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Just Started Avatar The Last Airbender

Ah, that. I thought you might be referring to that.

I definitely drew the same conclusion on what was going on in that scene. But it seemed so much less... I dunno what the right word is, concerning? Non-kid-friendly?... than the events of The Southern Raiders or The Puppetmaster (for example). Suki sneaking into Sokka's tent to stay the night seemed pretty normal, especially since the show had been upping the romantic element between the older characters. And it was mostly played for laughs; it was there for those who knew what was going on, and in another show I might have wanted a bit more of a look at that decision, but the romantic relationships for the characters didn't get a lot of exploration. Well, except Aang and Katara to some extent. But this spoiler-tag comment is getting long enough now.

But remember, this is the United States, where we consider depictions of sexuality and open physical affection to be far more damaging to children than depictions of violence and cruelty. A scene of romance implicitly leading to sex is far more "adult" by American television standards than a scene of war or torture.



That makes sense I guess. So the culture continued developing the way it had already been, just with the bending amplifying it in some way.

But the point I'm making is, it's not just about culture, it's about spirituality. This is a fantasy universe based on Eastern philosophy, so the underlying explanations for how bending works are more spiritual than physical or sociological. It's not just about the development of their culture, but about the elemental affinities of their spiritual essence as a people. Just as the individual ability to bend isn't hereditary but has more to do with the individual's spiritual nature (e.g. Katara can waterbend and Sokka can't). It's not really something that can be explained in non-mystical terms.


Although that does seem to slightly conflict with "The Storm" when the monks talk about sending Aang to the Eastern Air Temple as being away from Monk Gyatso. Maybe there's more than one "band" of Air Nomads and they migrated from temple to temple, thus Aang was being sent to another "band"?

That would be my interpretation.
 
Ah, that. I thought you might be referring to that.

I definitely drew the same conclusion on what was going on in that scene. But it seemed so much less... I dunno what the right word is, concerning? Non-kid-friendly?... than the events of The Southern Raiders or The Puppetmaster (for example). Suki sneaking into Sokka's tent to stay the night seemed pretty normal, especially since the show had been upping the romantic element between the older characters. And it was mostly played for laughs; it was there for those who knew what was going on, and in another show I might have wanted a bit more of a look at that decision, but the romantic relationships for the characters didn't get a lot of exploration. Well, except Aang and Katara to some extent. But this spoiler-tag comment is getting long enough now.
Just to satisfy my ocd, the episode was The Southern Raiders, not Sozin's Comet.
 
Ah, that. I thought you might be referring to that.

I definitely drew the same conclusion on what was going on in that scene. But it seemed so much less... I dunno what the right word is, concerning? Non-kid-friendly?... than the events of The Southern Raiders or The Puppetmaster (for example). Suki sneaking into Sokka's tent to stay the night seemed pretty normal, especially since the show had been upping the romantic element between the older characters. And it was mostly played for laughs; it was there for those who knew what was going on, and in another show I might have wanted a bit more of a look at that decision, but the romantic relationships for the characters didn't get a lot of exploration. Well, except Aang and Katara to some extent. But this spoiler-tag comment is getting long enough now.

But remember, this is the United States, where we consider depictions of sexuality and open physical affection to be far more damaging to children than depictions of violence and cruelty. A scene of romance implicitly leading to sex is far more "adult" by American television standards than a scene of war or torture.

It's fortunate that the folks that made Avatar don't feel the need to ignore or suppress that aspect of adolescence, eh? Makes the characters much more real, IMO. Really with few exceptions the emotional relationships these characters have with each other leave me very impressed, whether its romances, friendships, emnities, etc.

That makes sense I guess. So the culture continued developing the way it had already been, just with the bending amplifying it in some way.
But the point I'm making is, it's not just about culture, it's about spirituality. This is a fantasy universe based on Eastern philosophy, so the underlying explanations for how bending works are more spiritual than physical or sociological. It's not just about the development of their culture, but about the elemental affinities of their spiritual essence as a people. Just as the individual ability to bend isn't hereditary but has more to do with the individual's spiritual nature (e.g. Katara can waterbend and Sokka can't). It's not really something that can be explained in non-mystical terms.

