Spoilers The Controversial Star Wars Opinion Thread

[Lobo]

Inspired by recent posts in the Simon Pegg thread, I felt it was time for one these style threads in the Star Wars subforum. Largely because I often times have many controversial fan opinions about one of the franchises I have been interacting with the longest, surpassed only by Legos and Star Trek.

So, to kick it off here's one inspired by another poster:


I too like the Disney output a lot more than other Star Wars products, especially the PT and Clone Wars. The flip side on that is I like the PT era books more than most, especially TPM and ROTS novels.

As for Disney, I will add that I like Book of Boba Fett a bit more than the Mandalorian at present, largely because I feel that Din doesn't have a clear character arc. He might in Season 3, and he might not. But, right now, Fett has a clear arc, has a deeper emotional story and one that I still found largely enjoyable. Din, less so, save for his reactions to the needs of the story, i.e. vulnerable when needed, clumsy when needed, a cold hearted killer a lot of the time.

I don't altogether care for Rogue One, but it has some excellent additions to the Galactic Civil War in terms of tech and troopers.


Alright, that's mine, at least for today.

Well there is a lot to say about Star Wars.
First of all. It's not SciFi. It's Fantasy. In the sense that if u'd take the stories and put them in a different setting. Like muddle ages and dragons etc. It still works the same. It's just ''set in space''. But it's not SciFi like Star Trek. Like actually humans evolving and goin to space. Having said that. Star Wars is also a grear collection of creativity. Ship Designs and Aliens. And so on. So it's awesome for what it is. And enjoyable.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Nothing about Rogue One in any way, shape, or form matches the definition of the term "fan service".

Digging up once minor OT references or characters that served no purpose in the film (e.g., Dr.Evazan and Ponda Baba) - fan service.

The pointless Vader corridor attack scene...oh yay, lightsaber - fan service.

and nevermind that in the original film, Vader explicitly stated, "Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by Rebel spies...", which Vader would not say, since he witnessed the Death Star plans physically handed over from one Rebel to the other aboard the blockade runner. So, for the sake of pointless fan service of Vader's attack, his original dialogue to Leia makes no sense at all, unless "handing over a physical object" translates as "beaming" in some unofficial Star Wars-y language.

Finally, the most important point of the film (R1) was addressed in the opening crawl of Star Wars--it was all anyone needed to know about the plans and its then-current whereabouts. In 1977 (or during any of the numerous re-releases of the film), I doubt anyone can recall asking for an entire film based on the theft of the Death Star plans.

You add all the legacy cameos and references and Rogue One becomes overwhelmed with fan service. Then there’s the hallway scene.

Exactly.

 

[suarezguy]

Did you miss the part in that definition about "fan service" often being sexual in nature?

"Pandering" originally had, still occasionally/slightly has, sexual implication, now and for a long time it's a lot more general than that.

the most important point of the film (R1) was addressed in the opening crawl of Star Wars--it was all anyone needed to know about the plans and its then-current whereabouts. In 1977 (or during any of the numerous re-releases of the film), I doubt anyone can recall asking for an entire film based on the theft of the Death Star plans.

Sure it wasn't widely demanded but the film did set up the immediate previous events as being big deal, like they even could have been the prior Episode-film, that it was the first (major) victory for the Rebels and that Vader was out for revenge/totally demolishing them, "There will be no one to stop us this time."

 

[Set Harth]

and nevermind that in the original film, Vader explicitly stated, "Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by Rebel spies...", which Vader would not say, since he witnessed the Death Star plans physically handed over from one Rebel to the other aboard the blockade runner.

He might not have actually witnessed that part, as he was seemingly occupied with killing other rebels at that point. It would at least not be completely unreasonable for him to assume that the Tantive IV received the plans the same way the Profundity did.

 

[cooleddie74]

But the transmission WAS beamed to the Rebel fleet over Scarif and then a copy of the data burned onto the disc, so Vader wasn't wrong.

 

[Set Harth]

The supposed sticking point, such as it is, is that he said "beamed to this ship".

 

[cooleddie74]

Oh, I understand, but the glory of that sequence in Rogue One is that the plans were indeed beamed from the transmitter dish on Scarif as well as being a hardcopy version that Leia could place inside R2-D2. The creators of the film managed to cover their bases and almost certainly knew Vader's dialogue from the original movie when they wrote theirs.

 

[fireproof78]

It fits, if poorly.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I maintain that fan service doesn't matter one way or the other as long as one enjoys the film.

But I guess I'm silly that way.

