Is it time to put Star Trek to rest?

[Campe]

Well, if you have had six lights shining in your backyard during dark winter nights and one evening you realize that only two of them are functional, then you also find the backyard a lot less lighten up than it used to be.

What an interesting way to look at this. I would change the lightbulbs if it were that bad. In your personal case, try something new. LED bulbs for your backyard. Something that doesn’t involve media for your life. Find a group or a hobby that involves people. Just a thought.

 

[I am not Herbert]

There's making the world better and writing one's way to...

This strikes me as an irresponsible thing to say in a public forum. In no way is Kes/Jennifer Lien a two-year old girl, as we understand that term in the human, real-world sense.

 

[Lynx]

There's making the world better and writing one's way to goon an unhealthy obsession over a two year old girl. I'm not sure what the uncanny middle ground is but dear God, please find it.

What a little ray of sunshine you are on this forum!
And obsessed by age and numbers as well.

I must say that I find your comment insulting and provokative, as most of your other comments in this thread.

But when out of opinions and suggestions and the debating skill don't exist, there's always personal attacks to come up with.

And please don't drag God into your rantings.

What an interesting way to look at this. I would change the lightbulbs if it were that bad. In your personal case, try something new. LED bulbs for your backyard. Something that doesn’t involve media for your life. Find a group or a hobby that involves people. Just a thought.

I do have a lot of hobbies outside Star Trek which includes people! In fact, I'm going to an interesting event this afternoon where they wioll be a lot of people, good friends among them!

As for the lightbulbs, what to do if lightbulbs aren't available?
The 2020's are a lot like the Communist societies with empty shops and the comment "there isn't".

Anyways, I think it's time to go back to basics, to the main point of this debate.

If Kurtzman and his gang are such clever people as many here thinks, why is it so impossible to come up with a series which has all the qualities that TOS, TNG, DS9 and early VOY had, like good and exciting stories, a more optimistic view than the current doom and gloommscenarios plus likeable characters?

Star Trek is supposed to be about exploring and adventures in a better future, not about today's doom, gloom and problems transferred into the future.

This strikes me as an irresponsible thing to say in a public forum. In no way is Kes/Jennifer Lien a two-year old girl, as we understand that term in the human, real-world sense.

Not only irresponsible but actually insulting.

As I mentioned before, there's a lot of instigating going on.

 

[fireproof78]

Kurtzman and his gang are such clever people as many here thinks, why is it so impossible to come up with a series which has all the qualities that TOS, TNG, DS9 and early VOY had, like good and exciting stories, a more optimistic view of things and likeable characters?

That's highly subjective.

Pike is extremely likeable and SNW is very optimistic.

Burnham is an encouraging character that I think validates many who went through complex trauma and succeeds.

Lower Decks is fantastically optimistic and has tht best core crew since Kirk, Spock and McCoy.

Optimistic view doesn't mean things are not hard. It means rejecting the easier in the favor of a better result. TOS taught that; man is not meant for paradise.

 

[Lynx]

That's highly subjective.

Pike is extremely likeable and SNW is very optimistic.

Burnham is an encouraging character that I think validates many who went through complex trauma and succeeds.

Lower Decks is fantastically optimistic and has tht best core crew since Kirk, Spock and McCoy.

Optimistic view doesn't mean things are not hard. It means rejecting the easier in the favor of a better result. TOS taught that; man is not meant for paradise.

I have to give you some points about Pike and SNW here. I actually found it quite watchable from time to time.

So far I haven't watched Lower Decks so I won't comment on it.

I don't mean that things would or should be over-optimistic. Just more optimistic than the current trends.

Something more like TOS, TNG, DS9 and early VOY.

 

[fireproof78]

I have to give you some points about Pike and SNW here. I actually found it quite watchable from time to time.

So far I haven't watched Lower Decks so I won't comment on it.

I don't mean that things would or should be over-optimistic. Just more optimistic than the current trends.

Something more like TOS, TNG, DS9 and early VOY.

Soo...

Strange New Worlds, Lower Decks and Prodigy and Academy thus far.

 

[Campe]

Soo...

Strange New Worlds, Lower Decks and Prodigy and Academy thus far.

All extremely optimistic and enjoyable.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Even in their darkest moments, the story has always been how Burnham, latter-day Picard and friends came out of their darkest places.

Happy bliss ending in happy bliss with happy bliss in the middle does not make for particularly riveting character arcs.

 

[1001001]

There's making the world better and writing one's way to goon an unhealthy obsession over a two year old girl. I'm not sure what the uncanny middle ground is but dear God, please find it.

Come on, man. That's not cool.

 

[Lynx]

Soo...

Strange New Worlds, Lower Decks and Prodigy and Academy thus far.

But they can't be compared with masterpieces as TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY.

it's like watching a cover band doing AC/DC or Iron Maiden songs. Maybe enjoyable if they are really good at it. But never the same as the original.

I remember seeing a Jimi Hendrix Experience cover band once. They were quite good at it.
But I had to close my eyes to enjoy it.

Why? Because the bass player was singing and that looked a bit odd.

Anyway, as I wrote before I haven't watched Lower Decks (yet) so i can't comment on it.
SNW wasn' that bad. But the "replacement actors"who played Spock, Uhura and other TOS actors did put me off a bit.

