I thought those three episodes were superb. One of the only three 10/10's I've awarded as of yet was given to one of 'em.
star's Journey into the World of DS9...
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Ah, I see. When Winn showed up you thought that it was going to be a science/crazy-religious-dogma episode, like TNG's Who Watches The Watchers, but the episode turned into a conflict between extremists and moderates, which was less offensive.
I thought most people liked season 2's opening. Some people don't like those episodes because they focus on Bajoran politics and there's a sizeable group of fans that find Bajor stories boring, but I thought they were in the minority.
At least, on this forum they seem to be.
Definitely, according to this poll: http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=119051I thought most people liked season 2's opening. Some people don't like those episodes because they focus on Bajoran politics and there's a sizeable group of fans that find Bajor stories boring, but I thought they were in the minority.
It's generally difficult to judge whether certain plotlines, episodes and characters are really hated among the majority of the fans of a TV show, or just among a very vocal minority. As a rule, people who bitch about something tend to talk about it a lot more often than those who like it, and the latter usually only get more vocal in response to the former.
I'm not Star, but I'd say it's more like, more true to life, in my opinion--though I still think the episode left something to be desired in that I think there were things Sisko and Keiko could've done that would've absolutely shot Winn's credibility while still maintaining academic freedom.
Religion in real life isn't all one thing or all the other like it was portrayed in "Who Watches the Watchers"...the real struggle is indeed between extremists and moderates, and rarely do the moderates ever get paid attention to--simply because like Bareil, they're not obnoxious. Getting to see that accurately shown did help keep the episode from becoming a disaster.
I thought most people liked season 2's opening. Some people don't like those episodes because they focus on Bajoran politics and there's a sizeable group of fans that find Bajor stories boring, but I thought they were in the minority.
That's who I was referring to - the minority that find the Bajoran stories boring. But, like DevilEyes said, they're a very vocal minority.
I, for one, am in the majority. I find all the political conflicts very dramatic and entertaining.
I'm enjoying star's reviews...as well as Jeff O'Connor's...
Keep them up!
I'm actually inclined to go back to DS9 myself. (In viewing, not reviewing...)
Thanks. I'm sure we both appreciate your kind words. Have fun!
I'm enjoying star's reviews...as well as Jeff O'Connor's...
Keep them up!
I'm actually inclined to go back to DS9 myself. (In viewing, not reviewing...
Thanks. I'm sure we both appreciate your kind words. Have fun!
Thanks!
I'm thinking too, that it might be interesting as well, since I'm a woman and Jeff O'Connor is decidedly not. LOL A sort of "He Said She Said" of DS9, perhaps? TheGodBen: Correct. And since it turned out not to be a commentary on religion but on fanatism (which exists outside of religion as well), the episode became interesting and well rounded for me.
Nerys Ghemor: Absolutely agree with you on how Keiko and Ben handled some of it too. But then, as I watched the episode it very much asked the question of what is the right way to handle a situation like this? Even out here in the real world, we still haven't found the right balance that makes everyone on both sides of the argument comfortable. And where our children are involved, we all have even stronger feelings about what is or is not appropriate in public schools.
And as a moderate myself, I tend to find that it is frustrating to be judged based on how fanatics behave. But then, I suppose it really is because the moderates are not "in your face" like extremists.
Again... had I not seen "Duet" before this episode, I might have even given it a higher rating. But "Duet" was so powerful, that "In the Hands of Prophets" didn't quite earn a full score.
I am very interested to watch more. And I have a feeling that I'll like the Bajor-centric season openers. I found that the episodes that I liked best this first season dealt strongly with Kira/Bajorans or the issues they were dealing with post-occupation.
Thanks again for following my reviews! It's fun to share the journey with all of you.
Judging by what you have posted so far, I think you will like them as well. As you have already surmised, most of the strongest material in DS9's first couple of seasons deals pretty heavily with Kira and/or the situation surrounding the Cardassian occupation of Bajor.
