What is the best relationship Seven of Nine had (platonic or romantic) on Voyager?

[Lynx]

First,good to see you takingpart in this discussion, Lynx.

And for whatever everoyone has to be paired off, I don't think so. But I think that Seven should be paired off well, to prevent her from baing paired off badly.

One charatcer i don't think have to be paired (although I sometimes pair her up with Tom Paris, in some AU stories of mine) is Kes. Not only it is not nessesary, I like to make her a Jedi - like (or even directly a Jedi, if it is a Star Wars crossover) and so "romantic attachments" may be dangerous to her. Especially since she is at risk of falling to the Dark Side, unfortunately.

Antoher charatcer I dom;t like pairing up is Tuvok, since he's married. And Neelix... he may be paired, but it is not nessesary.

Thanks! It's always nice to be here!

I can agree on Seven, the question is only who she should be paired off with. Maybe someone outside the Voyager crew?

Kes kan be used in many ways. But I'm not so sure that she should be an action character, I see her more as a " problem solver" than someone waving swords and fighting. Some of her limited powers could be used in some situations.

As for Tuvok, I agree.

As for Neelix, for a while I really wanted to pair him off with Samantha Wildman. But recently when I was discussing that in a thread here on the Voyager forum, some people started to question that and comment about how unfair it would be to Greskrendtregk, her Ktarian husband.

So I started to feel sorry for Greskrendtregk and decided to skip that idea.

I think that Neelix should stick to his Talaxian family but leave this horrible asteroid on which he was stranded and take his family and settle somewhere near Federation psace where he can have contact with his friends from Voyager and do something useful at the same time.

In my opinion, a character with no viable avenue of development, it's better to give them a meaningful death than a meaningless life.

In a story I wrote a couple decades ago (the last half of which is now lost with the site it was on), I had a difficult love triangle: the female protagonist chose one guy over another, but the other was a genuinely good person whom I liked. Since I had not created a suitable alternative love interest for him, and didn't want him just hovering there through the years, pining for the girl he had lost... I killed him off. His death was a final, shattering message about the horrors of war. Instead of a life that was counterproductive to the narrative, he had a productive death.

Given that Harry and Chakotay had very limited value to the overarching Voyager narrative, giving either one a heroic and emotionally gut-wrenching death might have been a good thing.

Sorry, but I have to disagree here.

I just hate when favorite characters are killed off. There have been too much of that in Star Trek for me in recent years, I can't even read a Star trek book anymore without stumbling over the elimination of one of my favorites.

AsI just stated in a discussion with another person on another site, I'm very careful when it comes to kill off characters in stories I write.

I often think: "Can I use this character in a future story?"

In fact, one of the supporting characters in some of my stories are based on a person who died two years ago but I still haven't decide what to do with him. It's like I don't have the nerves or courage to kill off that character.

I guess that the current trend in Star Trek to kill of characters and destroy important planets and such has made me more careful when it comes to do the same things.

As it is, I'm actually trying to restore great characters which have been destroyed or killed off (Kes, Gowron, Garak and even Lt. Carey and Henry Starling) nowadays.

And I can't imagine a good Voyager story without Chakotay and Kim. They are good characters and deserves better than being killed off. Fortunately they weren't but other characters have been very ill-treated by thoughtless producers, writers and authors of books.

Depends on your perspective. I consider the whole "holograms are sentient" idea to be questionable at best anyway. But TNG walked with it (Moriarty), DS9 jogged (Vic), and VOY ran full tilt, far and fast.

I can agree here.Sometimes I find the whole concept a bit "over the top" because it's the risk that sentient holograms become something like Superman after The Doctor got the emitter in the otherwise great episode Future's End.

It only works if we actually see them reunited at the end.

Since Endgame was such a mess, we have to stick to the Voyager Relaunch books here in which they were.

I shipped those two ever since "Resolutions". Kind of like I shipped Caspian/Susan after seeing "Prince Caspian". Still do, in both cases.

The same here. I found Chakotay/Janeway one of the most logical pairings in Star Trek.
Not to mention that Chakotay/Seven annoyed me. It was just a way from those in charge to show the "finger" to the fans.

Tim Russ ended that early on. He told the showrunners "I don’t cheat on my wife, and neither does Tuvok."

He was right!

He was. He was the only VOY character who got a satisfying ending within the series. At least three other VOY characters never got one at all, 23 years after the series ended.

Here I have to disagree.

