What is the best relationship Seven of Nine had (platonic or romantic) on Voyager?

[Artoo Atari]

I always found the relationships she had with Naomi and Icheb to be the best written because they flowed very naturally and organically.

On the other end, the poorly conceived romantic Chakotay relationship came out of left field. A romantic match between Riker and Data's pet cat Spot would make more sense.

 

[Oddish]

DATA: "Commander, what are your intentions toward my cat?"

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

I do wonder how her relationship with Kes would go, had Kes stayed aboard Voyager.

 

[Akiraprise]

Kes was kind of falling into the empathetic Counselor Troi role towards the end of her tenure. Mental abilities, similar hair, and even a similar outfit. She'd have probably turned into a sounding board for Seven and helped guide her along as she rediscovered her humanity.

 

[Oddish]

Kes was kind of falling into the empathetic Counselor Troi role towards the end of her tenure. Mental abilities, similar hair, and even a similar outfit. She'd have probably turned into a sounding board for Seven and helped guide her along as she rediscovered her humanity.

One of several reasons why it would have been better for the show to keep Kes and dump either Chakotay or Harry. Or better yet, run with ten characters.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Seven and her nanoprobes

 

[Lynx]

No book author can ruin Trek canon, any more than they can fix it. Despite him ranking up in multiple post-VOY novelizations, Harry is still locked in limbo, with a canonical rank of ensign.

The problem is that without a TV series to decide what "canon" is, author of Star Trek books look at other Star Trek books for some sort of "canon".

For example, Christie Golden created a chharacter called Lyssa Campbell in the excellent Voyager book Marooned. She was based on a transporter chief who was briefly seen in the episode
Phage.

(That transporter chief showed up as Jarvis in the episode Projections, I think that Golden missed that!)

When Golden became in charge of the "Voyager Relaunch" books, Campbell remained as character.

Then the author who took over the "Voyager Relaunch" after Golden killed off Campbell.
In a very disgusting way, I must add.

Has anyoned bothered to bring back Campbell? No!

OK, that example may have been a bit far-fetched and off-topic since it was a minor character. But the question still remains.

And because the books were intended to not be canon. Except for licensed novelizations of specific TV episodes or movies.

Yes, but will we see Garak back in future Star Trek books? And if, will there only be "flashback" stories from before he was exiled or will we have him back as he was before a certain author ruined the character?

I hope I didn’t do you a disservice.

No, on the contrary, you did me a great favor. I owe you one!

If it helps, my "Roads Not Taken" timeline deletes several events. Including "Threshold" and That Episode, because I consider both to be mistakes.

Where can I find it?

As for those episodes, I have come up with solutions too.
I consider the events in Threshold as a nightmare Tom Paris had after eating too much of neelix's food. If the episode had ended with Tom Paris waking up in his bed with a comment like "Oh what a nightmare!", then the episode had been great!

As for "that episode", I've simply dismissed the disgusting creature in it as Suspiria out for revenge or as a being from another universe.

You don't like them being killed off, but you don't like them living happily ever after. Do you have a preferred fate for them?

No, I don't have a preferred fate for them. I'm just totally uninterested in what they do when they no longer are the characters they were in the series. I want to remember them as they were at their prime.

I don't want to see episodes or read stories in which they are old, boring has-beens or are killed off by some whim of some producer and author. I want to see episodes and read stories when they are what they were at their best.

Oedipus is that on steroids. If he hadn't tried to stop the prophecy that he would kill his father and marry his mother () from coming to pass, he would have lived quite happily with his adoptive parents, watching both die natural deaths. And, he would never have met his biological parents at all.

Therefore prophecies should be avoided at all costs. They are mostly very depressive and downright gloomy. Not to mention that they creates trouble too for those who believe in them or try to stop them.

Ditto with Gowron. If he had just not worried about Martok and led the Empire's war effort competently, he would have had nothing to worry about. Martok had no desire and no intention to become Chancellor, and would have never challenged him. It was his efforts to stop Martok from taking his place that caused it.