So the benders are... more spiritual? More in touch? Specially gifted in their spirituality (with the Avatar being even more gifted)? Is Sokka's skepticism related to his non-bending? He doesn't seem to regard this as a handicap, and the majority of people in the Avatar world appear to be non-benders, despite many being apparently quite spiritual (Master Piandao and the Kyoshi Warriors, for example).

With the sentence I highlighted, I'm not sure I understand the difference that the comma is separating, except perhaps that the spiritual essence of the people have led their culture to develop in a certain way. And then, what do you do with two different cultures who bend the same element, the Fire Nation and the Sun Wariors? Or the Northern/Southern Water Tribes and the Foggy Swamp Tribe?

I don't mind mystical terms at all, I'm just wondering at how this works, especially in light of where things stand at the end of the series. And "it's not entirely clear" is a perfectly good answer for me, which is what I've come to believe.

Ah, that. I thought you might be referring to that.

I definitely drew the same conclusion on what was going on in that scene. But it seemed so much less... I dunno what the right word is, concerning? Non-kid-friendly?... than the events of The Southern Raiders or The Puppetmaster (for example). Suki sneaking into Sokka's tent to stay the night seemed pretty normal, especially since the show had been upping the romantic element between the older characters. And it was mostly played for laughs; it was there for those who knew what was going on, and in another show I might have wanted a bit more of a look at that decision, but the romantic relationships for the characters didn't get a lot of exploration. Well, except Aang and Katara to some extent. But this spoiler-tag comment is getting long enough now.
Just to satisfy my ocd, the episode was The Southern Raiders, not Sozin's Comet.

That's what I'd thought, but they were running together for me so I just went with it.
 
So the benders are... more spiritual? More in touch?

No, I don't think that's it. What I mean is that the whole universe of the show is spiritual. It's governed more by mystical principles than mundane ones (as evidenced by the fact that the moon is apparently an extension of a supernatural being and can be wiped from existence by killing that being's animal avatar). Everyone has a spirit, everyone has chi, but their spirits have different characters.

It was never really defined what determined who could bend and who couldn't, but what we do know is that it's not based on heredity or environment or any such temporal factors, but is instead a function of the state of the chi that exists within each person or each nation. It's defined in supernatural terms. You're looking for an explanation based on the way our reality works, on mundane factors like culture and behavior, but A:TLA's reality is much more mystically based.
 
Man, I only have six episodes left. :( I'm really trying to savor them and only watch them occasionally. I watched the first eight minutes of "The Southern Raiders" before stopping it. I think I saw the sex scene you guys are talking about. The Kyoshi girl who likes Sokka was trying to sneak into his tent in the middle of the night and he was waiting for her with a rose in his teeth.
 
Man, I only have six episodes left. :( I'm really trying to savor them and only watch them occasionally. I watched the first eight minutes of "The Southern Raiders" before stopping it. I think I saw the sex scene you guys are talking about. The Kyoshi girl who likes Sokka was trying to sneak into his tent in the middle of the night and he was waiting for her with a rose in his teeth.
Yep, that's it.

However, Avatar by this point in the show was shown between 7:30pm to 9:00 and the average age range of the audience was tween and up. So, no young children unaware of such things were watching. ;)

Frankly, I'm looking forward to seeing M. Nights live version of the "Fire Dance" in the cave between Ang & Katarra in the third installment of the movie. I think them dancing, surrounded by the candles should look amazing!
 
Since each season is being condensed into two hour movies, I highly expect the opening of Movie Three is going to be "Day of Black Sun" and cut out the entire swatch of "living undercover in the Fire Nation" episodes.
 
Although that does seem to slightly conflict with "The Storm" when the monks talk about sending Aang to the Eastern Air Temple as being away from Monk Gyatso. Maybe there's more than one "band" of Air Nomads and they migrated from temple to temple, thus Aang was being sent to another "band"?
That would be my interpretation.

In always imagined that the Air Nomads were never truly wiped out by the Fire Nation and instead were simply in hiding. If there had been a season 4, I would have liked to have seen Aang re-discover them.

If there were NO descendants of the Air Kingdoms, who would become the next Avatar once the cycle came around again to their nation? Would someone from the water or fire or earth tribes have discovered the ability to bend air?
 