I never watched that horrible episode Homestead and i guess I never will. But I read about it and still think that it was horrible to dump Neelix three episodes from the end of the series and place him on some horrible asteroid in the middle of nowhere. He should have followed the rest of the Voyager crew to earth and done something meaningful there.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Kes kan be used in many ways. But I'm not so sure that she should be an action character, I see her more as a " problem solver" than someone waving swords and fighting. Some of her limited powers could be used in some situations.

Well, as for Kes being a Jedi... There are actually three paths of the Jedi, Guardians, Consulars and Sentiels. Only Guardians are really "action characters" (although these Jedi gets most screentime in the fims). Consulars prioritize diplomacy and mediation of conflict, which is where I see Kes fitting in. They really use skills Kes has, not nessesaruily Force skills but her ability to look at things from a diffrent perspective. This is something Jedi consulars can use very well. They are known for being able to end conflicts without drawing their lighsabers. Sentiels have a hybrid approach.

 

[Oddish]

Since Endgame was such a mess, we have to stick to the Voyager Relaunch books here in which they were.

The Autobiography of Kathryn Janeway also handles it perfectly.
- Janeway is sticking a lieutenant's pip on Harry's collar right after the series ends, a perfect FU to Berman and Braga.
- Harry's progress through the ranks is faster than average. By 2395, he has his own command.
- Harry does indeed get back together with Libby, marries her, and they have 4 kids together.

Not to mention that Chakotay/Seven annoyed me. It was just a way from those in charge to show the "finger" to the fans.

Yup. I know exactly what you mean.

never watched that horrible episode Homestead and i guess I never will. But I read about it and still think that it was horrible to dump Neelix three episodes from the end of the series and place him on some horrible asteroid in the middle of nowhere. He should have followed the rest of the Voyager crew to earth and done something meaningful there.

I'd give it a look. It's a good Neelix episode, and gives Ethan Phillips the opportunity go stretch a bit.

As it is, I'm actually trying to restore great characters which have been destroyed or killed off (Kes, Gowron, Garak and even Lt. Carey and Henry Starling) nowadays.

Agreed about a lot of those characters. I was Ok with Kes's departure, if they had let that be the end of it. But Gowron especially sticks in my craw.

And I can't imagine a good Voyager story without Chakotay and Kim. They are good characters and deserves better than being killed off.

A lot of the VOY episodes we saw would have been almost the same with life size cardboard cutouts of them. Not because they're bad characters, they're just rarely given the opportunity to be good ones.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

At least when they are alive, they can be written better later...

I myself have some bad experience with killing off charatcers and then wanting to use them again.

 

[Lynx]

The Autobiography of Kathryn Janeway also handles it perfectly.
- Janeway is sticking a lieutenant's pip on Harry's collar right after the series ends, a perfect FU to Berman and Braga.
- Harry's progress through the ranks is faster than average. By 2395, he has his own command.
- Harry does indeed get back together with Libby, marries her, and they have 4 kids together.

What I know, The Autobiography of Kathryn Janeway did just that for Harry which was good.
But what I also know is that the author ruined the rest of the Voyager characters in it, making janeway look like some lunatic hermit in some Irish castle and transforming Chakotay, Paris, Tuvok and Torres to uninteresting no-no's who were living boring and totally uninteresting lives.

I was about to buy that book but in the aftermath of the "Garak destruction" someone gave me the advice not to buy it just because of how certain characters were treated.

Was it you? I don't remember now, just that it showed up in some debate.

Since the author of that book is the same one who ruined Garak in a later book, my decision not to buy the Janeway biography wasn't that hard.

I'll stick to the Janeway biography in Mosaic by jeri Taylor. It has some flaws but it's a good read.

Yup. I know exactly what you mean.

Sometimes I get the impression that they did all they could to insult certain groups of Voyager fans before finishing the series.

I'd give it a look. It's a good Neelix episode, and gives Ethan Phillips the opportunity go stretch a bit.

I still, found it horrible to dump Neelix with only three episodes left of the series.

Agreed about a lot of those characters. I was Ok with Kes's departure, if they had let that be the end of it. But Gowron especially sticks in my craw.

I could have been OK with Kes's departure if they had let her leave with Zahir in Darkling with a possibilty for a return later on and if her "leaving" had been confirmed by the producers and Jennifer Lien herself, like it was when NCIS actress Sasha Alexander who played agent Kate Todd left because she wanted to spend more time with her family. All that was confirmed by the actress herself and those in charge of the show.