From what I have been able to observe, this seems to be the pivot point that determines whether a particular fan of DS9 thinks the show comes into its own in late season 1/early season 2 or later on in seasons 3 and 4 when the show integrates more of an action-adventure style. Kira herself is fairly polarizing, especially in the early seasons, with many fans such as myself who identify with the character from the beginning, while others find her incredibly grating and insufferable. Doubtless the character is written to produce this type of dual response, so anyway, it definitely works
Similarly, some fans find that the issues surrounding the Bajoran occupation resonate in fascinating ways with many real world scenarios, while others simply do not tune in to Star Trek to hear about this kind of thing. And so on.
To be fair, if you really like Quark and Odo, that can also illuminate seasons 1 and 2 in your favor, since they are quite strong characters from the beginning (though they don't drive as many of the main storylines).
Part of what makes DS9 such a great show in the long run is that the writers are able to integrate the type of themes that dominate the early seasons with a more traditional sci-fi action/adventure style in the later seasons, thus satisfying both types of fan.
I'm looking forward to reading your season 2 reviews
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Thanks!
Haha, alright! I am most assuredly male, so I think you're quite right on that one.
Thanks!
Haha, alright! I am most assuredly male, so I think you're quite right on that one.
Well, I was hoping that the little gender sign under your username was actually accurate.
Alright, now I've got to complain...
NETFLIX SAID THAT MY DS9 DVDs WOULD BE HERE TODAY BUT THEY'RE NOT!!! 
Guess I'll just have to wait until tomorrow to start season 2. *sigh* And tonight was a perfect night for a mini DS9 marathon.
Oh, I'm filling out that survey, Netflix, just you wait. I'm gonna tell you that it took longer to ship my stuff than you projected. HA! Take THAT!
The opening trilogy is worth the wait, IMO. But yes, you tell that Netflix!
I hope Netflix gets you the DVDs soon. I'm still anxious to hear your thoughts on the opening of Season Two.
Actually I've had them in my hot little hands for nearly a week now, but a combination of real life and my writing muse gracing me with her presence again has made it difficult to make time for DS9.
Ironically, though. I was about to put the first dvd in right after I checked the forum. So I'll be back in a bit with a review or four.
Ironically, though. I was about to put the first dvd in right after I checked the forum. So I'll be back in a bit with a review or four.
Alright... 2nd season, here I come!
The Homecoming/The Circle
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥- (9/10)
(I was going to do all the premiere at once, but when I saw that the story wasn't finished with these two, I figured I'd better start reviewing. LOL)
The good: Excellent at showing how unstable the Bajoran government is. Excellent villians and I like the reluctant "legend" as well.
The bad: The only part that sort of grated on me was that scene in the first ep in Kira's quarters when everyone came to say goodbye -- it was great with just Odo, but when the others show up... meh. It was a little over the top (and really, why doesn't Bashir what the heck is happening?)
The zany: Deputizing Quark. ROFL!
Summary: Intrigue, religion, xenophobia... oh and serious sexual tension between that Vedek dude (his name escapes me at the moment) and Kira. Yowza! LOL Excellent.
Now I have to watch the rest! So help me... I ain't gettin' much sleep tonight.
The Seige
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥-- (8/10)
The good: The General. I really liked him. Very smart guy.
The bad: Quark selling seats. I know that it's a Ferengi taking an opportunity... but I could have lived without most of the scenes regarding it. Basically, I would have been fine if the first I learned of it was when he was brought to Sisko over it.
The zany:
QUARK: I can't leave it. It's all that I am. My personal mementos, my family album.
BASHIR: It's filled with gold-pressed latinum and you know it.
QUARK: Who told you?
BASHIR: Your mother did. The day you were born.
QUARK: Never make fun of a Ferengi's mother! Rule of Acquisition number thirty-one.