Clearly Season 4 would have been about Aang being a breeding stud, traveling the world to spread the Air Nomad genes in as many lasses as possible. :eek:
 
Although that does seem to slightly conflict with "The Storm" when the monks talk about sending Aang to the Eastern Air Temple as being away from Monk Gyatso. Maybe there's more than one "band" of Air Nomads and they migrated from temple to temple, thus Aang was being sent to another "band"?
That would be my interpretation.

In always imagined that the Air Nomads were never truly wiped out by the Fire Nation and instead were simply in hiding. If there had been a season 4, I would have liked to have seen Aang re-discover them.

If there were NO descendants of the Air Kingdoms, who would become the next Avatar once the cycle came around again to their nation? Would someone from the water or fire or earth tribes have discovered the ability to bend air?
Ang learned how to energy bend from the Lion Turtle. An ability long forgotten by people and the Avatar's decades ago. Ang now has the ablity to turn on and turn off bending Chi in people. He can now create more Air Benders by turning on the ability in others, thus re-creating a Air Bender tribe.
 
So the benders are... more spiritual? More in touch?

No, I don't think that's it. What I mean is that the whole universe of the show is spiritual. It's governed more by mystical principles than mundane ones (as evidenced by the fact that the moon is apparently an extension of a supernatural being and can be wiped from existence by killing that being's animal avatar). Everyone has a spirit, everyone has chi, but their spirits have different characters.

It was never really defined what determined who could bend and who couldn't, but what we do know is that it's not based on heredity or environment or any such temporal factors, but is instead a function of the state of the chi that exists within each person or each nation. It's defined in supernatural terms. You're looking for an explanation based on the way our reality works, on mundane factors like culture and behavior, but A:TLA's reality is much more mystically based.

There's got to be some sort of hereditary nature though, since all water benders are of the Water Tribes, and all Air Bender are of the Air Nomads, and all earth benders are of the Earth Kingdom. Chi/spiritual heredity perhaps? No, wait, that's not supernatural... hmm. Part of the reason I'm wondering about this question of heredity and where the bending comes from so much is because of a similar concern to FordSVT. What does the absence of Airbenders do to the Avatar cycle when it's time for another Air avatar? Also, the Waterbenders are so much fewer now, and the next Avatar will be from the Water Tribes.

However,
the end of the show leaves it fairly unambiguous that Aang and Katarra will be together for the forseeable future. And we know that Avatars can and do get married and have children. So if Aang and Katarra do end up having kids, is it reasonable to think that they may end up restarting the Air Nomads via Aang and Katara's kids and the airbenders as well? Of course, Katarra's the last waterbender of the Southern Water Tribe, but not the last person, and benders don't have to be descended from benders. The Southern Water Tribe can recover easily enough since there's peace.

Man, I only have six episodes left. :( I'm really trying to savor them and only watch them occasionally. I watched the first eight minutes of "The Southern Raiders" before stopping it. I think I saw the sex scene you guys are talking about. The Kyoshi girl who likes Sokka was trying to sneak into his tent in the middle of the night and he was waiting for her with a rose in his teeth.
Yep, that's it.

However, Avatar by this point in the show was shown between 7:30pm to 9:00 and the average age range of the audience was tween and up. So, no young children unaware of such things were watching. ;)

Frankly, I'm looking forward to seeing M. Nights live version of the "Fire Dance" in the cave between Ang & Katarra in the third installment of the movie. I think them dancing, surrounded by the candles should look amazing!

"Fire Dance?" Did I miss something? I wasn't able to watch "The Headband," which I recall reading has something about a dance...

That would be my interpretation.

In always imagined that the Air Nomads were never truly wiped out by the Fire Nation and instead were simply in hiding. If there had been a season 4, I would have liked to have seen Aang re-discover them.

If there were NO descendants of the Air Kingdoms, who would become the next Avatar once the cycle came around again to their nation? Would someone from the water or fire or earth tribes have discovered the ability to bend air?
Ang learned how to energy bend from the Lion Turtle. An ability long forgotten by people and the Avatar's decades ago. Ang now has the ablity to turn on and turn off bending Chi in people. He can now create more Air Benders by turning on the ability in others, thus re-creating a Air Bender tribe.

Wait, what? That can't have been the implication, can it? I mean, it's an elegant solution, but
a bit of a cop-out IMO if Aang can just "turn on" Airbending. The energy bending seemed to be about taking away or I suppose reactivating something that was there, but not creating something new...
 
