Excellent thread, would read again. Five stars.
I Hate Myself
- Thread starter Admiral Shran
- Start date
Excellent thread, would read again. Five stars.
Yeah, this thread is so good it was probably worth getting an infraction for. 
Brings whole new meaning to the term "ObamaCare."
Thank you.Sorry about the double post, but that is a classic.
Be sure to get the Special Edition DVD. I do a commentary track and there are behind-the-scenes photos.
I'm going to hold out for the Director's Cut with the reinsertion of the deleted scenes.
Admiral Shran, you should read Freud's books and learn about your unconscious.
^ Please, don't. The OP will only convince himself that he has an unconscious sexual fixation on his own mother, and his social anxiety will be get worse than it is now.
(just kidding. but I'm much more a fan of Jung than Freud in any case
)
(just kidding. but I'm much more a fan of Jung than Freud in any case
)
Cheapjack, what are you trying to advise me of here? That I should try to interact with a woman I have absolutely no interest in, either as a romantic partner or a friend, and simply use her to gain experience in talking to women I am interested in?
That sounds kinda cold-blooded, IMO. In fact, I once again a psychologist who suggested that very thing. When I told him that I wouldn't use somebody like that he told me to just do it anyway. It was shortly thereafter that I started looking for a new doctor.
That sounds kinda cold-blooded, IMO. In fact, I once again a psychologist who suggested that very thing. When I told him that I wouldn't use somebody like that he told me to just do it anyway. It was shortly thereafter that I started looking for a new doctor.
Hmmmm...
Your response raises a question: How do you decide whether you're interested in someone? Height? Weight? Eye color? Hot rumors about her sex life? She likes dogs? She hates gerbils?
You've made it very clear that you aren't basing your decisions on knowing anything about them.
You're not using people if you're casually socializing with them in a bar or at a party.
I have had conversations in a variety of social settings with people I never set eyes on again. I never felt like I was using them nor have I felt that they were using me.
^ I'll freely admit that what first sparks an interest in me is physical appearance. I think that's true for everyone. You don't become interested in someone you've never laid eyes on before because you know what their personality is like. How could you know such a thing?
However, looks aren't all I look for. If I found an unbelieveable attractive woman, actually spoke to her, and then found out that she has a completely unbearable or unappealing personality, that kills the interest dead in its tracks.
As for just socializing with people, I agree there's nothing wrong about that. But that doesn't appear to be what Cheapjack is talking about. He seems to be saying that I should pursue a woman, any woman, romantically with the full intention of dropping her at the earliest possible convienence or as soon as someone "better" comes along. That seems wrong, IMO.
Now, if that's not what Cheapjack is saying, then I apologize. I'm just trying to clear up what the advice actually is.
However, looks aren't all I look for. If I found an unbelieveable attractive woman, actually spoke to her, and then found out that she has a completely unbearable or unappealing personality, that kills the interest dead in its tracks.
As for just socializing with people, I agree there's nothing wrong about that. But that doesn't appear to be what Cheapjack is talking about. He seems to be saying that I should pursue a woman, any woman, romantically with the full intention of dropping her at the earliest possible convienence or as soon as someone "better" comes along. That seems wrong, IMO.
Now, if that's not what Cheapjack is saying, then I apologize. I'm just trying to clear up what the advice actually is.
It's true for me. If I don't find someone physically attractive then I'm probably not going to be romantically interested in them. They don't have to look like a supermodel but being cute helps.
Admiral,
A lot of people would drop their husband in a flash, if a date with Tom Cruise or the latest stud came up and there would not be a lot their husband could do about it. That's the impression I get. The only girl I ever met, who didn't mind that I was shy in asking her out, though nothing came of it, cos someone got in before me, wasn't a natural beauty, but she did a lot with what she had and we would have got on like a house on fire and she was very ambitious.
Just cos you are both ugly doesn't mean you two trolls have to stick together for the rest of your life, cos no-one else wants you. You want the best for people, surely? And, anyway, you can learn from people, from each other. Personality is important, but so are looks, and in my case, I want kids and I have to think how they will turn out, with a bit of both, not a lot of one and none of the other. I want them to have all of my brains and very little of my looks, at least, the best bits. Cold? When I'm thinking of the kids? I'm eligible to join mensa, but I could settle down with anyone who has the brains to see I am shy on the final fence, cos I look funny.
Anyway, back to your case.
You have us, on the BBS, and you have an interest in ST and you could go to ST conventions. You need confidence and substance and an interest in people in a mixture. You don't want to be too arrogant, cos you might dump all over her and she might be off in 3 weeks. I've met loads of men like that and they are the ones that turn round and say to me, 'you can't miss what you've never had', which makes me feel like Mike Tyson, 15 seconds into the first round.
