Just a reminder for those who are interested (and who still watch TV shows "live" as they air): The two-hour season premiere of Superman & Lois is tonight at 8:00 ET on The CW.
Spoilers "Superman & Lois": The Fourth and Final Season
- Thread starter The Realist
- Start date
A category I can now rejoin, since I now have a smart TV with a digital antenna, so I can watch The CW live for the first time in years.
I watch it on the Canadian Space Channel, I'll have to see if they're playing it
showed up on my TIVO's to record list so it's being shown on Space.
The premiere was okay. Cudlitz actually got to play Luthor with a bit more range and subtlety that made him more effective than the one-note angry thug he was last season. And the Clark-Lois relationship flashbacks were nice.
I still find Doomsday the least interesting Superman villain, just a mindless pile of muscle, the laziest and most simplistic way ever to create a foe that could kill Superman, as if Superman were defined exclusively by brute force, which has never been the case. And the occasional cutaways to hard-to-follow, unconvincing CGI battles in space didn't change that opinion any. Also, the opening shot was stupid -- the Moon has 1/6 Earth gravity, not zero gravity. Heck, even if it were weightless, it's also airless, so cape fragments and rocks kicked up in the battle wouldn't come to a standstill and hover in place, but would continue moving on their initial trajectories until they hit something, per Newton's laws.
I was disappointed by the second episode. I was hoping they'd resolve the whole "Death of Superman" nonsense by the end of the second hour, because DC productions have gone to that well far too often in recent years, and it's not like it was ever all that great a story to begin with, and S&L already did a sort of death-of-Superman arc in season 2. And because the whole episode was just so relentlessly grim and dark, and I don't understand filmmakers who think that the way to tell Superman stories is to strip all the hope and joy out of them.
Plus the whole story premise was dumb. First off, Kryptonian technology can build interstellar spacecraft and mind-transfer devices and insta-grow crystal fortresses, but they can't whip up an artificial heart, or clone a replacement from Clark's tissue? That's extremely hard to believe. Second, if that really was Superman's heart Luthor was holding, it would be indestructible in Earth conditions, unless it was exposed to kryptonite, which by this show's precedent would've had a visible effect on its appearance. Plus Luthor would've had no reason to make Doomsday steal Superman's heart if he was only going to smash it later, since at the time he wouldn't have known he'd have a reason to taunt Jordan with it. So the heart was obviously, obviously a fake, and the script forced the entire Kent-Lane family to carry the idiot ball and fall for it. Lois Lane, of all people, should know better than to take anything Lex Luthor says or does at face value.
Also, I don't like the implication that the driving arc this season will be about Lois and the boys trying to protect themselves from Lex's retaliation. Stories about heroes are supposed to be about them selflessly helping other people. One of the biggest faults of serialized TV is that it tends to focus on the main characters dealing with their own personal messes or trying to fix problems they caused, so it's far more self-centered and less heroic.
Well, at least we've got the lovely Yvonne Chapman joining the cast as a character who isn't named Mercy Graves but might as well be, and it looks like the even lovelier Elizabeth Henstridge will be playing Lex's daughter (her photo was on the bulletin board in Lex's hotel room).
I still find Doomsday the least interesting Superman villain, just a mindless pile of muscle, the laziest and most simplistic way ever to create a foe that could kill Superman, as if Superman were defined exclusively by brute force, which has never been the case. And the occasional cutaways to hard-to-follow, unconvincing CGI battles in space didn't change that opinion any. Also, the opening shot was stupid -- the Moon has 1/6 Earth gravity, not zero gravity. Heck, even if it were weightless, it's also airless, so cape fragments and rocks kicked up in the battle wouldn't come to a standstill and hover in place, but would continue moving on their initial trajectories until they hit something, per Newton's laws.
I was disappointed by the second episode. I was hoping they'd resolve the whole "Death of Superman" nonsense by the end of the second hour, because DC productions have gone to that well far too often in recent years, and it's not like it was ever all that great a story to begin with, and S&L already did a sort of death-of-Superman arc in season 2. And because the whole episode was just so relentlessly grim and dark, and I don't understand filmmakers who think that the way to tell Superman stories is to strip all the hope and joy out of them.