What I've seen or heard of PRO is not that bad. Star trek as a comic with cartoons instead of characters might work fine and be OK for many people. But not exactly what I want. I like cartoons, especially if they are funny. But when it comes to Star Trek, I prefer the "real thing".

But what i've seen of SFA don't make me wanna watch it.

All extremely optimistic and enjoyable.

Optimistic? Maybe.
Enjoyable. Well....... I'm not so sure about that.

Even in their darkest moments, the story has always been how Burnham, latter-day Picard and friends came out of their darkest places.

Happy bliss ending in happy bliss with happy bliss in the middle does not make for particularly riveting character arcs.

I never liked Burnham. I found her a bit hysterical.
And DSC was downright horrible.

As it is now, Startrek dont have the same appeal to people as it had back in the days. I mean we had three series which were world-wide known and liked. Actually four when we count TOS which I guess gained many new wievers when TNG came along.

All those series were also possible to watch on the bigger channels in many countries.

I remember sitting at a railway station in Germany, watching the TNG episode genesis on a wide-screen TV in the station while waiting for a train.

This can never happen now because all current Star Trek series are on different streaming services which have to be paid for. Not to mention that the fan bases of those series are fragmented and not so big as they were in the 90.s.

What Trek need to become what it once was is basically a new series like TNG which could become a shot in the arm with energy for a half-sleeping franchise.

 

[Campe]

Optimistic? Maybe.
Enjoyable. Well....... I'm not so sure about that.

It’s called an opinion. It’s really okay for people to have ones different than yours.

 

[fireproof78]

they can't be compared with masterpieces as TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY.

So I don't.

Simple exercise. I enjoy art for what it is not what I wish it to be. If it isn't entertaining then I move on.

Simple.

 

[cooleddie74]

Oh no. Someone else loves a Trek series I don't.

The poor children. What will we do.

 

[Campe]

Damn them and their positive opinions! Damn them all to hellllllllll-uh!

/Montalban

 

[Mage]

It’s called an opinion. It’s really okay for people to have ones different than yours.

Yeah I've given up on explaining that.

 

[donners22]

But they can't be compared with masterpieces as TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY.

it's like watching a cover band doing AC/DC or Iron Maiden songs. Maybe enjoyable if they are really good at it. But never the same as the original.

That's a rather ironic comment, because that's largely what Voyager was, a pale imitation of TNG. It threw away most of its distinctiveness within a few episodes to rehash the same tired Berman-era formula - a formula, let's remember, which ran the franchise into the ground. Modern Trek came about because the Berman era had driven away so many fans.

If subjective tastes can veer to the extreme of considering Voyager a "masterpiece", it shouldn't be hard to understand that people enjoy modern Trek at least as much. Frankly, I'd take most of modern Trek over the Berman era.

The optimism aspect doesn't check out either. Discovery becomes downright mawkishly optimistic, to a disappointing extent as it lost much of the edge and distinctiveness which made it such a breath of fresh air.

 

[Soong-type Android]

I don't see why Star Trek needs to be put to rest. Like any franchise, it can always be reinvented. They can always bring in new people with new ideas on what to do with it.

 

[Shawnster]

It’s called an opinion. It’s really okay for people to have ones different than yours.

Well, that's your opinion

 

[Lynx]

It’s called an opinion. It’s really okay for people to have ones different than yours.

I've never stated anything else.

So I don't.

Simple exercise. I enjoy art for what it is not what I wish it to be. If it isn't entertaining then I move on.

Simple.

Yes, that what I should have done too.
The sad thing is that I find nothing to move on to right now.

That's a rather ironic comment, because that's largely what Voyager was, a pale imitation of TNG. It threw away most of its distinctiveness within a few episodes to rehash the same tired Berman-era formula - a formula, let's remember, which ran the franchise into the ground. Modern Trek came about because the Berman era had driven away so many fans.

It wasn't "The Berman-era formula" which ran the franchise into the ground.

It was the stupid decision to create a retro series after VOY which did it.

Series like TNG, DS9 and VOY had and still has a lot of followers which most of today's Trek haven't.

If subjective tastes can veer to the extreme of considering Voyager a "masterpiece", it shouldn't be hard to understand that people enjoy modern Trek at least as much. Frankly, I'd take most of modern Trek over the Berman era.

As for VOY, it had a great premise and great characters. Unfortunately, they messed up that premise when they tried to make it to "light TNG" and also shoved most of the main characters, except for three of them in the background.

I've written many critical posts about Berman and his gang during rthe years. But I must admit that I'd take even some of the worst of their stuff over the "modern Trek".

The optimism aspect doesn't check out either. Discovery becomes downright mawkishly optimistic, to a disappointing extent as it lost much of the edge and distinctiveness which made it such a breath of fresh air.

I never watched the later episodes of that series so I can't comment on them.

 

[I am not Herbert]

I'm obviously not a moderator, but dare I suggest that it is this thread that needs to be put to rest? A lot of interesting points of view, but I feel like everyone has kind of said their piece at this point. Maybe someone can suggest a different phrasing of the initial question to get things moving in a more productive direction.