"Son, please....cut your hair."
"This IS it after a haircut, Father!"
[*Long Sarek sigh*]
Spoilers Strange New Worlds General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter NewHeavensNewEarth
- Start date
"Son, please....cut your hair."
"This IS it after a haircut, Father!"
[*Long Sarek sigh*]
They do realize that you can use humor to throw a spotlight on things like prejudice. I don think any of the Spock episodes where the ending is "Yay Racism!!!!"
Perhaps you would like to join Michael and Spock at the children's table?
That's where Sarek sits for being such a lousy parent. 
It really wasn't like that. She brought up examples of both "All X are Y" and instances where Trek moved way beyond that. But I can understand how you could get that after her opening few minutes. It wasn't well planned out.
Humour doesn't always excuse it. Especially when it consistently happens.
Excuses what? That to discuss racism in fiction you have to show racism?
7 minutes in: Lots of examples from ENT, TNG, VOY. Nooooot (Notttttt?) so much from TOS. She showed Amok Time (the most Vulcans we ever saw in TOS) and even there T'Pring, while duplicitous, was scrupulously logical. Spock's emotions were an aberration even for Spock brought on by the plak tow. (Looks it up. YES! Got it right!)
Ahhhhh. Here we go. "Bioessentialism?" This seems to be an argument that classes of human beings could be classed by race. Except we are talking about an ACTUAL different race. Like dogs, cats, dolphins, humans, vulcans. (OK, now I'm wondering why Vulcans is capitalized?)
Sorry - Garden of Eden is Catholic? I will cede my time to the Jews. Thank you.
I can't help but notice that all of the "problematic representations of alien cultures" in TNG come from 1st season TNG. Oh Gene. You would be more canceled than Joss Whedon if you were alive today. (Die the hero live to become something something...)
Klingons being inspired by Japanese Samurai? Really? At what point? There were a lot of years before the coming of the Moore. (If someone can point to some memo from Gene Coon - with a witty retort from Bob Justman peace be upon him - I will be gratefully educated.)
"Because you disapprove of FERENGI VALUES you scorn us!" Hmmmm. So. What are we thinking of Ferengi values these days? Anyway, I don't recall there ever being any plot point that Ferengi were biologically capitalist. There were several episodes of Trek where Vulcans were biologically unemotional. Does that make sense with "the teachings of Surak?" Perhaps not.
The "making fun of Vulcan stuff that we've been seeing throughout Strange New Worlds tend to center around the character of Spock." Yes. Because if they centered around M'Benga it would be weird.
"...do I have to hold on to this more emotional side of myself as a human" -- So, what does "as a human" mean when compared with "as a Vulcan"? It's not like he was raised in Pittsburgh!
"the movies he kind of like finds a better balance and pulls more towards humans through his friendship with Kirk and McCoy" -- Hey, there's this incredibly underrated film that has this whooooole journey that was made in 1979.
The problem is that we keep using Spock as an example of "Vulcan". We were told repeatedly in TOS (and now SNW) that Spock is not, strictly speaking, Vulcan. The only full Vulcans with speaking parts in TOS are T'Pring, Stonn, T'pau ( ), and Sarek. Oh, and an Excalbian pretending to be Surak.
OK, I can't do this anymore. (Hey, quit cheering.) Since Star Trek is often a metaphor perhaps Vulcans are now a bad metaphor. But waaaaay back in the 1960's they were an alien race and they were emotionally and biologically as well as culturally different from us.
At least the video didn't complain that they got pointed ears. (And nobody seems any greener. That would be problematic.)
I made it 18 minutes.
Ahhhhh. Here we go. "Bioessentialism?" This seems to be an argument that classes of human beings could be classed by race. Except we are talking about an ACTUAL different race. Like dogs, cats, dolphins, humans, vulcans. (OK, now I'm wondering why Vulcans is capitalized?)
Sorry - Garden of Eden is Catholic? I will cede my time to the Jews. Thank you.
I can't help but notice that all of the "problematic representations of alien cultures" in TNG come from 1st season TNG. Oh Gene. You would be more canceled than Joss Whedon if you were alive today. (Die the hero live to become something something...)
Klingons being inspired by Japanese Samurai? Really? At what point? There were a lot of years before the coming of the Moore. (If someone can point to some memo from Gene Coon - with a witty retort from Bob Justman peace be upon him - I will be gratefully educated.)
"Because you disapprove of FERENGI VALUES you scorn us!" Hmmmm. So. What are we thinking of Ferengi values these days? Anyway, I don't recall there ever being any plot point that Ferengi were biologically capitalist. There were several episodes of Trek where Vulcans were biologically unemotional. Does that make sense with "the teachings of Surak?" Perhaps not.