Plus the whole story premise was dumb. First off, Kryptonian technology can build interstellar spacecraft and mind-transfer devices and insta-grow crystal fortresses, but they can't whip up an artificial heart, or clone a replacement from Clark's tissue? That's extremely hard to believe. Second, if that really was Superman's heart Luthor was holding, it would be indestructible in Earth conditions, unless it was exposed to kryptonite, which by this show's precedent would've had a visible effect on its appearance. Plus Luthor would've had no reason to make Doomsday steal Superman's heart if he was only going to smash it later, since at the time he wouldn't have known he'd have a reason to taunt Jordan with it. So the heart was obviously, obviously a fake, and the script forced the entire Kent-Lane family to carry the idiot ball and fall for it. Lois Lane, of all people, should know better than to take anything Lex Luthor says or does at face value.
Also, I don't like the implication that the driving arc this season will be about Lois and the boys trying to protect themselves from Lex's retaliation. Stories about heroes are supposed to be about them selflessly helping other people. One of the biggest faults of serialized TV is that it tends to focus on the main characters dealing with their own personal messes or trying to fix problems they caused, so it's far more self-centered and less heroic.
Well, at least we've got the lovely Yvonne Chapman joining the cast as a character who isn't named Mercy Graves but might as well be, and it looks like the even lovelier Elizabeth Henstridge will be playing Lex's daughter (her photo was on the bulletin board in Lex's hotel room).
^ Lots of negativity there, and many of the complaints are familiar from past seasons. I guess we can conclude at this late date that this isn't ever going to be the Superman show for you.
I didn't think these initial episodes were as strong as the absolutely stellar work that marked much of last season, but there was still much to appreciate. The flashbacks to Lois and Clark's early days were as charming and enjoyable as ever, and always kind of make me wish we could have gotten a more traditional Metropolis/Daily Planet based show with Tulloch and Hoechlin, since they clearly would have killed it. I particularly loved the scene where the two are about to "do it" for what turns out to be Clark's first time. (Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman also went the "Clark as virgin" route with him and Lois, which I always found rather sweet.) Tulloch's "Then get ready for the new best day of your life" made me LOL.
I felt a real sense of jeopardy when Sam was buried alive, and I guess that's going to be the case throughout this final season, where the deaths of supporting characters -- who are no longer even regular cast members, but merely guest players -- seem more on the table. (The preview for next week teases a potential dire fate for John Henry.)
Speaking of, the budget/cast cuts were generally not too keenly felt, but I did wonder where the Ironses were in the midst of all this. With Superman's death, Sam's kidnapping, the search for Superman's heart, and the generally enormous threat that Luthor represents, it seems like two folks with power suits might have come in very handy. But there was not even a throwaway mention to explain their absence. Chrissy also just happened to be MIA every time we went to the Gazette.
I'm not as inclined toward nitpicking as Christopher, but I did wonder (after the initial shock had passed) if Superman's heart could really be crushed under someone's heel. If it's a fakeout, however, they'll need to find a way to reveal it that doesn't feel like a cheap shot perpetrated on the audience.
A consequence of the show's decision to set itself in Smallville that has been felt before, but which I felt again last night, is that it's just a little strange to have Lex Luthor lurking around the town's one-block main street and hanging out in the diner all the time. Seems a bit small-scale for the greatest criminal mind of our time. The character motivation is there, due to his vendetta against Lois, but Lex just seems built for bigger things.
Lots of fun Easter eggs for Superman fans in these episodes last night. A reference to "Milton" and what a "brainiac" he is. (One suspects that may prove more than a mere name-drop.) Another callback to "Eckworth Industries." (See this post for those deets.) The revelation that recurring Daily Planet reporter/producer Janet's last name is Olsen. (Jimmy's sister? Wife?)
Just a bunch of my random thoughts. Excited the show is back, and looking forward to the rest of the season.
I didn't think these initial episodes were as strong as the absolutely stellar work that marked much of last season, but there was still much to appreciate. The flashbacks to Lois and Clark's early days were as charming and enjoyable as ever, and always kind of make me wish we could have gotten a more traditional Metropolis/Daily Planet based show with Tulloch and Hoechlin, since they clearly would have killed it. I particularly loved the scene where the two are about to "do it" for what turns out to be Clark's first time. (Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman also went the "Clark as virgin" route with him and Lois, which I always found rather sweet.) Tulloch's "Then get ready for the new best day of your life" made me LOL.