 

[suarezguy]

When fan service works it's usually just considered coolness and good, satisfying writing/visuals, pretty much only when it doesn't work, when it's badly done, is it identified and complained about as fan service.

 

[fireproof78]

It comes down to use within the story. I think Mandalorian Season 2 is a lot of fan service but it works within the terms of the story. I feel along for the ride.

Rogue One has moments that feel more like an *applause* sign bring played. Like Panaka saying "AR-TOO-DEE-TOO" in Phantom Menace.

 

[Mage]

I just got caught up with this topic.....

Rogue One AND the corridor scene are #1 Star Wars.

Haters gonna hate.

I'm Dutch and it's bed time here. Capital F the haters.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Rogue One has moments that feel more like an *applause* sign bring played. Like Panaka saying "AR-TOO-DEE-TOO" in Phantom Menace.

Which moments (aside from the corridor fight)?

The hoodlums from Mos Eisley? I still don't know their names (yes, they're mentioned upthread and I had to look them up to confirm who they were) and that's a blink-and-you-miss-it moment that all casual fans wouldn't notice. Even some fans would miss it (such as myself the first time I saw the film).

Tarkin? The CGI, yes, but not the role. Fans would've complained if he didn't appear.

Leia? Yes, definitely (again, would've been better if it was a recast).

As far as I'm concerned, everything else felt perfectly natural unless I missed something. Which...kind of proves my point.

 

[The Wormhole]

Mon Mothma and Bail Organa discussing getting in contact with Obi-Wan is one scene I felt really served no purpose at all in Rogue One.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Mon Mothma and Bail Organa discussing getting in contact with Obi-Wan is one scene I felt really served no purpose at all in Rogue One.

Okay, that one is fair. I always forget about Bail being in the film but that's more due to my lack of interest in Jimmy Smits.

 

[Set Harth]

You could throw in R2 & 3PO and the Rebels stuff ( the Ghost, Chopper, Hera namedropped over the base intercom ). And a reference to the Whills.

 

[JD]

*Okay, Tarkin hasn't aged well. At the time, I defended the CGI mask over how it was different from Leia. But now I wish they had recast both roles.

I'll never understand why they didn't just bring Wayne Pygram back, they'd already cast him in Revenge of the Sith, and I'm sure he could have pulled off the role just as well as Guy Henry with the digital Peter Cushing mask. But I might be a little biased since I'm a huge of his from Farscape.

I maintain that fan service doesn't matter one way or the other as long as one enjoys the film.

But I guess I'm silly that way.

I'll admit, I'm the kind of fan who tends to enjoy the fan service stuff, but I'm a lot more willing to just have fun with that that kind thing than a lot of other fans seem to..

 

[fireproof78]

never understand why they didn't just bring Wayne Pygram back, they'd already cast him in Revenge of the Sith, and I'm sure he could have pulled off the role just as well as Guy Henry with the digital Peter Cushing mask. But I might be a little biased since I'm a huge of his from Farscape.

Same.

 

[fireproof78]

Which moments (aside from the corridor fight)?

The hoodlums from Mos Eisley? I still don't know their names (yes, they're mentioned upthread and I had to look them up to confirm who they were) and that's a blink-and-you-miss-it moment that all casual fans wouldn't notice. Even some fans would miss it (such as myself the first time I saw the film).

Tarkin? The CGI, yes, but not the role. Fans would've complained if he didn't appear.

Leia? Yes, definitely (again, would've been better if it was a recast).

As far as I'm concerned, everything else felt perfectly natural unless I missed something. Which...kind of proves my point.

Anything with Vader is probably my biggest one.

Red Leader and Gold Leader are borderline but I can accept them. Similar with 3PO and R2.

But, again, as others note, if you're invested in the story then those things feel much better. I was not all in on the story or the main characters.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

He might not have actually witnessed that part, as he was seemingly occupied with killing other rebels at that point.

Vader was trying to obtain the plans in that hallway scene. Didn't he kill the last Rebel who handed the plans to the blockade runner crew member before the hatch closed? If Vader was that close, he was trying to get the physical plans, which R1 established were not "beamed" to the blockade runner--a specific detail that was part of Vader's line from Star Wars.

Rogue One has moments that feel more like an *applause* sign bring played. Like Panaka saying "AR-TOO-DEE-TOO" in Phantom Menace.

Agreed. All shameless fanservice which was not necessary to tell the story, and both were out of place because it was obvious it was your "applause" sign and "Remember this character moment from that classic Star Wars film?? Its here! Isn't great!!" flashing on screen.