No joke. It's 800 years old!
Spoilers Star Trek: Starfleet Academy 1x05 – “Series Acclimation Mil”
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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The dumb and annoying stuff was at times almost unwatchably bad, but the good scenes - man, were they A- or even S-tier. Not sure what grade I'd give such a chaotic and messy episode, but the final act made it worth it.
I wonder if they're leaving Ben and Kasidy's kid's existence open-ended for a reason. Could her existence be part of the secret Dax is protecting? I know it will probably never be answered, but I like to think her absence in the Sisko line wasn't just a very large oversight.
I wonder how many pages this thread will go before the small universe complaining begins. It's almost as annoying as the endless CANON VIOLATION regurgitations.
I wonder how many pages this thread will go before the small universe complaining begins. It's almost as annoying as the endless CANON VIOLATION regurgitations.
Looks like Sam touched a very sensitive subject in the Doctor. He clearly hurts over losing so many treasured friends over the centuries and doesn't want to openly discuss the deaths that have shaped him.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I did end up throwing the 10 in there, but feel it was not deserved.
Lower Decks was always pretty good about the references being fun and impactful without feeling like navel gazing. Tawny Newsome clearly took that to heart, because this could have gone down really, really poorly.
But it didn't. It worked. Really, really well.
Yeah you've got the stupid cadet stuff (though drunk Sam was great) and the awful B plot. But the search for Sisko stuff was brilliant, and the way it drove Sam's own narrative forward was top notch. This is the first time the far future setting has really been mined in a way that was both referential, interesting, and organic.
I loved this one. Though bumpy in spots, this was damn good Star Trek. And as a meta story, talking about how Avery Brooks as a black Star Trek captain influenced people, it was beautiful. This was the tribute Sisko deserved. And it didn't actually tell lock anything in if they ever work a way to actually do some DS9 follow up in the 25th century. Good, good stuff.
But it didn't. It worked. Really, really well.
Yeah you've got the stupid cadet stuff (though drunk Sam was great) and the awful B plot. But the search for Sisko stuff was brilliant, and the way it drove Sam's own narrative forward was top notch. This is the first time the far future setting has really been mined in a way that was both referential, interesting, and organic.
I loved this one. Though bumpy in spots, this was damn good Star Trek. And as a meta story, talking about how Avery Brooks as a black Star Trek captain influenced people, it was beautiful. This was the tribute Sisko deserved. And it didn't actually tell lock anything in if they ever work a way to actually do some DS9 follow up in the 25th century. Good, good stuff.
Couple of thoughts:
I’m unclear just what that final conversation with Jake was, exactly: Is he the Jake-in-her-head she imagines from reading the book? Is he a holographic projection from it? Is he a visitation?
And beautifully respectful as it was, I’m a little bothered that he’s ultimately entirely shaped by being Benjamin’s son, instead of that just being an important part of his character. Even Anslem is now retroactively about that. It fits the story, but it’s like in the end he’s only that — I don’t believe that for a minute, but that’s basically how he’s summarized here. (I realize of course that he’s ultimately not the focus.)
I’m unclear just what that final conversation with Jake was, exactly: Is he the Jake-in-her-head she imagines from reading the book? Is he a holographic projection from it? Is he a visitation?
And beautifully respectful as it was, I’m a little bothered that he’s ultimately entirely shaped by being Benjamin’s son, instead of that just being an important part of his character. Even Anslem is now retroactively about that. It fits the story, but it’s like in the end he’s only that — I don’t believe that for a minute, but that’s basically how he’s summarized here. (I realize of course that he’s ultimately not the focus.)
I think that may well be the case. She'd already accessed the Bajoran Orb and it went dark, so maybe that meant a connection was made to someone in the Celestial Temple, but it turned out to be Jake rather than his father?
Maybe. Does he get to go there, as a one-quarter Prophet?
It seems they don't care about using Warp Drive within Atmosphere, they just showed a Random Shuttle going Warp right above San Francisco pier.
The HMS Bounty went to warp right after retrieving George and Gracie, and was well within Earth's atmosphere at the time.
If my avatar and forum username don't make it clear: this episode is what I have been waiting for. This moment was one thing that made me want to watch this show: the clip in the trailer asking the fate of Benjamin Sisko. I thought "is this true? Can we really be getting a final answer on a thread left hanging from DS9's finale?"
The episode was not bad minus the usual childish Marvelization of Trek "jokes." It was really great seeing Jake and (a new) Dax again. This was definitely a love letter to DS9 and specifically Benjamin Sisko. I never thought I would see DS9 get so much respect and love. During the 90s, DS9 was definitely the unloved middle child of Star Trek.