I felt a real sense of jeopardy when Sam was buried alive, and I guess that's going to be the case throughout this final season, where the deaths of supporting characters -- who are no longer even regular cast members, but merely guest players -- seem more on the table. (The preview for next week teases a potential dire fate for John Henry.)
Speaking of, the budget/cast cuts were generally not too keenly felt, but I did wonder where the Ironses were in the midst of all this. With Superman's death, Sam's kidnapping, the search for Superman's heart, and the generally enormous threat that Luthor represents, it seems like two folks with power suits might have come in very handy. But there was not even a throwaway mention to explain their absence. Chrissy also just happened to be MIA every time we went to the Gazette.
I'm not as inclined toward nitpicking as Christopher, but I did wonder (after the initial shock had passed) if Superman's heart could really be crushed under someone's heel. If it's a fakeout, however, they'll need to find a way to reveal it that doesn't feel like a cheap shot perpetrated on the audience.
A consequence of the show's decision to set itself in Smallville that has been felt before, but which I felt again last night, is that it's just a little strange to have Lex Luthor lurking around the town's one-block main street and hanging out in the diner all the time. Seems a bit small-scale for the greatest criminal mind of our time. The character motivation is there, due to his vendetta against Lois, but Lex just seems built for bigger things.
Lots of fun Easter eggs for Superman fans in these episodes last night. A reference to "Milton" and what a "brainiac" he is. (One suspects that may prove more than a mere name-drop.) Another callback to "Eckworth Industries." (See this post for those deets.) The revelation that recurring Daily Planet reporter/producer Janet's last name is Olsen. (Jimmy's sister? Wife?)
Just a bunch of my random thoughts. Excited the show is back, and looking forward to the rest of the season.
After last nights premiere I was thinking that the “never before happened in Superman media” will be that Doomsday gets reverted back to Superman.
The new Superman will live on this new earth with the other Kent fam
The new Superman will live on this new earth with the other Kent fam
I forgot to mention how much I loved the bit when Luthor was talking about how nobody but Elizabeth ever loved him, and Jon pops up with something to the effect of, "Sounds like a 'you' problem." 
Props for balls, kid.
Props for balls, kid.
Then you clearly haven't been paying attention, or you'd recall that I largely enjoyed season 1 and mostly loved season 3, at least until they prematurely ended the excellent Mannheim arc and swerved to this mediocre Luthor/Doomsday business. No, this isn't the Earth-Prime Superman show I wanted, and season 2 was a huge misfire, but there's a lot I've liked about it, and so far its seasons are roughly 2 for 3. Episode 4x1 raised my hopes that the final season would be better than I feared, but 4x2 was quite disappointing and nonsensical. It remains to be seen which of the two is more typical of the season as a whole.
That was cute, although I found it strange that in a TV-PG show they couldn't just have Clark come out and say "I'm a virgin." I'd rather see adult characters in TV have mature, open, unashamed dialogues about their sexuality rather than tiptoeing around it like it was still the 1950s.
Too late -- it already feels like a cheap shot. It couldn't very well be anything but a fakeout.
Yeah, it is quite contrived. At least Smallville actually set a lot of its action in later seasons in Metropolis. I was thinking they might do that here, since relocating would help justify the cast cutbacks. But then they'd have to build new standing sets, and their goal with the cutbacks was to save money.
I would've guessed a gender-swapped Jimmy Olsen, except Jimmy was mentioned in flashback in "A Brief Reminiscence In-Between Cataclysmic Events" in season 1. (Then again, maybe this universe's J. Olsen is trans?)
Sorry, I just can't take this lex seriously.
Superman and Lois - the final season
Episode 1 - "The End and the Beginning" / "A World Without"
That is quite obvious.
GOOD: Much of what you're pointing out proves something I've believed about the series from the start: its strengths are on the family/domestic side rather than being a good representation of a Superman-helmed series. After season three's cancer arc, there's no doubt the family side is the draw, and not simply because its titled Superman and Lois, but the earned, well-developed appeal of the core supporting characters' stories.
