Spoilers "Superman & Lois": The Fourth and Final Season

[TREK_GOD_1]

Well, I still hate this version of Luthor. He's got no redeeming or attractive qualities

He's a screen villain. The better villains--whether completely fictional or based on a real person--by their very nature are irredeemable and not attractive in any sense (e.g. Sidious, Casino's "Nicky Santoro", et al.).

Like, seriously, these baroque emotionally-devastating murder-schemes are so wildly traumatic and damaging, at some point, someone is going to figure out that carrying a gun and shooting Lex Luthor on sight is going to cause you fewer problems than letting walk up and threaten you with some Saw-trap nightmare.

That solution would never happen on a series like this one. Another WB DC series--Black Lightning--pushed a couple of its characters to that level, but that was a series that had many characters walk closer to reality than Superman and Lois on this specific idea.

Have you met humanity?

 

[David cgc]

He's a screen villain. The better villains--whether completely fictional or based on a real person--by their very nature are irredeemable and not attractive in any sense (e.g. Sidious, Casino's "Nicky Santoro", et al.).

I meant more cinematically attractive. He's not enjoyable to watch, and I have difficulty believing anyone would work with him, willingly or unwillingly, which makes the whole idea of him being a kingpin, never mind a CEO who'd still have the potential to be a beloved celebrity after seventeen years in prison, risible. Darth Sidious gave the Trade Federation the keys to Naboo, then helped Amidala kick the Trade Federation the hell off Naboo. Even in the end, he wasn't showing Anakin a video-feed of Clone snipers with Padmé in their sights to get him to betray the Jedi, he offered Anakin something he wanted that no one (ostensibly no one else, but really just no one) could give him.

It's like that "save the cat" screenwriter cliche? The villain needs to establish that they can participate effectively in criminal society, grow a following, maintain alliances. Luthor hasn't done anything for anyone, made a deal, passed a bribe, operated some kind of lucrative black-market, eliminated a threat, been decent company socially... all he's done is coerce people with murder-threats or actual murder. Presumably his entire organization is some kind of circular firing-squad where all his goons are themselves under threat of having their loved-ones murdered by his other goons, since we haven't seen anything that would make anyone willingly work for Lex. The closest things we've got, with Otis and not-Mercy, just seem to be deranged and personally obsessed with him. He certainly doesn't seem to treat them with respect, beyond simply glaring at them rather than handing them cell-phones connected to their loved ones who are tied up by strange gunmen whenever they annoy him.

As I said, he's not a villain so much as a monster. They're two different kinds of narrative threat, and the show is trying to treat him as a villain while only giving him the danger and unpredictability of a monster. There's a reason Oddjob works for Goldfinger, not the other way around.

 

[Christopher]

I meant more cinematically attractive. He's not enjoyable to watch, and I have difficulty believing anyone would work with him, willingly or unwillingly, which makes the whole idea of him being a kingpin, never mind a CEO who'd still have the potential to be a beloved celebrity after seventeen years in prison, risible.

Have you looked at Donald Trump? Lots of visually and personally unpleasant people become business leaders or gain large followings. Many people are attracted to power and success (or the constructed illusion of success in the case of Trump or Musk) above all else.

 

[JD]

It's a shame they seem to have mishandled Lex so badly, especially after Supergirl gave us one of the absolute best onscreen Lexs ever with John Cryer.

 

[The Realist]

I think some folks are coming down a little hard on S&L's Luthor, but yes, Cryer's was a far superior portrayal of the character. Still, his version would not have worked as well in the specific context S&L has chosen, nor would he have fit the overall tone of the show -- though it would have been interesting to see Cryer try to adapt his performance to this characterization and series (after his revelatory turn on Supergirl, I realize he's a much more versatile actor than I once gave him credit for).

 

[Tosk]

Personally, I don't mind this Lex at all. But I always liked Hackman's Lex too. I don't mind a different approach.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

The series has not "mishandled" Luthor in the slightest. I see no widespread outcry about Cudlitz's performance or the type of person this Luthor happens to be, compared to other versions of the character.

 

[Christopher]

It's a shame they seem to have mishandled Lex so badly, especially after Supergirl gave us one of the absolute best onscreen Lexs ever with John Cryer.

I do think he's a little more interesting in the new episodes than he was in season 3, so hopefully they'll continue to flesh him out and improve his portrayal. Though you're right that it's a letdown after Supergirl's Lex, which was probably the most authentic live-action adaptation ever of the comics' Lex Luthor.

Still, his version would not have worked as well in the specific context S&L has chosen

But that's exactly the issue -- that they chose to approach Luthor this way instead of a different way. Everything in fiction is the creators' choice, so that goes without saying. But some choices work better than others.

If by "the specific context" you mean a story where Luthor seeks revenge on Lois and her family, I consider that a bad choice, for the reason I stated above -- that superhero stories should be about the heroes dedicating themselves to helping others, not just protecting themselves and their immediate families. Plus, revenge dramas are a dime a dozen. It's a boring and petty motive. In the words of one of modern fiction's smartest villains, David Xanatos from Gargoyles, "Revenge is a sucker's game." A villain perceptive enough to realize that is more interesting than one who's driven by revenge, because revenge is a cliche.