There's got to be some sort of hereditary nature though, since all water benders are of the Water Tribes, and all Air Bender are of the Air Nomads, and all earth benders are of the Earth Kingdom. Chi/spiritual heredity perhaps?

Maybe it's something like dharma in Hinduism -- the idea that each caste or varna has its own dharma, its own rightful path in life. So yes, it is a kind of spiritual "heredity," in the sense of the shared spirit of the nation.


Ang learned how to energy bend from the Lion Turtle. An ability long forgotten by people and the Avatar's decades ago. Ang now has the ablity to turn on and turn off bending Chi in people. He can now create more Air Benders by turning on the ability in others, thus re-creating a Air Bender tribe.

Wait, what? That can't have been the implication, can it? I mean, it's an elegant solution, but
a bit of a cop-out IMO if Aang can just "turn on" Airbending. The energy bending seemed to be about taking away or I suppose reactivating something that was there, but not creating something new...

I came to the same conclusion.
Aang's energy-bending or chi-bending ability would logically include the ability to endow bending powers as well as remove them. Bending ability is a function of the "shape" of one's chi, and so by reshaping it, one could create or remove any bending ability desired.

After all, there's no possible way that a single airbender could repopulate the whole race by fathering them. Even if it could be guaranteed that they would be airbenders rather than taking after their mother or having no bending ability at all (since it's not strictly hereditary), it would simply take too long to regenerate the population to a suitable level. Creating new airbenders through energy-bending is the only viable way of restoring the balance of the four nations.
 
There's got to be some sort of hereditary nature though, since all water benders are of the Water Tribes, and all Air Bender are of the Air Nomads, and all earth benders are of the Earth Kingdom. Chi/spiritual heredity perhaps?

Maybe it's something like dharma in Hinduism -- the idea that each caste or varna has its own dharma, its own rightful path in life. So yes, it is a kind of spiritual "heredity," in the sense of the shared spirit of the nation.

Ok now, that makes sense! (It doesn't cover the nuts and bolts like what a bending child of Suki and Sokka would bend, but that's alright, I'm happy).


Ang learned how to energy bend from the Lion Turtle. An ability long forgotten by people and the Avatar's decades ago. Ang now has the ablity to turn on and turn off bending Chi in people. He can now create more Air Benders by turning on the ability in others, thus re-creating a Air Bender tribe.
Wait, what? That can't have been the implication, can it? I mean, it's an elegant solution, but
a bit of a cop-out IMO if Aang can just "turn on" Airbending. The energy bending seemed to be about taking away or I suppose reactivating something that was there, but not creating something new...
I came to the same conclusion.
Aang's energy-bending or chi-bending ability would logically include the ability to endow bending powers as well as remove them. Bending ability is a function of the "shape" of one's chi, and so by reshaping it, one could create or remove any bending ability desired.

After all, there's no possible way that a single airbender could repopulate the whole race by fathering them. Even if it could be guaranteed that they would be airbenders rather than taking after their mother or having no bending ability at all (since it's not strictly hereditary), it would simply take too long to regenerate the population to a suitable level. Creating new airbenders through energy-bending is the only viable way of restoring the balance of the four nations.

I'm sorry, I just can't buy it..

or at the very least, I'm unsatisfied by it - and I thought the ending of Sozin's Comet was generally brilliant (I look forward to Mr Light being done so we can talk openly about it). I suppose it makes some sense logically but it just seems like a little too much power, even for the avatar, even for Aang who's proven himself pure. A little too convenient maybe. Unsatisfied by it, that's what it comes down to. :sigh: I think I'd be happier with Appa teaching a new generation of airbenders than Aang bending their chi into that shape.

I wasn't thinking of Aang directly fathering the entire new Air Nomad society, that's a little too Adam-esque. I was picturing more of an adoption, especially of the people who had moved into the Northern Air Temple, into a new Air Nomad society as taught/led by Aang, that over time would restore the airbenders since their kids' chi would be Air Nomad. Aang and Katara's kids/descendants, assuming any were airbenders, could be an important part of this society, and there'd likely be a very close relationship between the new Air Nomads and the Southern Water Tribe at least for the first several generations.
 
There's got to be some sort of hereditary nature though, since all water benders are of the Water Tribes, and all Air Bender are of the Air Nomads, and all earth benders are of the Earth Kingdom. Chi/spiritual heredity perhaps?

