Why Do People Prefer the Earlier Seasons?

[Navaros]

I prefer the early Seasons because it seemed like they were at least trying to give the illusion of providing a story to the series and sticking to the premise a little bit.

Whereas the later Seasons are mostly "holo-novels" which are nonsense IMO and other similar pointless filler that has nothing to do with telling any sort of meaningful story.

 

[TedShatner10]

I prefer the early Seasons because it seemed like they were at least trying to give the illusion of providing a story to the series and sticking to the premise a little bit.

Whereas the later Seasons are mostly "holo-novels" which are nonsense IMO and other similar pointless filler that has nothing to do with telling any sort of meaningful story.

Like I said, Jeri Taylor revelled in holodeck themed episodes and filler crap more so than Brannon Braga did when he was more tuned in around about S4/5. I found "Bride of Chaotica" to be very good as holodeck episode though, with a good guest star turn from the late Nicholas Worth.

And while the also much lamented Piller made the first two seasons fairly credible, the Kazon were mostly risible as a alien race. And while the cast members other than Ryan or Picardo were much stronger than given credit for, I got the impression the writer's tried to make their characters very good, but after three years they failed to a certain degree and the secondary characters were being squandered long before Seven turned up (as mentioned before in Season Five, the ensemble cast was much stronger as a group and less top heavy than I remembered them to be).

 

[kimc]

Janeway got equal screen time to that of Seven and the EMH. It was because Kate Mulgrew fought to get that much screen time equal to theirs that the other cast members suffered.

She's probably the first Trek captain who had to fight for equal time. Also, she may have been on the screen saying "Fire phasers" but she had precious few plot lines devoted to her.

See...this is exactly my issue. I don't think Kate Mulgrew should have had to fight for screentime "equal to Seven and the EMH". That was the whole problem!

There is a reason why in each of the Trek shows, the person who plays the Captain is first in the credits and the rest are in alphabetical order. And that reason is because the actor who plays the captain is the main star. The shows are meant to be ensemble shows...but the captains are meant to be just a tiny step above everyone else....and in each case, the person who played the captain had more important acting credits behind them. And this included Kate Mulgrew, who was a regular on a soap for years and had been in a few major films as well.

Therefore, Jeri Ryan and Robert Picardo were the ones out of line here, not Kate Mulgrew! Jeri Ryan and Robert Picardo were the ones who 'caused the other characters to suffer' - Kate Mulgrew was only insisting upon what was hers to begin with!

Kate Mulgrew shouldn't have had to 'fight for screentime' against those two - and the fact that she was placed in that position is an insult, frankly. Kate, being the consummate professional that she was, did not let her performances suffer...but she was the one wronged here...along with Beltran, Tim Russ, RDM, Roxann Dawson, etc. And she was wronged at Jeri Ryan and Robert Picardo's expense.

Oh, I totally agree!

 

[exodus]

Janeway got equal screen time to that of Seven and the EMH. It was because Kate Mulgrew fought to get that much screen time equal to theirs that the other cast members suffered.

She's probably the first Trek captain who had to fight for equal time. Also, she may have been on the screen saying "Fire phasers" but she had precious few plot lines devoted to her.

See...this is exactly my issue. I don't think Kate Mulgrew should have had to fight for screentime "equal to Seven and the EMH". That was the whole problem!

There is a reason why in each of the Trek shows, the person who plays the Captain is first in the credits and the rest are in alphabetical order. And that reason is because the actor who plays the captain is the main star. The shows are meant to be ensemble shows...but the captains are meant to be just a tiny step above everyone else....and in each case, the person who played the captain had more important acting credits behind them. And this included Kate Mulgrew, who was a regular on a soap for years and had been in a few major films as well.

Therefore, Jeri Ryan and Robert Picardo were the ones out of line here, not Kate Mulgrew! Jeri Ryan and Robert Picardo were the ones who 'caused the other characters to suffer' - Kate Mulgrew was only insisting upon what was hers to begin with!

Kate Mulgrew shouldn't have had to 'fight for screentime' against those two - and the fact that she was placed in that position is an insult, frankly. Kate, being the consummate professional that she was, did not let her performances suffer...but she was the one wronged here...along with Beltran, Tim Russ, RDM, Roxann Dawson, etc. And she was wronged at Jeri Ryan and Robert Picardo's expense.

