You hit the nail on the head. I think GL wussed out by having Anakin not kill Padme flat out, inflicting a mortal wound with force lightning or a lightsaber stab, and she holds on just long enough to have the children.
Each time I see Revenge of the Sith...
- Thread starter zenophite
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You hit the nail on the head. I think GL wussed out by having Anakin not kill Padme flat out, inflicting a mortal wound with force lightning or a lightsaber stab, and she holds on just long enough to have the children.
I also liked Hayden. I think he had the right look, and he really seemed to enjoy going dark. I blame any wooden portrayals on GL's direction more than Hayden's acting. I think his confession to Padme in AOTC was very powerful as was his performance in ROTS. I just wish that GL had let the man be more free to do his thing.
I saw him in Shattered Glass. I think the man can act and can do darkness well. I agree also that GL should have let him have some freedom in AOTC. he saddled him with terrible dialogue (in the romance, especially) and his need for Anakin to stay "good". Anakin should have shown a lot more of his inner conflict (i.e., in not as wimpy a manner, as he did) in AOTC.
Lucas does allow his actors to do their own thing, Warwick Davies talks about that in the Willow commentary when compared Lucas to Ron Howard as directors.
I've only seen ROTS twice (and I'm pretty sure that's going to be my lifetime total, too). The second time it was better because I knew it was basically just a lot of pretty nonsense till the end. Vader's creation was a great moment, even if that was ruined as well (we all know how).
Padme's death should have been suicide. There's just no other way to pull it off plausibly. She squirts out the twins and then, realizing Anakin will psychically find her and the kiddies no matter what if she remains alive, drags herself to the nearest convenient airlock and exist sans spacesuit. We could have had a lovely tragic image of Frozen Padme floating in space (don't worry, NASA says people don't really blow up in space, so she can still have a pretty funeral) and it's plausible that things could be arranged so that Anakin thinks she killed herself before the babies were born. Pad the corpse for the funeral, maybe. Bonus points if the twins were born prematurely.
But with all the medical tech we have to assume the Star Wars society has available, death in childbirth is just wildly implausible, even if it had been a whole lot more convincing (violent and bloody) than what we saw. A realistic death in childbirth is probably not something your average Star Wars fan wants to see.
Anakin should not have been motivated by loving wifey too much. That's too whiny and pathetic of a motive to synch up with someone who becomes the Incarnation of Evil. There's only one good motive that can lead someone to Vader-hood, and that's Lust for Power. A clever script could have convinced us that Anakin had deluded himself he was after something else - protecting his loved ones - but still made crystal clear that he was a hypocrite and it was power he loved above all.
As for the kiddies' names, it would have been more ironic and tragic if Padme hadn't named them after all. Why couldn't Obi-Wan and Bail Organa decide on the names themselves? That would make sense but also be interestingly unexpected.
ITA about the kiddie's names but I wholeheartedly disagree about Anakin's motive. the whole point Lucas was trying to make in Vader's creation was the pathos and tragedy behind a good man giving in to the darkness inside himself through self-fulfilling prophecy. lust for power is in now way as powerful a dramatic irony as that.
I'm not sure a "self-fulfilling prophecy" which consists solely of a few bad dreams that your wife is going to die for no reason (other than the obvious contrivance of a bad writer who desperately needs a reason for a basically good person to suddenly become evil) actually makes for anything even in the neighborhood of "powerful dramatic irony".
no, but the fact that his psyche was so caught up with Padme and the slight but clear oedipal complex that went with it that it did become a powerful motivator. he lost his mother twice and I think Lucas did show that his feelings about both women were entangled. it IS a powerful dramatic irony -- any kind of parental motivator. it has been, in almost every mythic story. like any writer worth his salt, GL is aware of that. the problem is (at least one that is apparent to me) that most of the fans aren't.
the reason I like ROTS over every other SW movie is because, despite its obvious flaws, it's an adult, and complex, story.
the reason I like ROTS over every other SW movie is because, despite its obvious flaws, it's an adult, and complex, story.
Warwick Davis hasn't been in anything directed by Lucas, so it sounds to me like he may have been talking out of his ass here.
Regarding Hayden's acting, I've found him to be wooden and unbelievable in every film he's been in. Thus I don't blame Lucas for Hayden's poor performance. He simply isn't a good actor. Pretty, yes. But not a good actor.
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
No. Lucas' best film has always been American Graffiti.
No. I liked it a lot in the theaters but when I saw it on DVD I loved it. That feeling has not changed.
Are there a few "meh" scenes? A couple, yes, but I've never really felt that it took that much away from the film as some do.
Same with Natalie Portman. Although, I suppose Lucas could be blamed for the casting but, hey, sometimes you're just unlucky.
Warwick Davies played three different parts in TPM so yeah he knows what he's talking about and yes Lucas did direct TPM.