Maybe it's something like dharma in Hinduism -- the idea that each caste or varna has its own dharma, its own rightful path in life. So yes, it is a kind of spiritual "heredity," in the sense of the shared spirit of the nation.

Ok now, that makes sense! (It doesn't cover the nuts and bolts like what a bending child of Suki and Sokka would bend, but that's alright, I'm happy).


Wait, what? That can't have been the implication, can it? I mean, it's an elegant solution, but
a bit of a cop-out IMO if Aang can just "turn on" Airbending. The energy bending seemed to be about taking away or I suppose reactivating something that was there, but not creating something new...
I came to the same conclusion.
Aang's energy-bending or chi-bending ability would logically include the ability to endow bending powers as well as remove them. Bending ability is a function of the "shape" of one's chi, and so by reshaping it, one could create or remove any bending ability desired.

After all, there's no possible way that a single airbender could repopulate the whole race by fathering them. Even if it could be guaranteed that they would be airbenders rather than taking after their mother or having no bending ability at all (since it's not strictly hereditary), it would simply take too long to regenerate the population to a suitable level. Creating new airbenders through energy-bending is the only viable way of restoring the balance of the four nations.

I'm sorry, I just can't buy it..

or at the very least, I'm unsatisfied by it - and I thought the ending of Sozin's Comet was generally brilliant (I look forward to Mr Light being done so we can talk openly about it). I suppose it makes some sense logically but it just seems like a little too much power, even for the avatar, even for Aang who's proven himself pure. A little too convenient maybe. Unsatisfied by it, that's what it comes down to. :sigh: I think I'd be happier with Appa teaching a new generation of airbenders than Aang bending their chi into that shape.

I wasn't thinking of Aang directly fathering the entire new Air Nomad society, that's a little too Adam-esque. I was picturing more of an adoption, especially of the people who had moved into the Northern Air Temple, into a new Air Nomad society as taught/led by Aang, that over time would restore the airbenders since their kids' chi would be Air Nomad. Aang and Katara's kids/descendants, assuming any were airbenders, could be an important part of this society, and there'd likely be a very close relationship between the new Air Nomads and the Southern Water Tribe at least for the first several generations.
I don't understand, how can Appa teach people to Air Bend if nobody has the ability? They've already told us only the Avatar has the abilty to learn all 4 elements, so you can't turn a Water or Earth bender into an Air Bender. That Chi has to be unlocked first. Besides, Ang's new challenge in doing so will be to restore the Avatar chain.
 
I don't understand, how can Appa teach people to Air Bend if nobody has the ability? They've already told us only the Avatar has the abilty to learn all 4 elements, so you can't turn a Water or Earth bender into an Air Bender.
As I said much earlier in the thread, that's one of the contradictions in the mythos. The bending arts were first learned from animals, so in theory any Water, Fire, or Earth tribe member who isn't already a bender of that type should be able to learn to Airbend. Except that there's some inexplicable racial element involved, so maybe not. It's confusing.
 
I don't find it confusing. There's a difference between potential and knowledge. The animals didn't create the potential in the benders; they provided the guidance that people born with that potential needed in order to learn how to use that potential.

By analogy, I have ten fingers, so I was born with the potential to play the piano. But I had to take lessons (which I never really dedicated myself to) to learn how to use that potential. But my piano teacher didn't give me my fingers; I already had those. There's a difference between teaching a skill and instilling the innate tools for it.
 
I don't understand, how can Appa teach people to Air Bend if nobody has the ability? They've already told us only the Avatar has the abilty to learn all 4 elements, so you can't turn a Water or Earth bender into an Air Bender.
As I said much earlier in the thread, that's one of the contradictions in the mythos. The bending arts were first learned from animals, so in theory any Water, Fire, or Earth tribe member who isn't already a bender of that type should be able to learn to Airbend. Except that there's some inexplicable racial element involved, so maybe not. It's confusing.

Yeah, I agree with CaptainCanada. The cultural/national/racial/whatever element makes some sense in light of what Chris and I were discussing earlier, but it would make sense that any person can learn bending that is of the "right" chi if the original benders learned from the spiritual animals. Although the waterbenders learned from the Moon... but as the moon is a spiritual being, not just a lump of rock in the sky, that's not as big of an issue.