(Don't ask me why this scene works and the seat-selling doesn't... *shrug*)
Summary: A little bit anti-climatic -- but only enough to lose one heart from the previous episodes. Wasn't suprised that Li dies. I did like when the general says, "Well played sir" to Li and Li has this expression like, "Huh? What'd I have to do with any of this?" Winn surprised me. Wasn't expecting her to support Kira -- especially considering the deal she made.
Now this is where you are going to tell me that they completely drop the Bareil/Kira tension thingy, huh? Not that I'm necessarily "shipping" but after all that lead up, at least a freaking kiss woulda been nice, you know? *grumbles*
All in all, probably one of the better Star Trek season openers I've seen. Great insight into what's going on with the Bajorans. I was glad for the little Gul Dukat cameo in the first episode. I really, really like him. He suits my affinity for evil yet alluring stuff in Trek.
Off to bed now! Toodles.
The Homecoming/The Circle
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥- (9/10)
(I was going to do all the premiere at once, but when I saw that the story wasn't finished with these two, I figured I'd better start reviewing. LOL)
The good: Excellent at showing how unstable the Bajoran government is. Excellent villians and I like the reluctant "legend" as well.
The bad: The only part that sort of grated on me was that scene in the first ep in Kira's quarters when everyone came to say goodbye -- it was great with just Odo, but when the others show up... meh. It was a little over the top (and really, why doesn't Bashir what the heck is happening?)
The zany: Deputizing Quark. ROFL!
Summary: Intrigue, religion, xenophobia... oh and serious sexual tension between that Vedek dude (his name escapes me at the moment) and Kira. Yowza! LOL Excellent.
Now I have to watch the rest! So help me... I ain't gettin' much sleep tonight.
The Seige
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥-- (8/10)
The good: The General. I really liked him. Very smart guy.
The bad: Quark selling seats. I know that it's a Ferengi taking an opportunity... but I could have lived without most of the scenes regarding it. Basically, I would have been fine if the first I learned of it was when he was brought to Sisko over it.
The zany:
QUARK: I can't leave it. It's all that I am. My personal mementos, my family album.
BASHIR: It's filled with gold-pressed latinum and you know it.
QUARK: Who told you?
BASHIR: Your mother did. The day you were born.
QUARK: Never make fun of a Ferengi's mother! Rule of Acquisition number thirty-one.
(Don't ask me why this scene works and the seat-selling doesn't... *shrug*)
Summary: A little bit anti-climatic -- but only enough to lose one heart from the previous episodes. Wasn't suprised that Li dies. I did like when the general says, "Well played sir" to Li and Li has this expression like, "Huh? What'd I have to do with any of this?" Winn surprised me. Wasn't expecting her to support Kira -- especially considering the deal she made.
Now this is where you are going to tell me that they completely drop the Bareil/Kira tension thingy, huh? Not that I'm necessarily "shipping" but after all that lead up, at least a freaking kiss woulda been nice, you know? *grumbles*
All in all, probably one of the better Star Trek season openers I've seen. Great insight into what's going on with the Bajorans. I was glad for the little Gul Dukat cameo in the first episode. I really, really like him. He suits my affinity for evil yet alluring stuff in Trek.
Off to bed now! Toodles.
Glad you liked them. They're certainly not the best of DS9, but I'd rank them pretty high. They definitely don't deserve all the bad press they get from the minority that inexplicably finds them boring.
As for Bareil/Kira.... I'm not exactly a fan of the pairing, as I find Bareil to be a rather lackluster character (especially compared to Kira), but it could be worse. Given all the characters they could have tried to pair her up with, Bareil was a good choice.
As for Bareil/Kira.... I'm not exactly a fan of the pairing, as I find Bareil to be a rather lackluster character (especially compared to Kira), but it could be worse. Given all the characters they could have tried to pair her up with, Bareil was a good choice.