Yes, but "Gowron's" actions in that episode were totally out of character which make me think that it wasn't the real Gowron but an impostor.

How far offtopic this thread went...

My fault! I'm a baaaaaad person!

I do wonder how her relationship with Kes would go, had Kes stayed aboard Voyager.

See my reply to Akiraprise below.

Kes was kind of falling into the empathetic Counselor Troi role towards the end of her tenure. Mental abilities, similar hair, and even a similar outfit. She'd have probably turned into a sounding board for Seven and helped guide her along as she rediscovered her humanity.

Exactly what I think too!

One of several reasons why it would have been better for the show to keep Kes and dump either Chakotay or Harry. Or better yet, run with ten characters.

In that case, I go for the "ten characters option".
Both Chakotay and Harry were too good as characters to be killed off.
There was too much destruction in Voyager as it was.

 

[Oddish]

My fault! I'm a baaaaaad person!

You had a partner in crime.

Where can I find it?

I'll PM you links to the stories.

In that case, I go for the "ten characters option".

Me as well. But realistically speaking, they probably weren't going to.

Both Chakotay and Harry were too good as characters to be killed off.

They were potentially good... but disastrously used.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

They should have done more with Seven - Harry relationship (whatever romantic or platonic). As for Chakotay... More interactions with characters like Kim, Tuvok, maybe even Neelix...

 

[Lynx]

You had a partner in crime.

I'll PM you links to the stories.


Me as well. But realistically speaking, they probably weren't going to.

They were potentially good... but disastrously used.

"They" should have been kicked out and replaced by people who could write.
I watched Emanations yesterday which must be one of the 5 worst episodes in the series. Almost as boring as the whole Stargate Universe.
A person who comes up with such a boring story should have a foot in the butt and goodbye.

As for your story, it's quite interesting.

 

[Oddish]

"They" should have been kicked out and replaced by people who could write.

This wasn't bad scripts (well, some, but all the series had their stinkers), it was inept showrunners. DS9 got the good ones.

 

[TedShatner10]

I now think Seven's more serious, relatively brief relationship with Commander Chakotay feeling "off" is now unintentional fridge brilliance when a more independent, human Seven in the intervening twenty years settled on more or less being a lesbian woman (after exploring her sexuality as a lonely drifter after her return to Earth).

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Are we sure she's lesbian? She can be bi, like Beckett Mariner.

 

[Artoo Atari]

Are we sure she's lesbian? She can be bi, like Beckett Mariner.

That's kinda how I have taken it.

 

[Lynx]

Are we sure she's lesbian? She can be bi, like Beckett Mariner.

And in that case why?There were no hints that Seven was lesbian in VOY so why have they turned her into that now?
Hadn't it been better to create a lesbian character if they want one in the series?

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

And in that case why?There were no hints that Seven was lesbian in VOY so why have they turned her into that now?
Hadn't it been better to create a lesbian character if they want one in the series?

They did in Picard. I don't like it either. Just trying to do damage control.

An d it might have set a precedent... Precendent I am afraid certain star Wars series may follow.

And yes, new characters would be better. At least they did so with Mariner in Lower Decks.

 

[Oddish]

Hadn't it been better to create a lesbian character if they want one in the series?

Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Getting any LGB character on Trek was far more problematic at the time: remember that homosexuality was still illegal in 13 states. Even the "Rejoined" kiss on DS9 was controversial. With modern Trek more amenable to same-sex relationships, they figured that they could retcon Seven's sexuality.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Making new charatcers is a better idea. This way, it won;t come with a baggage of exisiting ships and fans who dislikes it because it further attacks their ships. Espeically if retcon is into L/G, not B.

Retcons are always problematic, anyway. In opposition to things that were always intent. Like, in my current Gal Civ series, some charatcers turns out in Episode 4 to be Thalan (certain aliens) inflitrators, but it was the indea from the beginning and they were always written to be this. It was just hidden from the audience until Episode 4. Retcons don't have that benefit and thus can and will generate problems.