However, I didn't like that they killed off Kate.

As for Kes, I didn't like the "energy-being" mumbo-jumbo. The Gift was just a bad episode.

When it comes to Gowron, that really annoys me. One of the few things I really dislike with DS9.
To kill off the best Klingon they ever had in Star trek was downright stupid. Fortunately it isn't that hard to bring him back.

The same with Henry Starling.

A lot of the VOY episodes we saw would have been almost the same with life size cardboard cutouts of them. Not because they're bad characters, they're just rarely given the opportunity to be good ones.

That was the truth for seasons 4-7 when all the main characters except Seven, Janeway and The Doctor were turned into nothing more than moving iages in the background.

 

[Oddish]

like it was when NCIS actress Sasha Alexander who played agent Kate Todd left because she wanted to spend more time with her family. All that was confirmed by the actress herself and those in charge of the show.

However, I didn't like that they killed off Kate.

Kate was what I call a productive death, a little like the kid I killed off in that one story. It showed that life for the NCIS crew was uncertain, and allowed an element of tension when they were in danger.

As for Kes, I didn't like the "energy-being" mumbo-jumbo. The Gift was just a bad episode.

While your method was arguably better, I was more or less Ok with it.

When it comes to Gowron, that really annoys me. One of the few things I really dislike with DS9.

Yeah... DS9 was mostly great, but had some spectacular missteps. Killing Gowron and Jadzia, destroying the Ferengi as a culture, and having "Inquisition" and "In the Pale Moonlight" together and in that order... urghhh.

To kill off the best Klingon they ever had in Star trek was downright stupid. Fortunately it isn't that hard to bring him back.

That was the truth for seasons 4-7 when all the main characters except Seven, Janeway and The Doctor were turned into nothing more than moving iages in the background.

Really. Of course, Harry wasn't exactly transformed... he was never anything else.

Was it you? I don't remember now, just that it showed up in some debate.

Yeah, sounds like me.

What I know, The Autobiography of Kathryn Janeway did just that for Harry which was good.
But what I also know is that the author ruined the rest of the Voyager characters in it, making janeway look like some lunatic hermit in some Irish castle and transforming Chakotay, Paris, Tuvok and Torres to uninteresting no-no's who were living boring and totally uninteresting lives.

Nope. Janeway had a busy administrative post at Starfleet HQ, Torres was designing engines for Starfleet, and Tuvok was happily bakancing his intelligence duties and family, but considering retirement. And J/C was a definite possibility.

 

[Lynx]

Kate was what I call a productive death, a little like the kid I killed off in that one story. It showed that life for the NCIS crew was uncertain, and allowed an element of tension when they were in danger.

You may have a point there. But I still found it unnecessary.

While your method was arguably better, I was more or less Ok with it.

My method to restore Kes from the destruction in The Gift and that other episode were even better!

Yeah... DS9 was mostly great, but had some spectacular missteps. Killing Gowron and Jadzia, destroying the Ferengi as a culture, and having "Inquisition" and "In the Pale Moonlight" together and in that order... urghhh.

"Destroying the Ferengi as a culture?"
If you are referring to what Zek did in the last episode, then I'm with you.

And killing off Gowron was downright stupid.

I must also state that when I was mentioning the destruction of Kes, Garak, Gowron and maybe Henry Starling too as stupid and unnecessary, I did forget Lt. Carey, another character I like to restore but that is something I have to work on.

Really. Of course, Harry wasn't exactly transformed... he was never anything else.

Well, he was transformed from a moving image in the foreground to a moving image in the background.

Yeah, sounds like me.

Nope. Janeway had a busy administrative post at Starfleet HQ, Torres was designing engines for Starfleet, and Tuvok was happily bakancing his intelligence duties and family, but considering retirement. And J/C was a definite possibility.

I searched for the comment about the book and the advice I got for not buying it but couldn't find it. But I found this instead:

Spoiler: Janeway

Chakotay, Paris, Tuvok and The Doctor leaves Starfleet, Janeway moves to Ireland where she gets pregnant with herself!

Obviously I was wrong about Torres and Janeway was still an Admiral but otherwise my description of what was done to the characters were correct.

 

[AntonyF]

As time goes on I have more and more issues with the Doctor and Seven. They basically sat Seven down in front of a glorified iPad at a pivotal time of her learning to become human again. And stories like Retrospect show how damaging his influence could be, and that's before a computer starts thinking it's in love and all the issues surrounding that.

