Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 3x07 - "What Is Starfleet?"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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I do, too. I wish we'd seen more of Dr Boyce. All this shoehorning Chapel, Uhura, Scotty & Kirk into SNW is depriving us of the opportunity to learn more about the rest of the crew.
As others have said, putting TOS crew in danger in SNW is a cop-out and poor writing because we know they're gonna be fine.
I guess so. I don't see it as poor writing but I also don't have a desire to watch characters die either.
How is it poor writing? I have never once while watching an episode of Star Trek wondered, "Gee are any of our opening credits regulars going to die?" If one were going to die, we would know about it well in advance as we did with Tasha Yar and Jadzia Dax. And, no, Bruce Horak was recurring, not a regular. It's a completely false standard. Once again, the label of "poor writing" has been applied when one is actually saying, "they didn't do what I wanted them to do."
As for me, I don't care in the slightest about Dr Philip Boyce. Or Mark Piper. Give me Kirk, Scotty and Uhura.
Actually, Bruce Horak was a regular lead character in season 1. His name was in the theme sequence.
Maybe 'poor writing' is not the best term, but I think I understand what this is supposed to mean. Those characters are not in any actual danger because we already know they are fine by TOS, so there's no real sense of jeopardy.
Maybe 'poor writing' is not the best term, but I think I understand what this is supposed to mean. Those characters are not in any actual danger because we already know they are fine by TOS, so there's no real sense of jeopardy.
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Would it be easier to suspend disbelief in the days of TOS, where, although you know they wouldn't generally kill regulars off, there's no future written in stone for the characters? Once the movies were made, you know they didn't die in between TOS and the TOS films (without being brought back to life or having the death undone by time travel, etc.)
I don't watch shows to see characters die, either, but give us some regulars plus Ensign Waterford, Lieutenant Oslo, and Yeoman Snelling (made up names to make a point). With these new characters in peril, some may die, some may not; you don't know.
I don't watch shows to see characters die, either, but give us some regulars plus Ensign Waterford, Lieutenant Oslo, and Yeoman Snelling (made up names to make a point). With these new characters in peril, some may die, some may not; you don't know.
Exactly. You know the shuttlecraft will return with The Usual Suspects and any of their injuries will heal fully. Subspace anomalies, unhibernated Gorn and technobabble incidents hold no danger for our TOS crew people.
I'm not sure where this "I don't watch TV to see characters die" rhetoric is coming from, I'm not sure anyone has suggested that it's what the show should be about.
My point was around the lack of jeopardy around characters who we know don't suffer any life altering injuries (other than Pike). Uhura, for example, and the danger of her receiving "permanent brain damage" was a bit pointless because we know she doesn't get that. But pop La'an or Pelia in there and it gives it a real sense of jeopardy.
In any other Trek before the streaming era, main cast characters were bulletproof, but main characters get killed off in shows all the time now. I don't think it's unreasonable to think it would be better if more characters we don't know the end of be involved in these scenarios instead of Spock, Scotty or Kirk.
My point was around the lack of jeopardy around characters who we know don't suffer any life altering injuries (other than Pike). Uhura, for example, and the danger of her receiving "permanent brain damage" was a bit pointless because we know she doesn't get that. But pop La'an or Pelia in there and it gives it a real sense of jeopardy.
In any other Trek before the streaming era, main cast characters were bulletproof, but main characters get killed off in shows all the time now. I don't think it's unreasonable to think it would be better if more characters we don't know the end of be involved in these scenarios instead of Spock, Scotty or Kirk.
Mileage will vary. I don't watch a show expecting characters to die. It's not interesting or enjoyable and it's the thing I detest most in shows like the Clone Wars.
I do agree we could benefit from more characters we don't know. But, I don't want to have a sense of jeopardy towards the characters. That's poor writing to me.
Again, mileage will vary.
Nothing has danger for our TOS people in TOS. Uhura s brain was wiped and she still served!
Having more characters we don't know also helps expand the universe, instead of shrinking it using more and more legacy characters. (And characters related to them.)
In an organization made up of billions of people, a hundred or more planets, and hundreds (if not thousands) of ships, the Federation/Starfleet sure has a small amount of people we get to know. Considering we are not going to get a show for every starship, at least have the shows we do get be manned by people who have no connection to previous shows.
In an organization made up of billions of people, a hundred or more planets, and hundreds (if not thousands) of ships, the Federation/Starfleet sure has a small amount of people we get to know. Considering we are not going to get a show for every starship, at least have the shows we do get be manned by people who have no connection to previous shows.
I see both sides. Yes, I would love more random characters that we don't know. I would love no legacy characters, including Pike's previous crew, or TOS crew.
On the other hand, we know from TOS that the Starship/Constitution class is considered a "special type of vessel" and "there are only twelve like her" in the fleet then those selected to serve might be a smaller pool. Closer to the modern day submarine service, to just rank and file naval service members.
My larger push back is the desire for more jeopardy and expecting characters to die. It's not something I find desirable.
The problem isn't the need to have more jeopardy or expecting character deaths. It's to make it seem believeable and authentic that they are in danger.
If you already know the outcome, the stakes don't feel real or authentic. Spock, Pike, Uhura, Scotty, M'Benga... they fall into that category. La'an, Pelia, Ortegas, Una... we have no idea their fates. So if any dangerous situation occurs, it will seem that much more real that they are in danger.
Put it this way: if you know the ending to a book or movie, doesn't that diminish the stakes when you see certain characters made it to the end?
Sure, you'll get some character stuff (which I love), but the sense of danger is snuffed out because we already know they'll be fine.
I strongly disagree. This is probably the disconnect. I do not feel this way at all about media.
It does not.
I can almost guarantee most of the couples in the novels I read are going to wind up together, yet I still like to see how it happens.
The journey is always what I want, not whether or not I already know the outcome.
Again, no-one is saying we should "expect" the characters to die. A sense of jeopardy doesn't mean they're going to, just that there is an outside chance. Which makes better TV than making every character immortal imo.
Yes, I see your point.
It simply isn't what I look for in media. So, I'll chalk it to a milage varies situation.
Yeah, no. A main character's departure is almost always known in advance these days simply because the news of the actor's departure is always reported on entertainment news sites. Even on shows which have a reputation for high morality rates amongst the main characters like The Walking Dead or Game of Thrones, you'll note those deaths are almost always relegated to certain key episodes of the season, usually premieres, finales or midseason episodes. Indeed, the one time Walking Dead deviated from this pattern, it was advertised for two months in advance which episode the character would be departing in. There actually is a practical reason for this, as these episodes tend to be the ones that get higher viewership and therefore you want to make sure significant events like the death/departure of a main character happens in an episode everybody is watching. If for whatever reason that's not possible, get the information out there which episode a character is leaving to make sure everyone tunes in.
Bottom line, main characters getting killed is not something that happens by surprise in modern television. 99% of the time, you know damn well the main cast will survive the episode and that other one percent is when the character's death/departure has to happen due to publicly known information. The whole "there are no stakes in prequels because I know this character has to survive" is nonsense. We always know in every show the main characters survive because of how the entertainment news industry works.
In that case, the audience immediately intuits who isn't coming back.
Hell, people were calling out Gamble as a Dead Ensign Walking from his first appearance on the show.
No.
You either choose to buy in, or you don't. It's episodic television with a continuing cast.
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