I could see her smacking down Colin Baker.
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 3x10 - "New Life and New Civilizations"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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The emotional beats and the character moments were terrific and I enjoyed them. I'm glad they didn't just kill Batel off. But somehow, the ending just felt anticlimatic. I'm not sure why yet.
Probably because it's the end of the (Batel × Pike) relationship, due to no fault of either individual.
She was just destined for something greater due to some sort of Cosmic Pre-Destination Paradox, where she can't have a normal life / relationship.
Her destiny is fated as the Warden to keep the Evil Vezda and whatever other Evil Beings locked up for the rest of Eternity in that Extra Dimensional Prison.
It's a sad fate, but somebody has to do it, but she just happened to be that "Chosen One".
On top of that we, know what happens to Pike potentially, so neither individuals gets that sweet "Happy Ending" we want them to have in that "Inner Light"-esque moment they shared.
YES! This is what I kept thinking the entire time I was watching! I couldn't shake the feeling that they were trying to cram too much into this episode.
Setting up what happened to Batel as a "predestination paradox" of sorts was an interesting twist, but I also thought that it was convenient how she =just came to the conclusion organically that all the crap she'd gone through and put into her body suddenly elevated her to something higher on the evolutionary food chain. Would've like to have seen more of a scientific approach to figuring that out... or hell, even another mind meld with Spock that gives him something to substantiate that hypothesis. Prime example of where I feel like this needed more space to breathe. I know that folks don't always like 2-part finales... but I think spending more time unraveling the plot twists in the first part would've helped. I honestly thought that Batel had become an Esper when her eyes started glowing!
Also felt like the Vesda weren't ever really explored in great detail. Yes, we know they were baddies. But at least in TNG's "Power Play" we got a little backstory on the entities that possessed Troi, Data, and O'Brien. Who were the Vesda? How/why did they finally get trapped in the prison? Was the entity that trapped them some sort of extra-dimensional Fenris Ranger/Batman who just came in and and was like, "You're bad... I'm going to build a prison and put you there?" The Vesda were fascinating to me, and I would've liked to have seen them as more of an ORIGINAL villain in the series instead of the Gorn.
The endgame played out too quickly for me in the final fight sequence, too. IMHO, it would've been cool to see Batel turn to Pike and live out the "Inner Light" life to draw power from him that helped her defeat Gamble. And M'Benga's presence seemed almost arbitrary. Yes, he was needed to open to portal from Skygowan to the prison, but could HE have played a role in the final battle since he had a paternal relationship with Gamble?
I guess the "moral" of the episode was, "Life's short, so enjoy what you can while you can because you never know what'll happen tomorrow." I gave it a "7" even though it felt haphazard and rushed. It certainly wasn't "Shades of Gray" bad!!!
No it isn't? It's literally explained in episode that his ship was stuck in the general area because it was still getting the damage from loosing it's nacelles repaired.
General reminder that pre-destination paradox's in Star Trek can be broken if the people involved actually try to do so.
It has been a major plot point in multiple episodes.
Also, she's probably not going to be there for Eternity, Starfleet knows what happened to her after all, and their scientists are going to be working on solving the Vezda problem for however long it takes to actually do so. At which point they'll probably free her too.
My guess is Jon Pertwee as he was pretty much stuck on Earth during his run.
Jörg Hillebrand (@gaghyogi49.bsky.social)
Ensign/Nurse Dana Gamble's medical file in #StarTrekSNW's "New Life and New Civilizations" reveals that he's Welsh, the name of his parents and his siblings, among other details.
bsky.app
Okay? It's still a point that it's a terrible personal lowering of mental barriers. Reminding the audience who missed it don't negate it, it reinforces it.
As You Know - TV Tropes
As you know, we are Describing the trope As You Know here. This is a form of exposition where one character explains to another something that they both know, but which the audience doesn't or may have forgotten. In discussions of science fiction …tvtropes.org
Yup. After Dagger of the Mind, after which Kirk was filled in.
Spock performing it on Kirk in the bar years before the episode goes against its introduction there. If it was something Spock routinely performed, the dialog and delivery would have reflected that. In fact, any usage on a human by Spock prior to the events in Dagger of the Mind will do that. This is why canon is pointless, as is saying it's got anything to do with TOS in a real way. This is all at the whims of the respective showrunners and can change at any time by any current or future showrunners. Considering the strides they made with Chapel, I'm happy to let them flout continuity. But in no way do I consider Jess Bush to be playing the Christine Chapel of TOS. I like Jess's version much, much better.