Well, what is done with Seven is done. So, if we want to ship her with men, we either have to ignore the new material, say she is bi or make an AU (as I did, althought this wasn't the only or main reason for making an AU, that was because of Kes). I honestly don't care about Picard and what it did to Seven. It is done.

I am only afraid certain Star Wars series will take it as an example and use it to destroy my main Star Wars ship further. As I know some people wants. And it would be far worse than anything Star trek ever did.

And if they absolutely had to make Seven lesbian, why they also sank the Janeway/Seven ship? Why didnl;t they even only make it one sided attraction from Seven to Janeway,if they need Janeway to other paiting, like (hopefully) hakotay/Janeway?

 

[Lynx]

Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Getting any LGB character on Trek was far more problematic at the time: remember that homosexuality was still illegal in 13 states. Even the "Rejoined" kiss on DS9 was controversial. With modern Trek more amenable to same-sex relationships, they figured that they could retcon Seven's sexuality.

I just find it stupid when they all of a sudden make some changes for some characters which were never supposed to be there from the start.

So typical for big-headed and megalomaniac producers, writers and athors who just have to make some dramatic change which they themselves might be remembered for but don't care about the outcome and the reaction among the fans.

If they absolutely want some effect, whatever it might be, then create a new character which they can make the way they wasnt. If they don't have the skill or imagination to do that, they can quit their jobs and start working at some hamburger bar instead.

You don't like them being killed off, but you don't like them living happily ever after. Do you have a preferred fate for them?

I just saw that I had missed to reply to this comment about characters in a previous post and since your question was very interesting and important , here is my reply which I have also added in the original post:

"I don't want to see episodes or read stories in which they are old, boring has-beens or are killed off by some whim of some producer and author. I want to see episodes and read stories when they are what they were at their best."

Making new charatcers is a better idea. This way, it won;t come with a baggage of exisiting ships and fans who dislikes it because it further attacks their ships. Espeically if retcon is into L/G, not B.

Retcons are always problematic, anyway. In opposition to things that were always intent. Like, in my current Gal Civ series, some charatcers turns out in Episode 4 to be Thalan (certain aliens) inflitrators, but it was the indea from the beginning and they were always written to be this. It was just hidden from the audience until Episode 4. Retcons don't have that benefit and thus can and will generate problems.

Well, what is done with Seven is done. So, if we want to ship her with men, we either have to ignore the new material, say she is bi or make an AU (as I did, althought this wasn't the only or main reason for making an AU, that was because of Kes). I honestly don't care about Picard and what it did to Seven. It is done.

I am only afraid certain Star Wars series will take it as an example and use it to destroy my main Star Wars ship further. As I know some people wants. And it would be far worse than anything Star trek ever did.

And if they absolutely had to make Seven lesbian, why they also sank the Janeway/Seven ship? Why didnl;t they even only make it one sided attraction from Seven to Janeway,if they need Janeway to other paiting, like (hopefully) hakotay/Janeway?

I agree!

 

[TedShatner10]

Wow, sorry I stepped on people's tails with my pet theory or assumption about Seven's "retcon" with her personal life, when in RL it's not so crazy when you have a existing pool of middle aged lesbian or bisexual women who were ostensibly hetrosexual when in their teens and twenties (with marriages that fell apart, etc).

Retcon means it's very abrupt and out of nowhere, when Seven essentially had her childhood destroyed, was a cybernetic slave soldier for the worst regime imagined, then a virtually confined passenger, then a drifter, and finally a mercenary - so little to no time to form normal social bonds and properly define her sexuality until her twenties starting with the Voyager crew (with crushing PTSD and anger/anxiety issues).

Then in her aimless wandering odd job and violent, but meaningful Fenris Ranger years (nearly a quarter of a century) she gradually found out she was really more sexually attracted to women and legitimately fell in love with another female (Ellory). That's my pet theory.