What about Shatner who took lines from his other co-stars which caused the now famous tension between him and his other cast mates?

Plus neither Stewart nor Brookes felt threatened by their other co-workers the way Mulgrew did about Ryan. Brookes is known for standing up for his coworkers. It was due to him Colm Meaney was allowed to do films and DS9, even when the filming conflicted. This is why Mulgrew/Ryan's behind the sceens conflicts are also famous. Mulgrew has even openly stated too the fans no less of how she is dead set against new younger actress stealing her spot light. The writers & producers gave her what was hers(her name still gets top billing on the show & in representation), it wasn't good enough for her and wanted more than her fair share. Blaming her "co-stars" and openly feuding with them is absurd.

With Mulgrew it isn't about her role, it's about her ego.

BTW, Russ, Dawson & McNiel all learned to become directors thanks to their time on Voyager, which probably gives them a higher income. That's some way too suffer.

 

[kimc]

Which thread is this again?

****checks title****

If we could, let's keep this about the early seasons of Voyager and why people may or may not prefer them. Yes, I know I agreed with PKTrekGirl about how the captain shouldn't have to fight for screen time (which in my view is one of the reasons why I prefer the earlier seasons) but dredging up the whole Mulgrew/Ryan "feud" and going down that path could lead to some serious thread derailment.

UNLESS, you want to discuss how you think the relationships among the cast member affected performances one way or the other in the later seasons vs. the earlier ones.

 

[teya]

And they most certainly didn't give Janeway the screentime she deserved as captain. The captain should get more screentime than any of the other characters.

Janeway got equal screen time to that of Seven and the EMH. It was because Kate Mulgrew fought to get that much screen time equal to theirs that the other cast members suffered.

I did a line count while watching the DVDs.

Kate was always *way* ahead of the rest of the cast in lines. Now, there are individual episodes where Jeri has more (like, "One," for instance), but over a season, Kate is always far and away the line leader in every single season.

And for all the arguing about how Seven took over the show, Jeri was a distant third in the final season behind Kate and Picardo.

ETA: And sorry, kimc, if you want to warn me for posting this after your counsel, go right ahead, but I thought it important to counter the conventional wisdom which is not borne out by the facts.

Another fan also did a line count and she posted them on her site. You can view the facts here: it's obvious from the counts that Janeway had more lines per season than any other character--including Seven and the EMH.

http://www.chakoteya.net/Voyager/LineCountS4-S7.htm

Oh, and Kate "fought for screentime" from no one. She was actually on record as to wanting *less* screentime in seasons 6 & 7 to spend time with her new husband.

 

[kimc]

ETA: And sorry, kimc, if you want to warn me for posting this after your counsel, go right ahead, but I thought it important to counter the conventional wisdom which is not borne out by the facts.

I would but I guess I'm too floored by the fact you actually sat and counted lines.

However, since I myself am finding it difficult at this point to follow my own counsel I'm going to give you a friendly to move the discussion to the thread I'm about to open called "Did Janeway get shorted in the later seasons?"

In the meantime, everyone feel free to continue talking about (checks thread title) the earlier seasons.

 

[exodus]

The one thing I do miss from earily eps. that got written out in later ones was the interaction and bond between Chakotay & Be'Lanna.

It seemed like once she started dating Tom, the friendship between those too just ended.

 

[TheMasterOfOrion]

They spent way too much effort deconstructing the Borg

 

[Josh_Lyman]

I don't. I prefer seasons 4-7.

 

[Mrs Paris]

seasons 4-7 were much better than seasons 1-3

The early seasons had some fantastic episodes like Faces, Meld, Death Wish, Future's End, and several others. The later seasons did average many more fantastic episodes than the early seasons, episodes like The Gift, Mortal Coil, Message in a Bottle, Extreme Risk, Bride of Chaotica, Barge of the Dead, Fury, Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy to name a few were far better than anything the early seasons had to offer.

Add to that the dumping of a dead-weight character and the addition of a more interesting, better looking character played by a much better actress.