It was a pretty good movie. The only part that seems funny to me is the first few minutes of it. There is this huge battle going on above the planet and one of the ships crash lands with Obi Wan and Darth Vader gonna be kid and people are walking around like nothing special is happening above them.
He had a single uncredited part as a podrace spectator. Hardly makes him an expert on the director.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001116/
Either way, he's entitled to his opinion, of course. As none of us have worked with Lucas, we can only judge his work based on what we see on screen. And opinions obviously vary.
No. It is not. Even the two early, good Star Wars movies are fairy tales that borrow certain mythic themes and tropes, mix them with the pulp serial sci-fi stylistics, in order to create a fun romp through a fantasy universe. Touching on mythic themes does not adult or complex make. The claim that Anakin had some sort of Oedipal thing going on with Padme is thin. I won't say it's not there, but if it is it's as clumsy and contrived as the rest of the PT. You could claim Obi-Wan is the father Anakin wants to kill - but why does Anakin rebel against Obi-Wan except that the story requires him to so that he and Obi-Wan can eventually have a big fight? Anakin suddenly feeling driven to defeat death and sell his soul to the dark side over a couple of indistinct dreams does not suddenly become more compelling because there was one scene in TPM where Padme happened to be around when Anakin left his mother, and because she's a little bit older than he is. There's nothing maternal about her relationship with him in AotC or RotS, so calling her Jocasta to his Oedipus is a bit of a stretch.
If you want an adult, complex story, read Salman Rushdie, Margaret Atwood or Cormac McCarthy. It's these attempts to make Star Wars something it's not that have undercut what fun there is in the movies. They are pulp, FX extravaganzas for the kid in all of us, and they borrow some solid, old themes because those themes make for good, entertaining stories, and they don't take much effort to write.
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
Biggest problems with ROTS:
-Grievous was too much of a late entry into the prequels. I've said it before, he felt like he was added more for merchandising reasons more than story reasons, as old man Dooku wasn't kid friendly.
-Padme borderline-barefoot-and-pregnant and stupid characterization.
-The Battle Droid voices, but that's been a problem since TPM.
-Anakin being stupider than ever. He should've demanded that Palpatine keep his word "If she dies, then you die." Anything to look less dickless than he was.
-Wasting costumed Vader. The movie's only memorable post-mangled Darth Vader quote, with James Earl Jones reprising Vader's voice...something we all looked forward to...was "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" Which became a joke.
Minor quibbles:
-Nute Gunray oblivious to Anakin being one of those Jedi he was gonna execute in the previous movie. "IT'S YOU?!" No..."Lord Vader...oh, shit, you are going to keel us, aren't'a you?"
-Dooku's early death. Considering how was led into being revealed in AOTC, he winds up disposed of quite quickly.
-Montage of murdered Jedi most of whom, despite some appearing in 3 movie, never said a word and therefore we give less a crap about than the unnamed pilots in A NEW HOPE.
-Grievous was too much of a late entry into the prequels. I've said it before, he felt like he was added more for merchandising reasons more than story reasons, as old man Dooku wasn't kid friendly.
-Padme borderline-barefoot-and-pregnant and stupid characterization.
-The Battle Droid voices, but that's been a problem since TPM.
-Anakin being stupider than ever. He should've demanded that Palpatine keep his word "If she dies, then you die." Anything to look less dickless than he was.
-Wasting costumed Vader. The movie's only memorable post-mangled Darth Vader quote, with James Earl Jones reprising Vader's voice...something we all looked forward to...was "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" Which became a joke.
Minor quibbles:
-Nute Gunray oblivious to Anakin being one of those Jedi he was gonna execute in the previous movie. "IT'S YOU?!" No..."Lord Vader...oh, shit, you are going to keel us, aren't'a you?"
-Dooku's early death. Considering how was led into being revealed in AOTC, he winds up disposed of quite quickly.
-Montage of murdered Jedi most of whom, despite some appearing in 3 movie, never said a word and therefore we give less a crap about than the unnamed pilots in A NEW HOPE.
My favorite part of the movie...............
"I had youuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!!"
My friends and I started laughing outloud when we saw that originally in the theatres.
"I had youuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!!"
My friends and I started laughing outloud when we saw that originally in the theatres.
add to that:
- the increasingly diminishing badass-ness of the jedi by how easily they get killed and their total lack of demonstrable skill at combat.
- Tarzan yells. Two tarzan yells.
- including Chewbacca for no other reason than to make a very improbable link to the OT.
- the wimpy retreat by Yoda.
- Casually mentioning that he's heard from long dead qui-gon and having it generally treated as if Qui-Gon has only been on vacation in maui and they've finally located him.
-dying of a broken heart in a universe where people can move objects with their mind.
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
Who even remembers Qui-Gon. Really. No force ghost to carry him across the films ala Obi-Wan (just "No, Anakin!" in AOTC). And the mention in ROTS, without Liam there in person, the reference was as clumsy as it was stupid. 