Tulloch will remain the shining standout of this series (and most CW DC series overall), with her Lois visibly losing the emotional foundation to keep it all together as Luthor did not fail to live up to his threats. She tried to be strong for her sons and father, but her often fixed stare said that strength was more of a shell than shield. The flashbacks
Cudlitz continues to deliver the second best Luthor ever put before cameras, and it is so refreshing for the showrunners to acknowledge that the face of a successfully calculating businessman / highly intelligent villain does not come in one package, or type of personality. If anyone knows even a particle about real people, they do know this kind of brutal, prison-honed personality exists, thanks to not living in some dream world where all criminals of this type are only of the dimwitted lout variety incapable of mastering what some would consider the "higher" functions / actions in life.
BAD: If I had one complaint during hour one, it would be "Superboy" hitting Otis; even if he tried to pull his punch (or push), for Otis' body to produce a dent into any solid material would be enough to shatter his spine. But, TV villains need to be around for the final act, so he was well protected by plot armor.
Some read that scene as Clark being a virgin because he was always worried of the physical risk he would pose to a human woman, but I believed he was simply waiting for the right woman to come into his life.
I hope the showrunners do not go that route, an send a very bad message to a certain part of the audience.
BAD II: ^ This! The absence of father and daughter Irons--especially during the first hour--was a glaring omission. At the very least, they could have been on high alert / patrol, expecting the fight to return to earth.
Luthor would not be the first S&L villain or arc to conveniently set up shop and/or target Smallville. Budget is a clear reason for this, so it tends to make the S&L world appear small, when Superman--of all characters in the series--has to deal with threats around the world almost 24/7/365.
Personally, I hope the Braniac is never properly introduced into the series; the presense of another major villain with so few episodes left threatens a development-light rush job just to cram another A-list Big Bad into the mix who would never live up to his potential.
To avoid comparisons to Supergirl's Olsen family, I'd guess Janet is Jimmy's wife.
As noted in at the end of season three, the fight FX were largely early 2000s video-gamey, like the rest of this series, but the character strengths made the FX deficiencies somewhat tolerable.
GRADE: A-.
Episode 1 - "The End and the Beginning" / "A World Without"
That is quite obvious.
GOOD: Much of what you're pointing out proves something I've believed about the series from the start: its strengths are on the family/domestic side rather than being a good representation of a Superman-helmed series. After season three's cancer arc, there's no doubt the family side is the draw, and not simply because its titled Superman and Lois, but the earned, well-developed appeal of the core supporting characters' stories.
Tulloch will remain the shining standout of this series (and most CW DC series overall), with her Lois visibly losing the emotional foundation to keep it all together as Luthor did not fail to live up to his threats. She tried to be strong for her sons and father, but her often fixed stare said that strength was more of a shell than shield. The flashbacks
Cudlitz continues to deliver the second best Luthor ever put before cameras, and it is so refreshing for the showrunners to acknowledge that the face of a successfully calculating businessman / highly intelligent villain does not come in one package, or type of personality. If anyone knows even a particle about real people, they do know this kind of brutal, prison-honed personality exists, thanks to not living in some dream world where all criminals of this type are only of the dimwitted lout variety incapable of mastering what some would consider the "higher" functions / actions in life.
BAD: If I had one complaint during hour one, it would be "Superboy" hitting Otis; even if he tried to pull his punch (or push), for Otis' body to produce a dent into any solid material would be enough to shatter his spine. But, TV villains need to be around for the final act, so he was well protected by plot armor.
Some read that scene as Clark being a virgin because he was always worried of the physical risk he would pose to a human woman, but I believed he was simply waiting for the right woman to come into his life.
I hope the showrunners do not go that route, an send a very bad message to a certain part of the audience.
BAD II: ^ This! The absence of father and daughter Irons--especially during the first hour--was a glaring omission. At the very least, they could have been on high alert / patrol, expecting the fight to return to earth.
Luthor would not be the first S&L villain or arc to conveniently set up shop and/or target Smallville. Budget is a clear reason for this, so it tends to make the S&L world appear small, when Superman--of all characters in the series--has to deal with threats around the world almost 24/7/365.
Personally, I hope the Braniac is never properly introduced into the series; the presense of another major villain with so few episodes left threatens a development-light rush job just to cram another A-list Big Bad into the mix who would never live up to his potential.
To avoid comparisons to Supergirl's Olsen family, I'd guess Janet is Jimmy's wife.
As noted in at the end of season three, the fight FX were largely early 2000s video-gamey, like the rest of this series, but the character strengths made the FX deficiencies somewhat tolerable.