As much as I'm fond of Someone To Watch Over Me, I view the relationship worse as time goes on.

I think the best relationship is Janeway - it clearly felt a project for her. I liked how she could be kind but firm. And scenes like the end of The Voyager Conspiracy really cement that.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

My method to restore Kes from the destruction in The Gift and that other episode were even better!

I must say, it's even better than mine version, at least as far Kes is concerned. But you, Lynx, have a luxury of having your stories focused ob Kes. I do not, and the way I restored Kes better fits my wider universe.

 

[Michael]

As time goes on I have more and more issues with the Doctor and Seven. They basically sat Seven down in front of a glorified iPad at a pivotal time of her learning to become human again. And stories like Retrospect show how damaging his influence could be, and that's before a computer starts thinking it's in love and all the issues surrounding that.

As much as I'm fond of Someone To Watch Over Me, I view the relationship worse as time goes on.

I think the best relationship is Janeway - it clearly felt a project for her. I liked how she could be kind but firm. And scenes like the end of The Voyager Conspiracy really cement that.

Agreed. On my current rewatch I’m really struck by how weird and inappropriate some characters behave around Seven, particularly the Doctor. They really didn’t think this through when early on they dropped the info that it was the Doctor who put her in that ridiculous skintight bodysuit, complete with non-sensical high heels. You have someone who was abducted as a child, assaulted, abused and reprogrammed for twenty years by a bunch of psychotic murderers … and what do you do when you finally free her and make her an individual again? Why, sex her up of course!

That they had several storylines with characters getting the hots for her shows how little the writers understood about victims of child abuse, because that's basically the kind of character they had created with Seven. I think it would have been sensible to not pair her up romantically with anyone during the run of the show, unless it was her developing feelings for another character.

And don't get me started on “Retrospect”, which frankly is one of the most repulsive episodes they ever did on Voyager. Why did they think it was a good idea to basically make her a rape victim on top of everything she’s already been through? But not only that, but also make it a weird victim blaming and “Believe the men” take? I cringe even just thinking about it.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

I agree on the Doctor. The large part of me shipping Harry/Seven is his refusal of Seven's offer in Revulsion. I think he understood it would be taking advantage of her.

In a way, Seven is the opposite of Kes. Seven has years and body of an adult but mind of a child/teen, while Kes had years of a Child and mind of an adult (Season 3 Kes especially, I sometimes think she was the wisest person on Voyager then).

It only make me wish they kept Kes and have her, not Doctor, be Seven's tutor. And, if they absolutely have to give Seven a catsuit, make Kes give the idea, not for sex appeal but that Seven will have similar clothing style to herself (Kes).

 

[Oddish]

"Destroying the Ferengi as a culture?"
If you are referring to what Zek did in the last episode, then I'm with you.

I am. Female equality could have been managed (or at least set in motion) with some competent writing (and "Profit and Lace" was the opposite). But Zek's "Dogs of War" reforms included taxation, welfare, and democratic rule. In other words, making them like the Federation, only with money.

I must also state that when I was mentioning the destruction of Kes, Garak, Gowron and maybe Henry Starling too as stupid and unnecessary, I did forget Lt. Carey, another character I like to restore but that is something I have to work on.

Carey just plain got screwed... he was maybe the one person in Trek canon who could envy Harry Kim. Maybe that poor sap on "Lower Decks" could as well, the one whose promotion got snatched away at the last second and given to Rutherford.

Well, he was transformed from a moving image in the foreground to a moving image in the background.

Just to show that yes, the showrunners could crap on him even worse than they had.

Obviously I was wrong about Torres and Janeway was still an Admiral but otherwise my description of what was done to the characters were correct.

In that book, Adm. Janeway didn't get pregnant at all...

Spoiler

with herself or otherwise. Her sister, believing her dead, produced a child with one of Kathryn's ova, whom she carried to term and raised with her own kids. I find that kind of sweet, actually, giving your lost sibling a legacy. Sort of a high-tech variant of the Biblical tradition of levirate marriage.

 

[Lynx]

I am. Female equality could have been managed (or at least set in motion) with some competent writing (and "Profit and Lace" was the opposite). But Zek's "Dogs of War" reforms included taxation, welfare, and democratic rule. In other words, making them like the Federation, only with money.

