FFXIII, though, oh yeah, I quite enjoyed it. I want to get my hands on FFXII: Zodiac Job System sometime.
^ Watching anime definitely seems to have fallen out of vogue, but the anime art style has forever become a part of our media, IMO.
FF13 broke my heart, much as I like Lightning.
FF14 went ahead and smashed what was left into one thousand tiny pieces. I played 11 for two years and loved it, and really wanted 14 to succeed. However, Squeenix learned zero lessons from 11 and WoW. Shame.
I've never touched either XI or XIV and yet I'd be willing to go out on a bit of a limb and say I'm one of the biggest Square RPG fans on TrekBBS hands down. That's how little I care for MMOs.
So, I guess it all "fell off" in 2009-2010 for me. However, I will never forget FF7.
My two best friends were married over Xenogears, which was in production at about the same time. They met over GameFAQs, met in-person a few times, realized the attraction was true and things went from there.
What's your story?
XII is such a walking contradiction. I love it for its gameplay, its rich world, its excellent translation, its better-than-usual villains, its intriguing heroes (specifically Balthier and Basch, although if Ashelia would lose the inappropriate 'hot pink miniskirt' look she'd be better, too) and that whole Ivalician feel. (Since FFT is one of my two favorite games of all time, it's hard not to get excited about FFXII's PS2 engine bringing that world to life.)
I hate it for its pedestrian story after a certain point. I feel like there's a lot of momentum riding from about a couple of hours into the game up until the short trek on the Shiva. Then it falls apart, then it picks back up again for a while, then it falls apart again, then it's pretty good from Archades through Giruvegan, then it falls apart again and the finale is frustratingly mediocre.
In short, its nonlinear tendencies and a dissatisfying conclusion hurt its legacy for me.
Wow, I think I just realized something big. Final Fantasy XII is Star Trek: Voyager.
I never finished Xenogears, but I made it pretty far in. I remember getting to a desert and some character magically survived something which was supposed to kill him (which always turns me off of any story)... I think it was the desert pirate guy or whatever... but beyond that, it just wasn't gripping enough for me. Sorry I can't be more specific about anything - my memory for games close to 15 years old that I didn't like isn't the best...
I liked the cinematic nature of Xenosaga even though most people didn't and I thought the characters, while roughly voice acted, were more compelling than those in Xenogears. But again, fuzzy memory of Xenogears...
I liked the cinematic nature of Xenosaga even though most people didn't and I thought the characters, while roughly voice acted, were more compelling than those in Xenogears. But again, fuzzy memory of Xenogears...
If that's what I think it is -- Bart and crew surviving the destruction of the Yggdrassil at the hands of the mysterious being inside the 'red gear' -- then you were actually about 20% of the way into the game. It's well-known for being the longest RPG Square ever cranked out, actually.
There's a pretty solid explanation for how Bart lived but you'd have to read a huge book called "Perfect Works". It's a masterful fount of information for the Xenogears diehard (after all, it's quite the cult game) but yeah, if you weren't feeling the game at that point... well, it gets a hell of a lot better later on, but best not to dwell. I'd say you gave it a fair shake.
If you'd beaten Xenogears I hypothesize you'd change your mind, although it's merely a matter of opinions so of course I could be wrong. Xenogears' cast gets crazy good during the back half of the game but it's so long you'd need to stick it in for the long haul. Obviously you'd do best to just keep loving the stuff you love and forget about it... it's been fifteen years.
That game is so great about foreshadowing, though. Man, I wanna play it again now!
Yeah, that's the bit - I played for a little bit beyond that, but not much. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Bart sacrifice himself so you could escape and then return a little later? I think that's what bothered me story-wise. I generally think if a character sacrifices himself, they should probably have to stay dead.
I think the length is what did it in for me too - I felt like I had been playing if forever at that point. It just felt poorly paced to me. I had the same problem with a recent WRPG, Dragon Age, which I thought dragged on for FAR too long.
Naw, he hadn't sacrificed himself. The being in the red gear fought him head-to-head and wiped the floor with him but he got away. Sigurd and Citan were on the Yggdrassil and Sigurd told Citan to get away; he also stated he'd hold out as long as possible but 'there's a pretty good chance this is it'. Never really said 'this is it' or anything. Believe me, I hate it when that sort of stuff happens too!
The pacing is pretty poor for a long time; not gonna lie. I think it's just one of those things where once you've beaten it once (and provided you arrive at a conclusion remotely similar to mine) you can deal with the shoddiness early on because you know full well the story is going somewhere marvelous. It's kind of like how I was cringing during some early episodes of Babylon 5 but now I know it gets awesome so in the future I won't have as hard a time persevering.
Xenogears... becomes appreciated in subsequent plays because you realize how much time the writer devoted to world-building. It's, uh, it's got a rocky first season!
The pacing is pretty poor for a long time; not gonna lie. I think it's just one of those things where once you've beaten it once (and provided you arrive at a conclusion remotely similar to mine) you can deal with the shoddiness early on because you know full well the story is going somewhere marvelous. It's kind of like how I was cringing during some early episodes of Babylon 5 but now I know it gets awesome so in the future I won't have as hard a time persevering.
Xenogears... becomes appreciated in subsequent plays because you realize how much time the writer devoted to world-building. It's, uh, it's got a rocky first season!
I find that's more of a problem with the Star Ocean series than FF to be honest.
Re Xenogears, I'm intruiged. Never played it back in the day, never got released over here. It'll probably end up on the European PS store, but no word yet, despite a NA release. Fingers crossed. If it comes out, I'll pick it up.
Xenogears has a long and tenuous history regarding a lack of presence in Europe so I wish you luck on that one. I truly do.
Hope you like it, should you get it. I'll tell you what, though; if all else fails, ask me once it looks certain you'll never get it on the PS store and I'll ship you an NTSC PlayStation and a copy of the game for free. I have a couple of both!
Hope you like it, should you get it. I'll tell you what, though; if all else fails, ask me once it looks certain you'll never get it on the PS store and I'll ship you an NTSC PlayStation and a copy of the game for free. I have a couple of both!