GRADE: A-.
They've previously announced that they have cast Jimmy himself to debut sometime this season.
Well, I still hate this version of Luthor. He's got no redeeming or attractive qualities, all he does is intimidate and fail to be intimidated. It's like they're trying to do an intense chess-match psychological drama with a grizzly bear, or a xenomorph, and I'm just wondering, "Why doesn't anyone just shoot him like the dangerous, rabid animal he is?" Clearly, with his penchant for taking away anything anyone has left to lose, at some point, he'd have enough people who called his bluff and are revenge-addled shells that walking around with his big dumb baby-head alone in broad daylight would stop being practical.
Like, seriously, these baroque emotionally-devastating murder-schemes are so wildly traumatic and damaging, at some point, someone is going to figure out that carrying a gun and shooting Lex Luthor on sight is going to cause you fewer problems than letting walk up and threaten you with some Saw-trap nightmare.
Like, seriously, these baroque emotionally-devastating murder-schemes are so wildly traumatic and damaging, at some point, someone is going to figure out that carrying a gun and shooting Lex Luthor on sight is going to cause you fewer problems than letting walk up and threaten you with some Saw-trap nightmare.
As I mentioned, I thought he showed a little more depth and nuance this time, and the fact that his anger at Lois is because she prevented him from seeing his daughter grow up makes him a little sympathetic. But yeah, his obsession with revenge on people who wronged him is a rather petty motivation.
And that whole voice-mail "Choose which of your sons will die" shtick was pretty creepy in the moment, a nasty piece of psychological warfare that forces Lois to live with having chosen one son over the other; but the fact that both sons survived reduces it to an empty bluff in retrospect and makes Luthor seem ineffectual. I can't imagine most other versions of Lex Luthor making a threat like that without knowing for certain that both sons were in his people's crosshairs and that every variable was under his control.
Have you met humanity?
I meant it's a rather petty motivation compared to what one would expect of Lex Luthor. True, most versions of Lex are driven by an unshakeable vendetta against Superman, but that's Superman. In most portrayals, he resents Superman being more powerful or more beloved than he is, because he's used to being the most powerful human around and Superman threatens his dominance. So a vendetta against a mere mortal does seem pettier in comparison.
Although now that I think about it, I suppose it is kind of an interesting idea to take that element of Luthor's vendetta against the lead character and transfer it to the other lead character, making Lois the target instead of Superman. So I guess I see what they were going for. But I'm still not sure it works, since having his vendetta be simply against the reporter who put him away makes him feel more like just a conventional mob boss rather than a supervillain.
Katee Sackhoff interviewed Bitsie Tullouch a few weeks. I didn’t know Bitsie studied at Harvard. She’s seems incredibly smart
She talks about Superman and Lois season 4 at the 28 minute mark. Her husband directs the 3rd episode of season 4
She talks about the cast getting cut down from 13 to 5 core cast members and the budget cuts
Really good interview
She talks about Superman and Lois season 4 at the 28 minute mark. Her husband directs the 3rd episode of season 4
She talks about the cast getting cut down from 13 to 5 core cast members and the budget cuts
Really good interview
It's also moderately crazy-making for me that he's so upset that it's because Lois reported on a fabricated recording of him, when, one, she's also the person who owned up to it being a fake as soon as she found out, and, two, he's done a ton of other heinous shit before and after that. And no one is discussing this!
Like, is he claiming that if he'd genuinely slipped up and she'd reported on a murder he actually committed, he'd be all, "Fair is fair, you got me"? Is that his beef? If so, does anyone think that's true? What's the narrative point of that element, beyond letting him be inside, and then out of, prison, especially since they went to the trouble of having flashbacks that established he was already threatening Lois and trying to murder Superman before he went to prison?
Also, the kidnapping, torture, and attempted murder of a four-star general seems like the kind of thing that would get Luthor put on one of those list where, after he's killed by some kind of robotic airplane, the government dismissively asserts that if he wanted his right to due process respected, he should've made better life-choices.
Okay, that made me
.One imagines it will generate additional drama when the boys find out about it -- especially which one she didn't choose to save. (Logically, BTW, that would be Jordan, since he's far less vulnerable than Jon. But emotions don't always respect logic, and I imagine either boy might feel wounded learning Mom picked the other.)
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