The Maple Leaf Lounge

[Owain Taggart]

100% this. I know Carney's trying to be diplomatic over Hoekstra's BS, but if they actually take the step of declaring our ambassador persona non grata, then we had better follow suit.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. It just feels like so much over nothing that we can't change. Sanctions over wildfire smoke feels like such a wild over-exaggeration, almost to the point of sounding like satire. Like, what the hell, man? I have no words. Is the smoke killing their brain cells?? And the fact that it's something we have to deal with, on top of the 51st-state rhetoric is disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. Yet it feels like there's nothing we can do to defend ourselves.

And yeah, if they do go ahead with the removal of our ambassador, that is quite an extreme thing to do, and I don't think there's any precedent, at least in terms of the context of wildfire smoke being the reasoning. Usually sanctions are put on countries due to their policies or something which they've done, whereas the wildfires is not something we've done.

And to be fair, wildfires are not solely a North American problem as crews all over the world deal with their own. But somehow we get threatened with sanctions. I found this article quite interesting given what we're dealing with.

‘It’s only going to get worse’: wildfires forcing firefighters to make impossible choices

As the climate crisis fuels more intense blazes, pushing them to new parts of the world, those tackling them are forced to ration resources and decide which to fight

www.theguardian.com

 

[Timewalker]

I haven't been able to find any source that claims they want to revoke visas for all Canadians. In searching on it, I could only find it in the context of revoking visas for our diplomatic staff, as part of declaring our ambassador persona non grata, as written in Ohio's Senator Moreno's bill to sanction Canada over the smoke.

Probably the person whose post I saw this in misunderstood the original source. So no, probably not all Canadians. The yapping against Carney and Ford has been pretty consistent, though, as well as our ambassador.

I've taken the opportunity to track down some of these American politicians' FB pages and telling them off. It's nice to see some of their own people also telling them off, and that some of them are openly wondering, "Is this a satire, or did he really say that?".

I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. It just feels like so much over nothing that we can't change. Sanctions over wildfire smoke feels like such a wild over-exaggeration, almost to the point of sounding like satire. Like, what the hell, man? I have no words. Is the smoke killing their brain cells?? And the fact that it's something we have to deal with, on top of the 51st-state rhetoric is disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. Yet it feels like there's nothing we can do to defend ourselves.

And yeah, if they do go ahead with the removal of our ambassador, that is quite an extreme thing to do, and I don't think there's any precedent, at least in terms of the context of wildfire smoke being the reasoning. Usually sanctions are put on countries due to their policies or something which they've done, whereas the wildfires is not something we've done.

And to be fair, wildfires are not solely a North American problem as crews all over the world deal with their own. But somehow we get threatened with sanctions. I found this article quite interesting given what we're dealing with.

‘It’s only going to get worse’: wildfires forcing firefighters to make impossible choices

As the climate crisis fuels more intense blazes, pushing them to new parts of the world, those tackling them are forced to ration resources and decide which to fight

www.theguardian.com

Has Canada and the U.S. ever had a situation where we booted each other's ambassadors out? I can't think of any.

It looks grim in Europe. I remember a few years ago when there were horrific fires in Greece. I have a friend there, and fortunately he wasn't in danger.


Oh, and FB carries other perils for me. Somebody in the UK is mad at me for not liking Torvill & Dean (ice dancers). Shame on me for preferring the Canadian and French ice dancers.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Has Canada and the U.S. ever had a situation where we booted each other's ambassadors out? I can't think of any.

I personally can't think of one, though it may have happened before my time. And the thing is, if true, an escalation of this magnitude would likely bring along intervention from NATO due to its severity. I don't think the U.S government would have a leg to stand on.

 

[Avro Arrow]

And the thing is, if true, an escalation of this magnitude would likely bring along intervention from NATO due to its severity.

NATO is a defensive alliance. Unless the US was invading us, I'm not sure why NATO would get involved at all, nor would they probably have any power to do anything about it anyway.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. It just feels like so much over nothing that we can't change. Sanctions over wildfire smoke feels like such a wild over-exaggeration, almost to the point of sounding like satire. Like, what the hell, man? I have no words. Is the smoke killing their brain cells?? And the fact that it's something we have to deal with, on top of the 51st-state rhetoric is disgusting.

Don't forget, there is no rationality here. We are basically dealing with an overgrown narcissistic toddler, who may or may not be suffering from the effects of dementia. But even without dementia, he's always been a terrible person.

And he has a very personal animosity towards our country. And all the MAGA Republican suck-ups are going to adopt that same animosity in order to try to curry his favour, just like they've fallen in line with all his other craziness. And the right-wing propaganda machine is working to try and spread that animosity to their supporters. And in a lot of cases, it's working.

But he will forever be temperamental and mercurial, doing whatever he wants in retaliation for whatever slights or injustices he may perceive in his addled grey matter. Case in point, this just came out this afternoon:

Trump to hit Canada with new 50% tariff

This person cannot be considered a rational actor.