I really like that scene. It's over the top, but it's fun and has some good one-liners in there. Other than that, I really like these episodes, the whole Circle Trilogy is a highlight of the first two seasons for me. It's a pity they killed off Li Nalis, he could have been interesting down the line, and it strikes me as yet another early mistake the writers made because they weren't thinking ahead. For example...
He could have become First Minister instead of Shakaar, it would have made more sense and it wouldn't come from nowhere like the Shakaar thing. It would have been very interesting seeing him have to share power with Winn.
...Instead, insult something he cares about.
I think that Winn could see the writing on the wall and was smart enough not to stick with the losing side. She may be a bit evil, but she's not stupid.
If you're really lucky, they might play a game of spring-ball together in the future.
I liked Kira/Bareil at the time
OK, I actually had a little crush on him back when I first watched the show, though my taste in men has somewhat changed with years. He may not have been the most dynamic partner for Kira, but he was what she needed at the time and it was a nice story for season 2: Kira had been damaged by her life of violence and someone gentle and spiritual like Bareil was able to appeal to the tender and loving part of her that had been buried for so long. Besides, as you said, he made more sense as her love interest than most other characters that they could have paired her up at the time. And I think it was waaaaaaay better than
Kira/Shakaar. First problem - zero chemistry. It's one of those cases - like Buffy/Riley on BtVS or Lee/Dee on BSG - where I always wonder if they purposefully paired up a main cast member with an actor they had no sexual chemistry whatsoever with, in order to drive home that it's a dull and safe relationship, or if they intended it to be a good and lasting romance, and only realized they had made a bad mistake and then decided to treat it as something that couldn't last. (If it's the former - great planning, if it's the latter - good damage control...)
But what's even worse here in DS9's case is that there was no attempt on the part of the writers to flesh out the relationship - ironically, perhaps because it made sense on the surface (Kira and Shakaar had a history and a lot in common as former Bajoran resistance fighters who had fought together for years) so why bother to focus on anything as obvious, right? It's the unlikely and odd couples that provide all the fun. But it didn't serve any character development for Kira at all, because there was no focus on her, instead it was all about Odo and his jealousy.
But what's even worse here in DS9's case is that there was no attempt on the part of the writers to flesh out the relationship - ironically, perhaps because it made sense on the surface (Kira and Shakaar had a history and a lot in common as former Bajoran resistance fighters who had fought together for years) so why bother to focus on anything as obvious, right? It's the unlikely and odd couples that provide all the fun. But it didn't serve any character development for Kira at all, because there was no focus on her, instead it was all about Odo and his jealousy.
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Oh you guys tempt me with your spoiler tags! But I obstain. I really want to watch this show as untainted as possible.
As for the Kira/Bareil... I didn't need a relationship per se... I just needed some closure there. When he first shows up at DS9, I'm like "cool." But in the garden when he walks up to her holy crap the tension! It just seemed like they worked hard to build it up only to forget about even tying up that loose string.
But that's a pretty common denominator in Trek (and many other television series). Too bad it's not a cliche yet that writers would scramble to avoid. *groans*
And I definitely think that they should have kept Li around. He would have made an interesting regular on the show, especially as he was coming to accept his role as a "legend."
As for the Kira/Bareil... I didn't need a relationship per se... I just needed some closure there. When he first shows up at DS9, I'm like "cool." But in the garden when he walks up to her holy crap the tension! It just seemed like they worked hard to build it up only to forget about even tying up that loose string.
But that's a pretty common denominator in Trek (and many other television series). Too bad it's not a cliche yet that writers would scramble to avoid. *groans*
And I definitely think that they should have kept Li around. He would have made an interesting regular on the show, especially as he was coming to accept his role as a "legend."
Don't worry... DS9 is much better than the other Treks at tying up loose strings, you just have to be patient.
As for spoiler tags, eh, trust me, this particular spoiler is nothing all that interesting, and it wouldn't mean that much to you at this point even if you read it. (Which doesn't mean you should read it.)
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