I agree. I don't like when other worlds and species become Federation clones.

I do like the Federation! After all, it is us in some better future and many of those things which the Federation stands for are very good.

But making all other worlds and peoples become like the Federation is boring.

Which is one of the reasons why I disliked that they wasted Gowron.

I like Martok and Worf as characters. But they are too much Starfleet and Federation to be in charge of the Klingon Empire. The Klingon Empire need someone like Gowron who can be a good but somewhat unreliable ally to the Federation.

The same with Cardassia too. It was logic that the old military regime was overthrown. But i don't want it to be justa puppet state to the Federation.

Garak could have been used to prevent that, either as Castellan for Cardassia or as an Ambassador for Cardassia to the Federation instead of being turned ito an idiot by that author of that horrible book!

Carey just plain got screwed... he was maybe the one person in Trek canon who could envy Harry Kim. Maybe that poor sap on "Lower Decks" could as well, the one whose promotion got snatched away at the last second and given to Rutherford.

Sad but true.

Just to show that yes, the showrunners could crap on him even worse than they had.

Which is tragic.

In this case, I have to mention the early Voyager books where harry Kim is actually doing something. He's involved in a lot of action and also something of a whizz kid when it comes to computers and such.

Unfortunately, he's also the "whipping boy" in some books, the guy who gets injured and is close to death.

But still, he's better and get more meaningful action as such in the books than in the series.

In that book, Adm. Janeway didn't get pregnant at all...

Spoiler

with herself or otherwise. Her sister, believing her dead, produced a child with one of Kathryn's ova, whom she carried to term and raised with her own kids. I find that kind of sweet, actually, giving your lost sibling a legacy. Sort of a high-tech variant of the Biblical tradition of levirate marriage.

I guess that some of the infromation I got about the events in that book wasn't entirely correct or i simply misunderstood some of it.

But due to the information I have got, I still find a lot of the scenarios in that book boring and unacceptable.

So I will be very, very careful before I buy a Star Trek book again.

 

[Oddish]

I like Martok and Worf as characters. But they are too much Starfleet and Federation to be in charge of the Klingon Empire. The Klingon Empire need someone like Gowron who can be a good but somewhat unreliable ally to the Federation.

That ending didn't sit well with me for multiple reasons. Gowron deserved better than to be destroyed by an Oedipus paradox*. And it felt like Worf made a huge mess and just unceremoniously dropped it in Martok's lap.

The same with Cardassia too. It was logic that the old military regime was overthrown. But i don't want it to be justa puppet state to the Federation.

Cardassia shouldn't be a threat to anyone for some time, regardless of who's in charge. After facing a near planet-wide genocide, it's going to need to rebuild, probably with Federation assistance.

Unfortunately, he's also the "whipping boy" in some books, the guy who gets injured and is close to death.

If a character suffers and grows or changes from the experience, that's sort of tolerable. Harry, like most of the other VOY characters, barely grew at all.

So I will be very, very careful before I buy a Star Trek book again.

Well, I'd tell you to skip "Autobiography" anyway, because it acknowledges That Kes Episode. But by and large, the characters' final fates aren't too bad. Certainly nothing like that "Hermit in a castle who gets pregnant with herself" nonsense.


*When a given event was caused solely by a person's efforts to prevent it. Like when Oedipus, when told that he was destined to kill his father, left his adoptive father's home to prevent this... and wound up meeting and killing his biological father.

 

[Lynx]

That ending didn't sit well with me for multiple reasons. Gowron deserved better than to be destroyed by an Oedipus paradox*. And it felt like Worf made a huge mess and just unceremoniously dropped it in Martok's lap.

That whole scenario was just bad.

Cardassia shouldn't be a threat to anyone for some time, regardless of who's in charge. After facing a near planet-wide genocide, it's going to need to rebuild, probably with Federation assistance.

That's true. But Cardassia should also be faced with the risk of regressive powers taking over the society. In some of the books about Garak and Cardassia after the war, it was just that scenario. It could have been interesting to read further stories about Cardassia and Garak after the war if a certain author hadn't ruined it all.

If a character suffers and grows or changes from the experience, that's sort of tolerable. Harry, like most of the other VOY characters, barely grew at all.

Yes, that's right. But the problem with the Voyager books were that there were different authors involved. If a certain event happened in one book, it was totally forgotten in the next, not because of bad intents from the authors but because every author had his or her view of the series.