 

[HIjol]

Don't forget, there is no rationality here

THISTHISTHISTHIS!!! ^^^

 

[Owain Taggart]

NATO is a defensive alliance. Unless the US was invading us, I'm not sure why NATO would get involved at all, nor would they probably have any power to do anything about it anyway.

True. I'm just saying that using wildfire smoke as a reason for a sanction is such an extreme case. It wouldn't be a proportional response. Most of what he says doesn't come to pass anyhow. Including the recent 50% tariffs that were struck down. He seems to use everything as an excuse to do something else. It's uh.. smoke and mirrors.

Don't forget, there is no rationality here. We are basically dealing with an overgrown narcissistic toddler, who may or may not be suffering from the effects of dementia. But even without dementia, he's always been a terrible person.

Again, true. I guess it's the part of how you get from wildfires to sanctions that just fry my brain. Like where does that even come from?

And he has a very personal animosity towards our country. And all the MAGA Republican suck-ups are going to adopt that same animosity in order to try to curry his favour, just like they've fallen in line with all his other craziness. And the right-wing propaganda machine is working to try and spread that animosity to their supporters. And in a lot of cases, it's working.

Still have no real ideas to why he does though. Seems to be his favourite pastime.

In a bit of a good news, Ford has announced that Massachusetts has agreed to send help to battle the wildfires.

And in a surprising twist, Hoekstra has actually been level-headed about the wildfires and sent a message calling for a shared response.

Over 800 wildfires are burning across Canada, with the largest alone rivaling the size of Washington, D.C., sending heavy smoke across the country and into communities on both sides of the border. Canadians living near these fires are already facing hazardous air quality, and that same smoke is now settling over the United States, including my home state of Michigan. This is a shared challenge, and it demands a shared response.

This challenge knows no borders. The United States will continue to coordinate closely with Canada, just as we have for more than four decades of shared wildfire emergencies.

Full message here:

Technical Difficulties

I do wonder if someone finally realized the rhetoric wasn't helpful in this siituation.

Now, a sad bit of news: it seems that the 2nd First Nations Community to be having wildfire troubles , Whitewater Lake First Nation, 250km north of Thunder Bay, has been completely destroyed.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/whitewater-lake-first-nation-wildfire-9.7276086

 

[camdudetenger2018]

looks like donnie j trump is at it again with his resent antics hijinks and shenanigans about the north aka canada

 

[Ovation]

looks like donnie j trump is at it again with his resent antics hijinks and shenanigans about the north aka canada

Does it? What gave it away?

 

[Owain Taggart]

looks like donnie j trump is at it again with his resent antics hijinks and shenanigans about the north aka canada

When in doubt, just blame Canada! It's the popular thing to do! We are America's Punching Bag. If Donnie's lost his dentures, and he can't have his McDonald's, that's a big bad problem that we can't have, so blame Canada! If Donnie can't find his words, suddenly it's not Alzheimer's, but guess what?? Blame Canada! Somehow we're to blame for that too! Tariffs, you say? Oh yeah, he loves that words. Sprinkle it around like confetti, it will solve all the problems, and Canada's getting loads, you betcha.

 

[Marc]

When in doubt, just blame Canada! It's the popular thing to do! We are America's Punching Bag. If Donnie's lost his dentures, and he can't have his McDonald's, that's a big bad problem that we can't have, so blame Canada! If Donnie can't find his words, suddenly it's not Alzheimer's, but guess what?? Blame Canada! Somehow we're to blame for that too! Tariffs, you say? Oh yeah, he loves that words. Sprinkle it around like confetti, it will solve all the problems, and Canada's getting loads, you betcha.

of course it's blame Canada.

After all you don't expect the donny and the gop to actually take responsiblity for their actions?

Personally responsiblity is merely something they preach to others but don't practice themselves.

 

[Owain Taggart]

of course it's blame Canada.

After all you don't expect the donny and the gop to actually take responsiblity for their actions?

Personally responsiblity is merely something they preach to others but don't practice themselves.

That bit is satire Of course I don't expect them to. Not in a million years.

 

[Marc]

That bit is satire

unfortunately trump has blurred the line so satire and real life is wiped.

also just reading an op-ed in the The Star that wonders if factor in the latest trump tariffs were a result of him getting booed at the World Cup final and Carney didn't cos we all know that trump's skin makes rice paper look like parchment.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Yep, agreed, which is why I had originally thought it was satire when the republicans from Minnesota were had drafted that letter to Carney because it had been so far off the left field. Every new thing he comes up with just doesn't feel real. That was kind of the inspiration.