 

[David cgc]

Have you looked at Donald Trump? Lots of visually and personally unpleasant people become business leaders or gain large followings. Many people are attracted to power and success (or the constructed illusion of success in the case of Trump or Musk) above all else.

Trump and Musk have attractive public personas (or had them for a long time). Trump spent his life cultivating the image of success, securing loans even when he was broke and bankrupt on the grounds that he couldn't function as a businessman without constantly flaunting his affluent lifestyle. The supermodel wives, affairs, gold apartment, using his name as a brand on everything, even if it struck you as phony, it was all there. And then his political career was based entirely on being a straight-shooter who'd tell it like it is compared to all those crooked politicians (by simply acting like all the exaggerations and urban legends in the zeitgeist were actually true, where earlier politicians would talk the talk, but wouldn't actually try to solve "problems" they knew were just rumors and scare-mongering).

Musk, likewise, has a similar persona of the person who does what others only talk about doing, pushing electric cars and reusable spacecraft where entrenched interests had been delaying them.

If it was just "money + psycho = beloved," you'd be giving the examples of Peter Thiel and Marc Andreessen. And they also have social capital and connections beyond just a theoretical supply of infinite money, they don't live in an abandoned hotel so they can stalk one person who already made amends for wronging them while burning off their fortune to do so, and they don't have Mark Zuckerberg's kids locked in a tiger-cage so he'll do as they say.

 

[Christopher]

Trump and Musk have attractive public personas (or had them for a long time).

Everyone who knows Trump personally loathes him, but a lot of people still worked for him because they believed it was in their best interests (until he screwed them over and made them pay the price for his incompetence and failures). And I gather that people who have worked with Musk directly find him rather stupid, in contrast to the public illusion he's built of being a real-life Tony Stark.

You were talking about Lex as a character we're actually watching onscreen, whether he's personally charismatic or appealing. My point is that someone can be unpleasant in person yet still have an appealing illusory persona in the media. It's quite possible that this Lex has had such a media persona created for him, but we're seeing beneath that facade to the genuine article. So what we're seeing is not incompatible with him being successful.

 

[David cgc]

It's quite possible that this Lex has had such a media persona created for him, but we're seeing beneath that facade to the genuine article.

I'm willing to meet my fiction more than halfway, but they haven't shown any evidence or aspects of such a facade. I shouldn't have to imagine a subplot or make assumptions to make their character function. Even one scene of Lex doing something other than choosing violence would've been enough.

 

[The Realist]

FWIW, I noticed he was rather mild and even pleasant when talking to Sarah in the diner.

 

[Christopher]

I'm willing to meet my fiction more than halfway, but they haven't shown any evidence or aspects of such a facade.

I'm not saying they did. I'm just skeptical of the assertion that it's necessary in general for someone to be personally charismatic in order to gain a following. Specific and general argument are two different things, and I think that general proposition doesn't hold water and thus isn't effective as a critique of this specific portrayal of Luthor, although there are certainly other, more valid bases for critiquing it.

 

[Commander Troi]

While I got a little tired of the CGI fight in space (I kept yelling, "use your brain, not your fists!"), overall I enjoyed the episodes. I especially liked Sam taunting and escaping from "Gretchen". Jordan is far too easy to manipulate - I liked Lois talking honestly about that with Lana. Also, good to see Lana and her daughter again (loved her trying to stall Lex at the diner). Like most of you, I wondered where the hell John Henry was. I did like the guy (and Lex) figuring out the secret identity - that's not something easily hidden in this situation, so I'm glad they didn't try to do so.

 

[Nerys Myk]

They'll use Doomsday's heart to save Superman.

 

[Christopher]

While I got a little tired of the CGI fight in space (I kept yelling, "use your brain, not your fists!")

This is why I hate the concept of Doomsday, period. Superman isn't just a pile of muscle; he has a keen intellect and a lively imagination. Even if Doomsday outmuscled him, he should've been able to think rings around such a mindless monster and defeat it decisively.

 

[Tuskin38]

I'm guessing they had his cape ripped off so they wouldn't have to animate it in the CG scenes lmao.

 

[Christopher]

I'm guessing they had his cape ripped off so they wouldn't have to animate it in the CG scenes lmao.

The Supergirl CGI team never seemed to mind.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

The Supergirl CGI team never seemed to mind.

S&L is working with a very reduced budget this season. Also, it would not be the worst thing in the world if the working conditions for VFX artists had improved in the last couple of years.

Don't get me wrong, I'm psyched the James Gunn movie put the yellow \S/ back on the cape, which had been taken off pretty much since TAS and any live-action incarnation since for the exact reason to make it easier to animate, but that movie obviously does have a way higher budget and a longer schedule than The CW shows.

 

[Christopher]

S&L is working with a very reduced budget this season. Also, it would not be the worst thing in the world if the working conditions for VFX artists had improved in the last couple of years.

Hmm... Do you suppose that's part of the reason they're doing a "Death of Superman" thing? So there are fewer expensive superhero action scenes and more focus on mere mortals? Although it looks like Steel will go into action next week.