I don’t think that was the point of the post.
Spoilers Strange New Worlds General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter NewHeavensNewEarth
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Hi.
TOS already had Spock lose his ability to control logic just because he was in the past. Isn't that silly?
Yes it is silly, it doesn't make sense and is the worst part of that episode.
Yeah, I admit it looks great. I'm having a hard time going two years without SNW. (They used to make MOVIES this fast.)
But, yes, our first intro to SNW in a year and it's all about the yuk yuk.
Star Trek has always played fast and loose with whether Vulcans lacking emotions is philosophical or biological. In later years they went with "It's biological: THEY'RE ACTUALLY MORE EMOTIONAL THAN HUMANS! They just have them tightly in check!" Uh huh.
Which makes Spock make less sense: If it's not the biology then what is the big deal about Spock being half human? (Other than good old fashioned Vulcan bigotry. Klingons have a better sense of IDIC.) As Spock ALWAYS claims in TOS that he is incapable of emotion because of his biology, usually followed with the rebuttal "Yes, but you're half human!"
Heck, he loses all of his memories and is retrained by computers and his mom is STILL telling him he's going to have emotions because he's half human.
Hey! Who told Spock about Sybok?!? (EDIT: Some part of my brain cross circuited and forgot that Spock actually got his original memories back and I was somehow thinking of Uhura who had her brain erased and was retrained entirely by computer - although it is generally accepted that she also got her memories back. I was wrong.) (See? I can say that.) ("Jim. Your name is Jim.") (YES! Original memories! I get it!)
But, yes, our first intro to SNW in a year and it's all about the yuk yuk.
SNW seems to be ticking the box in the "Vulcans biologically have no emotions."
Star Trek has always played fast and loose with whether Vulcans lacking emotions is philosophical or biological. In later years they went with "It's biological: THEY'RE ACTUALLY MORE EMOTIONAL THAN HUMANS! They just have them tightly in check!" Uh huh.
Which makes Spock make less sense: If it's not the biology then what is the big deal about Spock being half human? (Other than good old fashioned Vulcan bigotry. Klingons have a better sense of IDIC.) As Spock ALWAYS claims in TOS that he is incapable of emotion because of his biology, usually followed with the rebuttal "Yes, but you're half human!"
Heck, he loses all of his memories and is retrained by computers and his mom is STILL telling him he's going to have emotions because he's half human.
Hey! Who told Spock about Sybok?!? (EDIT: Some part of my brain cross circuited and forgot that Spock actually got his original memories back and I was somehow thinking of Uhura who had her brain erased and was retrained entirely by computer - although it is generally accepted that she also got her memories back. I was wrong.) (See? I can say that.) ("Jim. Your name is Jim.") (YES! Original memories! I get it!)
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I assume he was around when Spock was born. Spent time with him in his early years . Then went off to college or something, where he got "radicalized"
In the Okuda chronology Sybok seems to be one pon farr mating cycle older than Spock, born in or around 2223. My guess is that Spock and Michael knew well about Sybok and both likely even spent time around him but by the time Michael was growing up in the Sarek household and reaching adulthood Sybok had already been declared an apostate and cast out of everyday society.
Ohohoh. That got me harder than it should have. Full belt out laughter.
Congrats. You’ve turned me on.
I don't know why, but I think this is hilarious. I'm only a few minutes in.
But it occurred to me:
T'Chapel: Spock is only half Vulcan. Whereas the four of us...
T'Uhura: Are fully Vulcan.
T'La'an: Is that not logical? Spock?
No. It's FACTUAL. Right?
I personally don't think it's too weird to say that aliens from a completely different planet might act different to humans for biological reasons as well as cultural reasons. It might be a bit weird if you're considering alien races to be a sci-fi version of different human groups, but not everything has to represent our own situation perfectly. Sometimes a Vulcan is just a Vulcan.
That said, it's been shown about a million times at this point that Vulcans aren't born emotionless and it's something that they have to learn.
That said, it's been shown about a million times at this point that Vulcans aren't born emotionless and it's something that they have to learn.
It's been a hard learned (kinda learned?) lesson among humans of different appearances that not "all so and so are whatever". So imagine our trials if we ever meet another species where you have to say something like "All whateveroovanimians actually DO have tails / walk on their hands / smell like rotten eggs."
In the case of Vulcans we've gone from "This is what Vulcans ARE and that's why Spock is an outcast" to "Hey man, not ALL Vulcans".
I know it's being played for hilarious laughs but, really, don't we know that this is pretty much Spock's nightmare? I mean it's arguably (according to lore and Star Trek '09) why he joined Starfleet in the first place.
If this is all addressed in the video that I haven't watched yet then boy, is my face red.
In the case of Vulcans we've gone from "This is what Vulcans ARE and that's why Spock is an outcast" to "Hey man, not ALL Vulcans".
I know it's being played for hilarious laughs but, really, don't we know that this is pretty much Spock's nightmare? I mean it's arguably (according to lore and Star Trek '09) why he joined Starfleet in the first place.
If this is all addressed in the video that I haven't watched yet then boy, is my face red.
RIGHT? My memory ain't what it used to be. Don't give me multiple years between seasons of anything. (And get off my lawn!)
I always saw it as Vulcans assuming humans can't control our emotions. So, yeah, bigotry.
I think in V Spock says something like "I'm no longer the outcast boy you left behind."
As usual, Jesse has some good points. Strar Trek has often conflated biology with culture (often for comedy). It's also often subverted its own stereotypes.
Good catch.
Who knows? Maybe it is all a nightmare of Spock's.
I think they're taking an awful lot from a 2 minute clip.
As has been mentioned, that serum came from a hyper advanced, non-corporeal race. A race that when they turned Spock human, managed to erase whatever Vulcan discipline he had learned throughout his life. God only knows what the serum has done besides making them Vulcan at a genetic level.
Hell, this is basically the third part of a series of episodes that have been all about Spock's struggles with being part human. The first of which had Spock's Human and and Vulcan sides fighting to the death in dream form.
I'm still betting that the serum has turned our characters into some kinda physical manifestation of Spock's Vulcan side. Which would certainly explain the utter contempt they show him for being half human. It's because that's how he feels about himself.
By the end of the episode, I'm betting they'll all have learned a little more about the inner workings of Spock and the inner turmoil he puts himself through.
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In my head canon, for the first few years Michael was living on Vulcan, Sybok was only seen at the house when he visited for awkward Vulcan Thanksgiving dinner.
They have similar criticisms for the previous Spock episodes too, not just the Season 3 clip.
To me this story actually reminds me of two TNG comic book stories I read. One had Q turn all the TNG crew into Klingons, yet Worf was the only one who really knew how to control his Klingon temper, because as a real Klingon he understood what it really means to be a Klingon. Then they went and did it again only this time Q turned the entire crew into Androids. Most of the TNG characters became cold and unfeeling but unlike Data who also doesn't have feelings he actually has experience and more in debt understand of human nature than his TNG crewmates because they only had a surface level idea of what it means to be a Android.
They should've done a third one where they're all turned into Bajorans and basically nothing changes.
Please ask father to pass the plomeek salad.
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