 

[camdudetenger2018]

Does it? What gave it away?

lol lol

 

[camdudetenger2018]

When in doubt, just blame Canada! It's the popular thing to do! We are America's Punching Bag. If Donnie's lost his dentures, and he can't have his McDonald's, that's a big bad problem that we can't have, so blame Canada! If Donnie can't find his words, suddenly it's not Alzheimer's, but guess what?? Blame Canada! Somehow we're to blame for that too! Tariffs, you say? Oh yeah, he loves that words. Sprinkle it around like confetti, it will solve all the problems, and Canada's getting loads, you betcha.

lol donald and mc donalds

get it lol lol donald at mc donalds

 

[Avro Arrow]

lol lol

lol donald and mc donalds

get it lol lol donald at mc donalds

Hi camdudetenger2018

I am kind of unsure what to do here. Making two posts in a row just to basically say "lol" is kind of spamming. Let me quote the relevant rule here, and I will bold the important part for this case:

No Spamming. You can't post the same thing multiple times on the board, or post the same thing over and over in a certain thread or forum, or continuously make posts that have no real content or relevance to what is being discussed. Spamming can even just be posting too much--as a general rule, don't post more than two or three threads in a forum within a reasonable length of time. Just posting stuff like "Okay, " or "I agree!" could be spamming. Contribute to a discussion; don't just build post count.

You can see, I trust, how the posts of yours I have quoted are kind of low-content? I know we have had discussions about spamming before. Admittedly, previously it was more around the "post the same thing over and over in a certain thread" part. But it's all part of the same rule. This is a discussion board, and we want to encourage discussion, but these kinds of low-content posts don't really add much.

Why don't you share your thoughts on the current state of relations between the US and Canada, or something like that? Or if international relations isn't your jam, there is other Canada-related content you could discuss instead.

 

[Owain Taggart]

lol donald and mc donalds

get it lol lol donald at mc donalds

Well, he does love his McDonalds. It's no secret. I think he'd declare a national emergency if he couldn't have any.

 

[Avro Arrow]

And in a surprising twist, Hoekstra has actually been level-headed about the wildfires and sent a message calling for a shared response.

I'm not sure what's up with ol' Pete, he's been sounding almost... reasonable(?) lately. Here he is with a rare moment of introspection:

Hoekstra says Canadians ‘don’t think very highly’ of U.S. as Trump threatens new tariffs

Washington’s ambassador to Canada Pete Hoekstra pitched his vision for a way to move forward after U.S. President Donald Trump’s recent threats against Canada.

www.ctvnews.ca

No, we don't think very highly of the US right now. Now, do you understand why that is?

What else? How about more bridge drama? In light of recent events, we're no longer celebrating the opening with the US, and are just going to celebrate by ourselves. Apparently it is still opening on the 27th, though.

Canada, U.S. no longer celebrating Gordie Howe Bridge opening together on Friday

The federal government says that in light of U.S. President Donald Trump’s latest tariff threats, Canada will not be celebrating the opening of the Gordie Howe International Bridge with the United States.

www.ctvnews.ca

I don't think it's been mentioned in this thread yet, but as the article says, Bloomberg has seen the text of the new agreement on the bridge, and it apparently doesn't actually support Carney's statements on the subject, because there is nothing in there about covering debt-servicing costs. So it may be that the initial interpretation was the correct one, and Carney's was the spin. People are calling for the public release of the agreement, but nothing has been released yet.

And to save the most infuriating till last...

I know he's thrown out this little chestnut before, but it's maddening every time it comes out of his mouth. I think it actually strengthens our resolve when he spouts nonsense like this.

Hopefully we have some retaliatory measures being announced soon. I feel that if Trudeau was still in charge, they would have already been made public by now. Hopefully Carney doesn't just capitulate like he's done before. As we've seen, capitulation gets us nothing.

 

[Owain Taggart]

I'm not sure what's up with ol' Pete, he's been sounding almost... reasonable(?) lately. Here he is with a rare moment of introspection:

Yeah, I dunno. It's odd. I did watch an interview with him after I'd posted that, dated a few days after he'd written that letter, and he seemed back to his usual tricks. In fact, he was asked about the letter, and the interviewer seemed impressed that he'd managed to take a different tack. It's almost as if he thought he could act as a mediator between the two countries, but went right back in defense of Trump and his tariffs. I think he was trying to save face with the letter. He knows his reputation here is not so good, so maybe trying to score some points? But in that interview, even then there was some hesitation when talking about the tariffs and he almost had a look of embarrassment on his face. See what happens when you can be nice, Hoekstra? or maybe I'm just looking too much into it.

I know he's thrown out this little chestnut before, but it's maddening every time it comes out of his mouth. I think it actually strengthens our resolve when he spouts nonsense like this.

If he loves us so much, then he would stop with the flagrant rhetoric and disrespect that he's shown us since the start of his second term. And yes, our resolve seems to deepen everytime he comes up with new ways to bring back the 51st State rhetoric.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Leave it to the Beaverton to put the mood of the nation into words...

Canadians just so goddamn tired of this bullshit

CANADA - Canadians across the country have collectively unleashed a sigh of agonized frustration while simultaneously stating "Again with this bullshit?"

thebeaverton.com

The article doesn't even mention anyone's name even once, yet we all know who's being talked about.