Also, in the later seasons you can see that the cast got along better, they knew each other better, they knew their characters better. It all adds up for better episodes.

 

[Lynx]

Some exaggerations above.

Calling Kes a "dead-weight character" (I assume that the remark is aimed at her, not Seska) is actually unfair. Kes did contribute a lot to the show. She saved the ship in some episodes and wasn't even the first choice to be dumped when the producers came up with the stupid idea to dump a main character to make room for Seven Of Nine. They should have added Seven but not dumped anyone.

The comment that the cast did get along better and the somewhat rosy-eyed view of the later seasons isn't entirely true either. Without going into details and without blaming anyone, there were obviously some tensions in the camp and some of the actors were also dissatisfied with the development for their characters in the show.

I also think that many fans like the first three seasons because all the main characters were used better. In the later seasons, the focus was on three characters while the other were shoved in the background.

 

[Mrs Paris]

Some exaggerations above.

Calling Kes a "dead-weight character" (I assume that the remark is aimed at her, not Seska) is actually unfair. Kes did contribute a lot to the show. She saved the ship in some episodes and wasn't even the first choice to be dumped when the producers came up with the stupid idea to dump a main character to make room for Seven Of Nine. They should have added Seven but not dumped anyone.

The comment that the cast did get along better and the somewhat rosy-eyed view of the later seasons isn't entirely true either. Without going into details and without blaming anyone, there were obviously some tensions in the camp and some of the actors were also dissatisfied with the development for their characters in the show.

I also think that many fans like the first three seasons because all the main characters were used better. In the later seasons, the focus was on three characters while the other were shoved in the background.

listen, if you don't agree with me, you can say so without pissing all over EVERYTHING I say. If you think I'm wrong the polite thing to say is "In my opinion you are wrong........." What I say is no more incorrect than anything you say since neither of us worked for paramount at the time Voyager was being filmed and neither of us knows 100% for sure what went on behind the scenes. All I'm going on is actor interviews and convention appearances in which the actors describe the later seasons as being more fun and comfortable for everyone. But I guess you know better than KATE MULGREW don't you

 

[exodus]

I'm starting to have flashbacks.

 

[kimc]

All I'm going on is actor interviews and convention appearances in which the actors describe the later seasons as being more fun and comfortable for everyone. But I guess you know better than KATE MULGREW don't you

Okay, this is getting tedious. If you have some links by all means post them. Otherwise, knock it off already.

 

[TrekNut87]

I liked seasons 1-4. My biggest reason for choosing these is the writing. Each story seemed to flow very well with very few "bumps" so to speak. The later seasons seemed to lose that flow and the storyline was either all over the place or recycled from earlier episodes.

 

[Mrs Paris]

All I'm going on is actor interviews and convention appearances in which the actors describe the later seasons as being more fun and comfortable for everyone. But I guess you know better than KATE MULGREW don't you

Okay, this is getting tedious. If you have some links by all means post them. Otherwise, knock it off already.

knock what off, defending my statements?

 

[Lynx]

I'm starting to have flashbacks.

"Flashback".

That was a very good season 3 episode.

A time-jumping episode somewhat different from similar episodes. The idea of an adventure based on Tuvok's memory is a bit wrid but works out dine. It was also nice to see good, old Sulu again.

 

[Mrs Paris]

I'm starting to have flashbacks.

"Flashback".

That was a very good season 3 episode.

A time-jumping episode somewhat different from similar episodes. The idea of an adventure based on Tuvok's memory is a bit wrid but works out dine. It was also nice to see good, old Sulu again.

I love when Janeway turns to Tuvok and says "you never brought me any tea"

 

[exodus]

I'm starting to have flashbacks.

"Flashback".

That was a very good season 3 episode.

A time-jumping episode somewhat different from similar episodes. The idea of an adventure based on Tuvok's memory is a bit wrid but works out dine. It was also nice to see good, old Sulu again.

Love, love, love Sulu.

Love, love, love Tuvok but I was so unbelieveably dissappointed by this ep. it's actually one of the few I can't watch.


This is coming from someone that can tolerate "Spirit Folk" and "The Thaw".