The "making fun of Vulcan stuff that we've been seeing throughout Strange New Worlds tend to center around the character of Spock." Yes. Because if they centered around M'Benga it would be weird.
"...do I have to hold on to this more emotional side of myself as a human" -- So, what does "as a human" mean when compared with "as a Vulcan"? It's not like he was raised in Pittsburgh!
"the movies he kind of like finds a better balance and pulls more towards humans through his friendship with Kirk and McCoy" -- Hey, there's this incredibly underrated film that has this whooooole journey that was made in 1979.
The problem is that we keep using Spock as an example of "Vulcan". We were told repeatedly in TOS (and now SNW) that Spock is not, strictly speaking, Vulcan. The only full Vulcans with speaking parts in TOS are T'Pring, Stonn, T'pau ( ), and Sarek. Oh, and an Excalbian pretending to be Surak.
OK, I can't do this anymore. (Hey, quit cheering.) Since Star Trek is often a metaphor perhaps Vulcans are now a bad metaphor. But waaaaay back in the 1960's they were an alien race and they were emotionally and biologically as well as culturally different from us.
At least the video didn't complain that they got pointed ears. (And nobody seems any greener. That would be problematic.)
I made it 18 minutes.
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They need to learn some more Trek history. The Klingons were straight up Cold War analogs of the Soviets with a dash of Yellow Peril. As stated, the Samurai thing was later and mostly the whole honor thing (That only Worf gave a flying fig about). The rest of the time they were proto-Game of Thrones back stabbers with a Shakespearean flair for OTT drama.
The thing with the Vulcans is their is a biological aspect to them suppressing emotions. We know their emotions are more intense than humans. We also know they have things like Pon Far and telepathy that seem to even be absent in Romulans. Romulans who are also different enough that Crusher couldn't use their blood for a blood transfusion in "The Enemy" when they had that dying Romulan on the ship. Even if they have emotions I don't get the impression they can turn them on or suppress them in the same way a human could. I am guessing that if Vulcan did want to embrace emotions he or she would still need to do something extra to keep them check such as meditate or take some kind of drug that keeps you relaxed.
Absolutely, we could really do with a trailer to move away from this.
There's an explanation to be found somewhere, but what you wrote sounds valid enough to me.
If the episode ends with some of the crew members treating Spock with a little more respect, then its a scene worth shooting.
I'm no Canon Warrior, but the embrace of logic as a philosophy to control their strong biological emotions has been there since TOS. One is a cultural difference and one is not. So, I was confused too by a DNA change that caused them all to be suddenly controlled and logical. "All Vulcans are logical" is a stereotype (Sybok has entered the chat). "Vulcans have strong emotions that most usually control with logic-based discipline" is a fact.
Hopefully, the episode will shed light on this seeming weirdness.
Or... it's just for funsies.
Fun? FUN you say? NAY - this Star Trek thing is serious business! No fun allowed here...
I seem to recall there being some supposition behind the scenes during the first season of TOS what a full Vulcan would look like. (I have nothing to back this up. I've read a lot of stuff about Star Trek over the last 50 years.) But then we got Journey to Babel and Amok Time and we found out that they all look just like Spock.
I think the most human thing about Spock physiologically was that he had "human elements" in his blood. Otherwise he looks like Vulcans, he had the green blood, he had the super strength, he had the extra eyelids, etc. It's often difficult to see how Spock is any different than the rest of the full Vulcans. Which puts Vulcans in general in a rather poor light.
But yes, this episode is obviously hijinks. I'm hoping the hijinks ratio is down a bit this season. I love hijinks but last season had at least 30% hijinks or more depending on how you measure. And two of those were essentially "tentpole" episodes. (Lower Decks and the musical.)
I think the most human thing about Spock physiologically was that he had "human elements" in his blood. Otherwise he looks like Vulcans, he had the green blood, he had the super strength, he had the extra eyelids, etc. It's often difficult to see how Spock is any different than the rest of the full Vulcans. Which puts Vulcans in general in a rather poor light.
But yes, this episode is obviously hijinks. I'm hoping the hijinks ratio is down a bit this season. I love hijinks but last season had at least 30% hijinks or more depending on how you measure. And two of those were essentially "tentpole" episodes. (Lower Decks and the musical.)
Alexander definitely wasn't the central figure in a humorous story.
Most likely that.Or... it's just for funsies.
Very true.Fun? FUN you say? NAY - this Star Trek thing is serious business! No fun allowed here...
