Augments and the thing about the Eugenics War. Why are they still a big no no?

[Mr. Laser Beam]

If engineering was allowed then parents would feel pressured to have their children enhanced so that they could keep up - that's precisely what prompted the ban on DNA resequencing in the first place.

Indeed. That's also what has occurred in the movie Gattaca, for example - in that universe, mundanes (those who aren't engineered) have no rights, and are basically slaves to those who ARE genetically engineered.

I find it extremely likely that this is also what would occur if genetic engineering ever became widespread in the real world. That can't be a cheap process. Not everyone would have access to it. So it needs to be banned, to prevent exactly this kind of world from arising.

The playing field needs to be absolutely leveled. If there are people who can't gain access to genetic engneering, then nobody must be allowed to.. That's the only way to ensure absolute fairness.

its none of their damn businesss. Khan died a long time ago. they shouldn't have to frikkin worry about good people like Bashir or anyone else.

Bashir was a fluke. An Augment that turned out good. Major roll of the dice there. It was sheer, blind luck that he didn't turn out to be another Khan.

Lal was doing just fine before that jerkwad tried to take her away to be "studied" before she had an emotional breakdown that caused her to malfunction and to die or whatever

Lal's breakdown was inevitable. Admiral Haftel's actions didn't kill her; her mind simply wasn't prepared for basic human emotion. It wasn't anyone's fault that she died.

 

[fireproof78]

none of their damn businesss. Khan died a long time ago. they shouldn't have to frikkin worry about good people like Bashir or anyone else.

They've tried. It failed.

 

[Frontis]

Starfleet/the Federation says they're not racists or whatever. Please. They're frikking racist/predjucie still

Discovery and everything before and during the PIcad show, everyone still is and have been racist towards aliens and androids and they're still griping about the rules of augments yada yada thinking they're going to turn out like Khan.

When was the Federation racist? Examples?

 

[urrutiap]

When was the Federation racist? Examples?

seriously? you blind?

Enterprise show, Discovery, Strange New Worlds, Picard.

the Xindi any variant form of them Archer was hell bent on killing the all. That and Peter Weller's jerkwad character in the Enterprise show

 

[urrutiap]

and while the Vulcans were acting shady and secretive of sorts, Archer and gang started off being rude to the Vulcans every chance they got

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

seriously? you blind?

Enterprise show, Discovery, Strange New Worlds, Picard.

the Xindi any variant form of them Archer was hell bent on killing the all. That and Peter Weller's jerkwad character in the Enterprise show

Enterprise was set before the Federation and was about humans, Vulcans etc. getting past their prejudice and working together.

 

[fireproof78]

seriously? you blind?

Enterprise show, Discovery, Strange New Worlds, Picard.

the Xindi any variant form of them Archer was hell bent on killing the all. That and Peter Weller's jerkwad character in the Enterprise show

That's not the Federation, by definition.

 

[The Wormhole]

the Xindi any variant form of them Archer was hell bent on killing the all.

Archer wasn't like that because he was bigoted. He was like that because the Xindi attacked Earth killing millions innocent and he learned they had plans on destroying the planet and wiping out all humanity. That's not bigotry anymore than a Jew living in the 1940s can be considered a bigot for not having a positive opinion on Germans.

 

[HotRod]

the Xindi any variant form of them Archer was hell bent on killing the all.

Did we watch the same show?

 

[1001001]

seriously? you blind?

You have been warned about posting like this numerous times. It is personal and in bad faith.

Warning for flaming.

• No flaming. You can't call someone an ass or even use a tame term. If it's getting personal, step away from the computer.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

Starfleet's fierce exclusion of Augments makes no sense.

"Captain, is it really a good idea to have a Klingon serving as an officer? Klingons have super-strength, and are prone to violent conquest."

"Lieutenant! I won't have that kind of bigotry on my ship!"

"Oh! Well in that case, may my friend who was born or made an Augment against her will join Starfleet?"

"Of course not! Augments have super-strength, and are prone to violent conquest."

Outlawing genetic engineering does make sense, but discriminating against unwilling Augments does not. Rape is illegal, but it's not legal for your job to fire you just because they found out that you were the product of rape.

I suppose Starfleet might ban Augments as a way to discourage parents from breaking the law and Augmenting their kids anyway, since prison isn't always a good enough deterrent. That's all I got.

 

[Oddish]

suppose Starfleet might ban Augments as a way to discourage parents from breaking the law and Augmenting their kids anyway, since prison isn't always a good enough deterrent. That's all I got.

My belief is that Starfleet knows they need a strong firewall against genetic engineering... if they start permitting it in Federation society, then the GE crowd will rapidly rise to the top due to greater strength, intelligence, and other attributes, and the non-GE crowd will become second class citizens. It will become essentially necessary to genetically engineer your child. Imagine if every non-engineered kid wound up like Jules Bashir, perpetually second best... not a pretty picture.

Khan Singh might be the most vocally presented threat when the subject of legitimizing genetic engineering comes up... but he's not the worst or the most insidious.

 

[Nyotarules]

My belief is that Starfleet knows they need a strong firewall against genetic engineering... if they start permitting it in Federation society, then the GE crowd will rapidly rise to the top due to greater strength, intelligence, and other attributes, and the non-GE crowd will become second class citizens. It will become essentially necessary to genetically engineer your child. Imagine if every non-engineered kid wound up like Jules Bashir, perpetually second best... not a pretty picture.

Khan Singh might be the most vocally presented threat when the subject of legitimizing genetic engineering comes up... but he's not the worst or the most insidious.

Does not stop humans from rising to the top in a UFP with aliens that have greater strength, intelligence and even telepathy.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

Does not stop humans from rising to the top in a UFP with aliens that have greater strength, intelligence and even telepathy.

Plus, the things that so often go horribly wrong with genetic engineering would also be a deterrent. The "Jack Pack" are implied to be the more common outcome, with Bashir being the exception.