The books followed "canon" and changed because of events in the TV series, like Seska showing up as an ordinary helpful crewmeber on an away mission in the book The Escape which was written before the episode State Of Flux in which she is revealed as a Cardassian spy. At least three of the books were written before the show even was aired with authors having only the initial guidelines for the show to follow.

Still, most of the season 1-3 books are great and easy to fit into the ongoing timeline for the TV series.

Well, I'd tell you to skip "Autobiography" anyway, because it acknowledges That Kes Episode. But by and large, the characters' final fates aren't too bad. Certainly nothing like that "Hermit in a castle who gets pregnant with herself" nonsense.

I remember that you or whoever it was who warned me about the content in the book mentioned that and I guess that was the main reason why I didn't buy it.

Strange that no author (except me of course) dare to wipe out that crap by rewriting it in some way. At least Christie Golden did a decent try in the Dark Matters trilogy books.

As for the other characters, I'm not interested in reading about characters like Chakotay, Paris, Tuvok and other characters living uninteresting post-Voyager lives just like any Mr Smith. I find it as interesting as watching wet paint dry.

*When a given event was caused solely by a person's efforts to prevent it. Like when Oedipus, when told that he was destined to kill his father, left his adoptive father's home to prevent this... and wound up meeting and killing his biological father.

Yes, I'm familiar with that scenario.

In fact, Tuvok mentions a similar scenario in the Voyager book Ragnarok in which he mentions that the Norse gods had knowledge of the future which included a final battle between them and their enemies but despite that, they couldn't change the outcome of the battle in which the gods and their enemies all were killed.

I'm still fascinated that Tuvok had such great knowledge of ancient Norse culture!

 

[Oddish]

That's true. But Cardassia should also be faced with the risk of regressive powers taking over the society. In some of the books about Garak and Cardassia after the war, it was just that scenario. It could have been interesting to read further stories about Cardassia and Garak after the war if a certain author hadn't ruined it all.

No book author can ruin Trek canon, any more than they can fix it. Despite him ranking up in multiple post-VOY novelizations, Harry is still locked in limbo, with a canonical rank of ensign.

Yes, that's right. But the problem with the Voyager books were that there were different authors involved. If a certain event happened in one book, it was totally forgotten in the next, not because of bad intents from the authors but because every author had his or her view of the series.

And because the books were intended to not be canon. Except for licensed novelizations of specific TV episodes or movies.

I remember that you or whoever it was who warned me about the content in the book mentioned that and I guess that was the main reason why I didn't buy it.

I hope I didn’t do you a disservice.

Strange that no author (except me of course) dare to wipe out that crap by rewriting it in some way. At least Christie Golden did a decent try in the Dark Matters trilogy books.

If it helps, my "Roads Not Taken" timeline deletes several events. Including "Threshold" and That Episode, because I consider both to be mistakes.

As for the other characters, I'm not interested in reading about characters like Chakotay, Paris, Tuvok and other characters living uninteresting post-Voyager lives just like any Mr Smith. I find it as interesting as watching wet paint dry.

You don't like them being killed off, but you don't like them living happily ever after. Do you have a preferred fate for them?

In fact, Tuvok mentions a similar scenario in the Voyager book Ragnarok in which he mentions that the Norse gods had knowledge of the future which included a final battle between them and their enemies but despite that, they couldn't change the outcome of the battle in which the gods and their enemies all were killed.

Oedipus is that on steroids. If he hadn't tried to stop the prophecy that he would kill his father and marry his mother () from coming to pass, he would have lived quite happily with his adoptive parents, watching both die natural deaths. And, he would never have met his biological parents at all.

Ditto with Gowron. If he had just not worried about Martok and led the Empire's war effort competently, he would have had nothing to worry about. Martok had no desire and no intention to become Chancellor, and would have never challenged him. It was his efforts to stop Martok from taking his place that caused it.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

How far offtopic this thread went...

 

[Oddish]

How far offtopic this thread went...

They do that.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

I know that.

 

[Oddish]

Regarding Seven, basically...

Janeway: Mentor. 3/5
Doctor: Mentor as well. 4/5
Harry: Has the hots for her. 2/5
B'Elanna: Adversarial. 4/5
Chakotay: Unexplained romantic interest. 0/5
Tuvok: Not much. 2/5
Tom: Not much. 2/5
Neelix: General irritant. 1/5
Naomi: Fellow kadis-tot player, little sister, and partner in crime. 5/5