I did find it odd they omitted the fact that Jake has a sibling... but I guess it wasn't important to the plot (they could have at least fixed the family tree).
There is one aspect I thought was awful. Not the B plot, not the "comedy", but the fact that this episode all but confirmed that Benjamin Sisko never returned. I think most Trekkies know that Avery Brooks objected to the original dialogue where Sisko said he would not return and live out his existence with the Prophets. Wanting to reinforce positive images of African-American fathers - a rewrite was created so that Sisko said he would eventually return to Kassidy.
"It's hard to say. Maybe a year. Maybe yesterday. But I will be back."
Him not returning kind of seems like a slap in his face for the request he had made. I know he gave permission to use a voice sample but I wonder how he felt they solidified that Sisko never returned (or if he did - that knowledge has been lost to the UFP and Bajor).
My head cannon is he did return but he lived quietly on Bajor with his family and just kept it a secret from everyone outside of the DS9 crew. Ala Captain America going back in time in Endgame and just living a secret life with Peggy.
The episode was not bad minus the usual childish Marvelization of Trek "jokes." It was really great seeing Jake and (a new) Dax again. This was definitely a love letter to DS9 and specifically Benjamin Sisko. I never thought I would see DS9 get so much respect and love. During the 90s, DS9 was definitely the unloved middle child of Star Trek.
I did find it odd they omitted the fact that Jake has a sibling... but I guess it wasn't important to the plot (they could have at least fixed the family tree).
There is one aspect I thought was awful. Not the B plot, not the "comedy", but the fact that this episode all but confirmed that Benjamin Sisko never returned. I think most Trekkies know that Avery Brooks objected to the original dialogue where Sisko said he would not return and live out his existence with the Prophets. Wanting to reinforce positive images of African-American fathers - a rewrite was created so that Sisko said he would eventually return to Kassidy.
"It's hard to say. Maybe a year. Maybe yesterday. But I will be back."
Him not returning kind of seems like a slap in his face for the request he had made. I know he gave permission to use a voice sample but I wonder how he felt they solidified that Sisko never returned (or if he did - that knowledge has been lost to the UFP and Bajor).
My head cannon is he did return but he lived quietly on Bajor with his family and just kept it a secret from everyone outside of the DS9 crew. Ala Captain America going back in time in Endgame and just living a secret life with Peggy.
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Well, the Capitol was just recently moved from Paris, and In France/Germany etc. one can order wine and beer at 16, if someone over 18 is present so......
I guess nobody seems to care anymore, the warnings to not use Warp Drive within a Planet's Atmosphere was very much over-blown.
It did annoy me that they kept that open ended.
I gave this a 7. There is so much more they could have done with the concept. The eventual A story was good enough, the bar stuff was fun but was in the wrong episode. And the C story with Kel Rek - I forwarded through.
The Dax connection - it's a stretch and I am going to assume that she got the symbiont subsequent to the events of "Forget me not" - but Tawny could just as easily have been a human host, or a half human/Trill - that would have enabled the reveal to have still worked. I think they could have got away with a "She looks like Beckett Mariner" "No I don't see it" line in there too.
Anyway - seeing Cirroc again - easy to forget what a wonderful part he played in DS9, and he's grown into a superb human.
And yes, when the DS9 theme was played in the closing titles, I literally had tears.
Like Galaxy says above - I would have liked the quiet and secret return concept.
The Dax connection - it's a stretch and I am going to assume that she got the symbiont subsequent to the events of "Forget me not" - but Tawny could just as easily have been a human host, or a half human/Trill - that would have enabled the reveal to have still worked. I think they could have got away with a "She looks like Beckett Mariner" "No I don't see it" line in there too.
Anyway - seeing Cirroc again - easy to forget what a wonderful part he played in DS9, and he's grown into a superb human.
And yes, when the DS9 theme was played in the closing titles, I literally had tears.
Like Galaxy says above - I would have liked the quiet and secret return concept.
Which is funny cause Jadzia almost had a heart attack when Kira suggested going to warp inside of a solar system. I can only imagine her response going to warp inside of a planet's atmosphere. :P
Yeah - I kept hoping Jake would tell SAM that Benjamin did eventually return to his family.
The proper Trek response is to find a solution to any issues you've found.
Clearly the first sign of true progress in the 32nd century!
What kind of species thinks it's a good idea to put holes in their spoons when eating food?
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