This episode was a very disjointed mess. It seems like 3 or 4 episodes were trying to be done in one. (Which was also the problem of the previous Vezda episode this season, except that was two episodes being done as one. Still didn't fully work, but at least it wasn't nearly as messy as this one.)
Pelia's clear DOCTOR WHO reference... what was that about? (And on that subject, Batel looked very much like The Doctor in the process of regenerating at the end.) That just... felt odd. The DOCTOR WHO reference in ENT's "FUTURE TENSE" with the pod being bigger on the inside was more subtle, which is why it worked well.
So, only TWO 23rd century Starfleet ships firing phasers on a single spot is the equivalent of a sun's power, however briefly. Really? That is just complete nonsense. As well as not being able to sync up two ships for a specific task... just stupid.
And Kirk is here, YET AGAIN.
Speaking of which: Spock melding with Kirk. If I remember correctly, in "DAGGER OF THE MIND", Spock said he had never done that with a human before. Last I checked, Kirk is human... unless SNW is going to somehow retcon THAT. And Spock had not melded with Kirk until TOS. (I believe the first time was in season 3.)
So much of this was more fantasy than scifi, and while STAR TREK has done that in the past, at least in those episodes there was some internal logic or cohesion in the story within it that can explain it. Here, it was almost entirely handwaved. Like in Sickbay: Chapel saying 'it's impossible' multiple times before giving Pike the report of just saying, "She is the statue." The writers couldn't even be bothered to come up with technobabble to TRY to make this make sense.
And Batel suddenly having the ability to stop that evil from across all the species around just because she has human, Gorn, and Illyrian dna in her now? How about Vulcans? Andorians? Tellarites? Klingons? Coridanites? Rigellians? She suddenly has ALL of their 'evil killer' superpowers? Just nonsense.
I also don't feel the menace of the Vezda like I should be feeling. For such a vile and evil race, they were pretty tame compared to other evils in the past. So the stakes didn't really feel anywhere near as big as the episode was trying to portray.
The illusion home life of Pike and Batel: it just didn't do anything for me. There have been far better examples of living compressed time in an episode: "The Inner Light", "THE VISITOR", "HARD TIME". But the emotions of those were earned because it took up most or all of those episodes. Here, it was less than an Act. It was a cheap gimmick to try to get us to feel an emotional loss that she is gone. Even "ROADS TAKEN", an episode in season 4 of SLIDERS where Quinn and Maggie live out an entire lifetime in a bubble universe, was done far better at evoking an emotional response. Plus, I never felt there was any chemistry between Pike and Batel. They seemed more like actors PORTRAYING characters in love rather than any really connected characters.
Oh, and can SNW club us on the head any harder that some of these people will be serving together later? Spock saying 'perhaps they will serve on the same ship'. La'an saying 'enough for a five year mission'. And Kirk's 'we make a good team' in another episode. We get it! We KNOW they will serve together a few years later. TOS and the 6 movies was our proof.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned another TOS connection with this episode: "THE ALTERNATIVE FACTOR". Lazarus' fate is very much the same as Batel's: keeping an evil/madman at bay to save the universe.
Positives:
Una FINALLY gets to lead a landing party on a planet.
La'an doing the Vulcan neck pinch.
Gazda (my word for the Vezda impersonating Gamble) making those people stab their own eyes. I like how it still keeps to that saying how the eyes are the window to the soul.
While I get that the writers were trying to make this a potential series finale due to them not knowing if they got the 4th season renewal at the time, I can't help but feel like the writers just phoned it in when writing this episode. Seasons being only 10 episodes should not have a single one that feels that way, let alone the season finale. This episode is a 2.5, so rounding up in here it is, reluctantly, a 3.
Overall, this season has been a step down from season 2. (And a major step down from season 1.) I hope season 4 will be more like season 1. Please be like every other series where their 4th season (in my view) was their best. (Except DISCO... their season 4 was just a meandering, aimless slog... definitely NOT their best season. It did at least stick the landing.)
Pelia's clear DOCTOR WHO reference... what was that about? (And on that subject, Batel looked very much like The Doctor in the process of regenerating at the end.) That just... felt odd. The DOCTOR WHO reference in ENT's "FUTURE TENSE" with the pod being bigger on the inside was more subtle, which is why it worked well.
So, only TWO 23rd century Starfleet ships firing phasers on a single spot is the equivalent of a sun's power, however briefly. Really? That is just complete nonsense. As well as not being able to sync up two ships for a specific task... just stupid.
And Kirk is here, YET AGAIN.
Speaking of which: Spock melding with Kirk. If I remember correctly, in "DAGGER OF THE MIND", Spock said he had never done that with a human before. Last I checked, Kirk is human... unless SNW is going to somehow retcon THAT. And Spock had not melded with Kirk until TOS. (I believe the first time was in season 3.)