You can't be too shy either, and too nice, cos the final fence requires some selfishness and basically it's your shot.
Thats 'sex tips for boys' book tells you how to assess what league you are in, looks wise, with all the attributes, height, nose, eyes, looks, etc. You work out what league you are in and aim for someone in your league. You can go up two levels, I've nearly been up to the second from the top, and down one, when you are drunk. It's a good book.
You don't seem to have any problem talking here.
Actually no, it's good advice. Flirting with women you're not interested in is the best thing you can do. Simply enjoy yourself and have a good time, for crying out loud.
And it's funny. You visit a psychologist, but when he tells you stuff you don't want to hear, you find someone who only tells you stuff you want to hear. That's really not how it works.
OK, looking for an attractive mate is fine. But just how attractive does she have to be? You don't have to actually answer me on this question, but you should answer it for yourself. Here's why: For all you know, you wrote off your soulmate because she had freckles.
Good to know that you wouldn't saddle yourself with a gorgeous bitch.
OK, I missed that one. However, you might consider making friends with a woman.
Whatever you do, I'm 100% sure that a book with a title like "Sex tips for boys" isn't going to help you, so I humbly recommend you don't put that one in your Amazon wish list. It reminds me of the Frank "TJ" Mackey "Seduce and Destroy" stuff from Magnolia. Hideously cheesy.
Not. True. At least not with adults. Thinking like this is not going to help you find a stable, mature relationship, and probably won't even give you the confidence to pull off a one-night stand. It's going to lead you down a blind alley of mistrust that's going to prevent you from really being open with anyone.
We're drifting away from Shran's OP into some strange areas again (I'm starting to see a pattern here), so let me restate the original premise: the good admiral finds it difficult to strike up conversation with women he finds attractive. And let me offer another bit of advice.
Don't go into every encounter thinking, "this could be the one." I could see how that would make you really nervous. I know it would make me nervous, and afraid of saying the wrong thing and ruining everything.
But, there's really no "wrong thing" you can say. Sure, you can come off as a little weird or unsure of yourself, but most of the people I like to talk to are a little weird and unsure of themselves. There's no real wrong answer here, and in casual conversations your general demeanor is a lot more important than anything you actually say. So there is no wrong answer.
I'll amend that. There is a wrong answer: saying nothing at all. And I think you're ready to go beyond that. Look at what you've done over the past week in here:
1. Confessed your innermost feelings, things that you haven't shared with your family, to a bunch of strangers in a place where people can be cruel at time.
2. Posted a picture of yourself in the same forum (and gotten some replies that anyone can envy).
That takes some stones. You're really on the right track, Shran. Just stay true to yourself.
Not. True. At least not with adults. Thinking like this is not going to help you find a stable, mature relationship, and probably won't even give you the confidence to pull off a one-night stand. It's going to lead you down a blind alley of mistrust that's going to prevent you from really being open with anyone.
We're drifting away from Shran's OP into some strange areas again (I'm starting to see a pattern here), so let me restate the original premise: the good admiral finds it difficult to strike up conversation with women he finds attractive. And let me offer another bit of advice.
Don't go into every encounter thinking, "this could be the one." I could see how that would make you really nervous. I know it would make me nervous, and afraid of saying the wrong thing and ruining everything.
But, there's really no "wrong thing" you can say. Sure, you can come off as a little weird or unsure of yourself, but most of the people I like to talk to are a little weird and unsure of themselves. There's no real wrong answer here, and in casual conversations your general demeanor is a lot more important than anything you actually say. So there is no wrong answer.
I'll amend that. There is a wrong answer: saying nothing at all. And I think you're ready to go beyond that. Look at what you've done over the past week in here:
1. Confessed your innermost feelings, things that you haven't shared with your family, to a bunch of strangers in a place where people can be cruel at time.
2. Posted a picture of yourself in the same forum (and gotten some replies that anyone can envy).
That takes some stones. You're really on the right track, Shran. Just stay true to yourself.
You may also want to try talking with people much older than you. A lot of people seem to find that less threatening. Helps to build up your social muscles.
Admiral, I have two thoughts for you to consider. (Please forgive me if this has all been said before; I haven't read the entire thread.)
First, your intense focus on wanting an intimate relationship is probably hindering you. It makes every interaction w/ a female A BIG DEAL. You'd be better off concentrating on activities that you enjoy and that include both men and women -- church, a club, a Trek convention, politics, sports, whatever. It's a more natural setting for meeting people than dating or on-line matchmaking and gives you a built-in topic of conversation.
Second, three and a half years of no progress in therapy may mean that you should find a new therapist. At least discuss your lack of progress w/ your current one (if you're not already doing that).