So,
theoretically, let's run with my idea of Aang "adopting" the Mechanist's people (among others) into a "new" Air Nomad society, also including one of more of his and Katara's own kids. Why couldn't Appa teach some of them, or more likely some of the kids of this "new" Air Nomad society, how to airbend?

ETA: Good point about potential since Toph, Zuko, and Aang already had to potential. But bouldn't the potential then come from a revived society of Air Nomads?

After all, Toph learned earthbending from the badgermoles, and Zuko and Aang learned firebending from the dragons, so we know it's not just a legendary long-past possibility.
 
ETA: Good point about potential since Toph, Zuko, and Aang already had to potential. But bouldn't the potential then come from a revived society of Air Nomads?

After all, Toph learned earthbending from the badgermoles, and Zuko and Aang learned firebending from the dragons, so we know it's not just a legendary long-past possibility.

But they were all born with the innate inclination for their respective bending abilities. Again, don't confuse being capable of bending with knowing how to bend. Toph was born with exceptional bending ability, but she needed to learn how to use it from the badger-moles. Zuko was born with firebending ability, and he learned the basic techniques for using that ability from his teachers, but he needed to learn the special techniques first from Iroh and then from the dragons. And Aang was able to learn new kinds of bending because he was the Avatar and thus born with the potential to master all four elements, but he didn't know how to use that potential until he was taught.

So if Toph had tried to learn firebending from the dragons, or if Zuko had tried to learn earthbending from the badger-moles, it wouldn't have worked, because they didn't have the right potential. So Appa couldn't teach airbending to someone from the Water Tribe or the Fire Nation or the Earth Kingdom -- not until Aang used energy-bending to modify their chi and turn them into potential airbenders.

Come to think of it, there's an issue the show never addressed. Appa's the last of the sky bisons. Unless there's a hidden enclave of them somewhere, their species is just a few decades at most from extinction. That's sad to think about.
 
I don't understand, how can Appa teach people to Air Bend if nobody has the ability? They've already told us only the Avatar has the abilty to learn all 4 elements, so you can't turn a Water or Earth bender into an Air Bender.
As I said much earlier in the thread, that's one of the contradictions in the mythos. The bending arts were first learned from animals, so in theory any Water, Fire, or Earth tribe member who isn't already a bender of that type should be able to learn to Airbend. Except that there's some inexplicable racial element involved, so maybe not. It's confusing.
So much for spoilers, huh? :lol:

I don't see it as a contradiction.
The Lion Turtle said it was centuries ago people knew the art of Chi Bending. Once everybody settled on a bending element, they learned to master it by watching the animals. Due to that, they no longer used the gift they had to power bend anymore. It's a succession of events. You have to have the ability first before you can learn how to use it.
 
ETA: Good point about potential since Toph, Zuko, and Aang already had to potential. But bouldn't the potential then come from a revived society of Air Nomads?

After all, Toph learned earthbending from the badgermoles, and Zuko and Aang learned firebending from the dragons, so we know it's not just a legendary long-past possibility.

But they were all born with the innate inclination for their respective bending abilities. Again, don't confuse being capable of bending with knowing how to bend. Toph was born with exceptional bending ability, but she needed to learn how to use it from the badger-moles. Zuko was born with firebending ability, and he learned the basic techniques for using that ability from his teachers, but he needed to learn the special techniques first from Iroh and then from the dragons. And Aang was able to learn new kinds of bending because he was the Avatar and thus born with the potential to master all four elements, but he didn't know how to use that potential until he was taught.

So if Toph had tried to learn firebending from the dragons, or if Zuko had tried to learn earthbending from the badger-moles, it wouldn't have worked, because they didn't have the right potential. So Appa couldn't teach airbending to someone from the Water Tribe or the Fire Nation or the Earth Kingdom -- not until Aang used energy-bending to modify their chi and turn them into potential airbenders.

Come to think of it, there's an issue the show never addressed. Appa's the last of the sky bisons. Unless there's a hidden enclave of them somewhere, their species is just a few decades at most from extinction. That's sad to think about.
True, but there are no more Dragons(wink, wink) either but Fire Benders just learn from other Fire Benders how to master their craft now. I just wonder who taught Azula the skill of using Lighting.
 
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