So much of this was more fantasy than scifi, and while STAR TREK has done that in the past, at least in those episodes there was some internal logic or cohesion in the story within it that can explain it. Here, it was almost entirely handwaved. Like in Sickbay: Chapel saying 'it's impossible' multiple times before giving Pike the report of just saying, "She is the statue." The writers couldn't even be bothered to come up with technobabble to TRY to make this make sense.
And Batel suddenly having the ability to stop that evil from across all the species around just because she has human, Gorn, and Illyrian dna in her now? How about Vulcans? Andorians? Tellarites? Klingons? Coridanites? Rigellians? She suddenly has ALL of their 'evil killer' superpowers? Just nonsense.
I also don't feel the menace of the Vezda like I should be feeling. For such a vile and evil race, they were pretty tame compared to other evils in the past. So the stakes didn't really feel anywhere near as big as the episode was trying to portray.
The illusion home life of Pike and Batel: it just didn't do anything for me. There have been far better examples of living compressed time in an episode: "The Inner Light", "THE VISITOR", "HARD TIME". But the emotions of those were earned because it took up most or all of those episodes. Here, it was less than an Act. It was a cheap gimmick to try to get us to feel an emotional loss that she is gone. Even "ROADS TAKEN", an episode in season 4 of SLIDERS where Quinn and Maggie live out an entire lifetime in a bubble universe, was done far better at evoking an emotional response. Plus, I never felt there was any chemistry between Pike and Batel. They seemed more like actors PORTRAYING characters in love rather than any really connected characters.
Oh, and can SNW club us on the head any harder that some of these people will be serving together later? Spock saying 'perhaps they will serve on the same ship'. La'an saying 'enough for a five year mission'. And Kirk's 'we make a good team' in another episode. We get it! We KNOW they will serve together a few years later. TOS and the 6 movies was our proof.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned another TOS connection with this episode: "THE ALTERNATIVE FACTOR". Lazarus' fate is very much the same as Batel's: keeping an evil/madman at bay to save the universe.
Positives:
Una FINALLY gets to lead a landing party on a planet.
La'an doing the Vulcan neck pinch.
Gazda (my word for the Vezda impersonating Gamble) making those people stab their own eyes. I like how it still keeps to that saying how the eyes are the window to the soul.
While I get that the writers were trying to make this a potential series finale due to them not knowing if they got the 4th season renewal at the time, I can't help but feel like the writers just phoned it in when writing this episode. Seasons being only 10 episodes should not have a single one that feels that way, let alone the season finale. This episode is a 2.5, so rounding up in here it is, reluctantly, a 3.
Overall, this season has been a step down from season 2. (And a major step down from season 1.) I hope season 4 will be more like season 1. Please be like every other series where their 4th season (in my view) was their best. (Except DISCO... their season 4 was just a meandering, aimless slog... definitely NOT their best season. It did at least stick the landing.)
But Marie didn't fight it, she chose to accept it.
True, but not in this case.
But who knows how long into the future it will take before StarFleet figures out a solution.
Will it take Decades, Centuries, Millenium, Eons?
Who knows, until that's solved, she's stuck as a statue willingly.
Your claim included the words "due to no fault of either individual".
Her making the choice to just accept it instead of fight means some fault does in fact rest on her.
If we take into account shown Starfleet capabilities?
They would have been able to deal with the Vezda by the Lower Decks/Prodigy era.
Because he's a reoccurring guest star. I'd think someone with the user name "TV's Frank" would get that.
It's her doing her Pre-Destined Duties to keep the Vezda locked up in the "Here & Now".
Or potentially risk them getting out of the Multi-Dimensional Prison and spreading amongst the stars causing unknown amounts of Havoc.
1x Vezda trapped inside the Transporter Buffer was able to escape on it's own.
Imagine what hundreds to thousands or millions could do if they spread around on their own, unchecked.
Maybe, assuming they had enough time to study how to deal with a Vezda and stop them.
StarFleet isn't great at dealing with Energy Beings, many Officers still get possessed all the time.
About referencing another TV show that fans of both shows will get.
Why couldn't Starfleet deal with the Pah Wraiths?
I get that. It just felt forced. You can do references/homages and not feel forced.
Seemed like a typical off the cuff Pelia reference.
They can, technically. Chroniton beams will kill them. But also will kill the Prophets.
(It's why in "THE RECKONING", the chronitons were raised slowly so the Prophet and Pah-wraith can leave Kira and Jake safely without getting killed.)
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