First, your intense focus on wanting an intimate relationship is probably hindering you. It makes every interaction w/ a female A BIG DEAL. You'd be better off concentrating on activities that you enjoy and that include both men and women -- church, a club, a Trek convention, politics, sports, whatever. It's a more natural setting for meeting people than dating or on-line matchmaking and gives you a built-in topic of conversation.
Second, three and a half years of no progress in therapy may mean that you should find a new therapist. At least discuss your lack of progress w/ your current one (if you're not already doing that).
I would have a few concerns here, and forgive me as I'm going to be a little bold in how I offer advice.
1. Your self-hate. I think you're suffering from a kind of depression, and your lack of relationship or intimate contact is an easy scapegoat. This way, you can wallow in the world of, "if only I had this, I would be happy." The truth is that in your current emotional state you would probably be too needy to maturely handle a relationship, even if you found a young woman who wanted nothing more than to be with you.
2. Friends and Family. It's clear you have a support network, but you seem cynical about whether they are looking out for your best interests. Just to play Devil's advocate, it's very difficult (if not impossible) to give advice to somebody who feels hopeless or thinks I'm not looking out for them.
3. The positive. You need to take a few steps back, and focus intently on the things you like about yourself. What about your hobbies? Your work? What special skills or talents do you have? When you do finally force yourself out of bed, what small moments do you have that make you feel good about yourself? Try to tear yourself away from the fear and self-loathing and trying basking in your own greatness for awhile.
4. What then? Lindley gave some especially good advice about building friendships. When you find a girl you like, never, ever crush on her from a distance for an extended period of time. You'll lather yourself into insanity not talking to her. Remember, you don't need to have some concrete divider between plutonic friends and friends with potential. I have several female friends I stay in touch with that I could see blossoming into something more-- but that's not the only reason I stay friends. Part of the fun of friendships with the opposite sex is the casual flirtation and sexual tension. Granted-- you need to take a lot of steps before you get to this point! You need to break out of your shell. Don't be afraid that engaging with multiple conversations with young woman is "using them."
Anyway, good luck. REMEMBER, Find. Something. You. Like. About. Yourself. And pursue it to no end. First connections are almost always buit on like interests. Join clubs. Force yourself into social situations outside of your employment. Take care of your body and health so that you feel physically good.
And, let's be real, you're an avid Star Trek fan-- so you're already pretty damn cool in my book.
Sources: The school of hard knocks.
1. Your self-hate. I think you're suffering from a kind of depression, and your lack of relationship or intimate contact is an easy scapegoat. This way, you can wallow in the world of, "if only I had this, I would be happy." The truth is that in your current emotional state you would probably be too needy to maturely handle a relationship, even if you found a young woman who wanted nothing more than to be with you.
2. Friends and Family. It's clear you have a support network, but you seem cynical about whether they are looking out for your best interests. Just to play Devil's advocate, it's very difficult (if not impossible) to give advice to somebody who feels hopeless or thinks I'm not looking out for them.
3. The positive. You need to take a few steps back, and focus intently on the things you like about yourself. What about your hobbies? Your work? What special skills or talents do you have? When you do finally force yourself out of bed, what small moments do you have that make you feel good about yourself? Try to tear yourself away from the fear and self-loathing and trying basking in your own greatness for awhile.
4. What then? Lindley gave some especially good advice about building friendships. When you find a girl you like, never, ever crush on her from a distance for an extended period of time. You'll lather yourself into insanity not talking to her. Remember, you don't need to have some concrete divider between plutonic friends and friends with potential. I have several female friends I stay in touch with that I could see blossoming into something more-- but that's not the only reason I stay friends. Part of the fun of friendships with the opposite sex is the casual flirtation and sexual tension. Granted-- you need to take a lot of steps before you get to this point! You need to break out of your shell. Don't be afraid that engaging with multiple conversations with young woman is "using them."
Anyway, good luck. REMEMBER, Find. Something. You. Like. About. Yourself. And pursue it to no end. First connections are almost always buit on like interests. Join clubs. Force yourself into social situations outside of your employment. Take care of your body and health so that you feel physically good.
And, let's be real, you're an avid Star Trek fan-- so you're already pretty damn cool in my book
.Sources: The school of hard knocks.
"I don't really have a preference, like, as far as women, you know? I just like 'em. If they smell good, and they remind me of me, I like 'em!"
— David Scully, attempting to improv a convincing spit-take by extemporaneously shocking his own sensibilites
True that. Every time I remember how I met one of my best friends in college, I thank God above that she was wearing these distinctive coiled-dragon earrings. If she wasn't, I wouldn't have had anything to work with beyond, "Um, you're pretty," and that would've kind of sucked for the intervening years.
Sorry about the double post, but that is a classic.
Reminds me of another example of the genre.
Hello, it's a pleasure to meet me. I hope you never find a live turtle in your soup."
Similar threads
