Somehow, I don't think someone who is hyperactive and manic would fit in amongst a clandestine black ops organization which doesn't officially exist.
Augments and the thing about the Eugenics War. Why are they still a big no no?
- Thread starter urrutiap
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I’d like to think that somewhere in the roughly 800 years between DS9 and the Burn, the Federation figured out safe non-megalomaniac-creating genetic engineering, came to a consensus on the situations in which and to what extent it should be allowed, and de-banned it at least for medical uses.
Cultural protests aside, there always has to have been some low-level genegineering going on, or an interspecies hybrid like Spock couldn’t happen. (Yes, I know the Nikolai Rodzhenko thing seems to disprove that, but it doesn’t make sense — unless most of the Progenitors’ seeded offspring species were designed to be interfertile, but there’s never been any sign of that. Though admittedly it would explain the Cardassian-Bajoran “war babies” — it’s hard to believe that most of those were intentional, unless it was a specific Cardassian program for some reason.)
Cultural protests aside, there always has to have been some low-level genegineering going on, or an interspecies hybrid like Spock couldn’t happen. (Yes, I know the Nikolai Rodzhenko thing seems to disprove that, but it doesn’t make sense — unless most of the Progenitors’ seeded offspring species were designed to be interfertile, but there’s never been any sign of that. Though admittedly it would explain the Cardassian-Bajoran “war babies” — it’s hard to believe that most of those were intentional, unless it was a specific Cardassian program for some reason.)
It's already "de-banned" for medical uses in the 24th century, Bashir himself noted in the episode where he was outed as an Augment that genetic engineering is only allowed to correct "serious birth defects."
As for whether the Federation has found a "safe non-megalomaniac-creating genetic engineering" it would appear not, given the fact that spore drive navigators require minimum genetic alterations still gave 32nd century Starfleet pause about the whole concept of spore drive,
even to the point of officially abandoning further research into in in season 5.
Ah, well. I’d be curious if they’re still putting up walls against other species who use it like the Illyrians, though. It’s interesting how they’re okay with other Amazing Magical Supertech like programmable matter and fall-through-the-viewscreen-from-the-outside-and-into-your-chair, but the cultural bug continues.
I would go so far as to say something like Alton Soong's golem technology would likely be illegal, even without the synth ban.
IRL / plothole wise stuff just sort of happened. If it had been planned logically, it would have made sense that the closer the species were in terms of genetics and design, the more likelihood that an unasissted or minimally assisted procreation would happen. That being said, the more you think on it, the reasons why some species need more "help" could be more than just physical form - maybe vulcans and humans need help because of their different blood chemistry. That might be more of an impediment than Klingons having an extra willy.
In real life we have lots of species which do cross breed naturally (Felis Catus and Felis Silvestris), others that need some non-scientific manoeuvering to make things happen (Felis Catus + Leptailurus serval = Savannah cats) and then others which should by-rights be near enough to cross-breed but don't (red and grey squirrels).
Star Trek can't help but trip over itself.
Because, especially early on, any measurable consequences in universe were not considered. It was write to get it on screen.
I miss those days, they were the most creative in the history of the franchise.
If I were to write a history or genetic manipulation in Trek, I might have a movement to eliminate restrictions wind up dead in the water after the aging syndrome at Darwin Station where those ultra-augments were lethal just to be around.
Less an anti-mutant X-Men situation in that case.
Less an anti-mutant X-Men situation in that case.
so far all I got is All or None!
unless everyone can equally get what they want or no one gets it at all......
this topic is quite interesting, im just beginning my searching, its a rabbithole ive dared not lol.....
first curio- is it only genetic Augmentations that are 'bad'? as in im on S01E15 TNG 11001001 are they not augmented with tech? isnt Stammets then techinally augmented also?
Im defo pro eradicate diseases
unless everyone can equally get what they want or no one gets it at all......
this topic is quite interesting, im just beginning my searching, its a rabbithole ive dared not lol.....
first curio- is it only genetic Augmentations that are 'bad'? as in im on S01E15 TNG 11001001 are they not augmented with tech? isnt Stammets then techinally augmented also?
Im defo pro eradicate diseases
Yes, it's genetic modification that's frowned upon, and even that is allowed to correct "serious birth defects." But no, there doesn't seem to be any taboos against technical augmentation, meaning the Bynars weren't violating any laws. At least not any augmentation laws, I'm sure the fact they basically hijacked a starship in that episode is considered illegal.
Yes, and that is brought up frequently throughout Disco.
thanxxx..... ive a somewhat scattered brain and im piecing ALL the bits together....
QUERY! lol
I can see Augments still being a "no-no" because Joe Manchin's descendants keep messing things up by blocking any reform. They love to take advantage of that "swing" vote.
The Manchinites.
I was re-watching Wrath of Khan and maybe it speaks to how slow I am in picking this up, but after 30 years of watching the movie it finally struck me how the film speaks on this particular subject and how Khan, and the entire idea of a genetically engineered "superior intellect," is fundamentally flawed.
Throughout the movie Kirk references "A Tale of Two Cities" where Khan quotes liberally from "Moby Dick." It finally struck me that while Khan associates Kirk and the Enterprise with the White Wale from "Moby Dick," his arrogance leads him to believe that his superior abilities will allow him to escape Captain Ahab's fate.
Khan is fully aware of how "Moby Dick" ends, the themes of the story, and their meanings. However, even as smart as he is, the hubris of his abilities blinds him to the dangers of the path, and he deludes himself into believing that he won't suffer the same end as Ahab.
It's indicative of the problem the augments have always had in every iteration in which they've existed, and is probably the reason they always lose to normal humans.
Throughout the movie Kirk references "A Tale of Two Cities" where Khan quotes liberally from "Moby Dick." It finally struck me that while Khan associates Kirk and the Enterprise with the White Wale from "Moby Dick," his arrogance leads him to believe that his superior abilities will allow him to escape Captain Ahab's fate.
Khan is fully aware of how "Moby Dick" ends, the themes of the story, and their meanings. However, even as smart as he is, the hubris of his abilities blinds him to the dangers of the path, and he deludes himself into believing that he won't suffer the same end as Ahab.
It's indicative of the problem the augments have always had in every iteration in which they've existed, and is probably the reason they always lose to normal humans.
But Bashir and anyone else from Star Trek Strange New Worlds, Deep Space Nine and onward they are not Khan.
the stupid Federation isn't being fair where they judge people like Bashir etc thinking they're going to be the next Khan. Starfleet and.or the Federation just needs to back the heck off
Starfleet/the Federation says they're not racists or whatever. Please. They're frikking racist/predjucie still
Discovery and everything before and during the PIcad show, everyone still is and have been racist towards aliens and androids and they're still griping about the rules of augments yada yada thinking they're going to turn out like Khan.
Discovery and everything before and during the PIcad show, everyone still is and have been racist towards aliens and androids and they're still griping about the rules of augments yada yada thinking they're going to turn out like Khan.
How many examples do they need going bad to justify their worry?
its none of their damn businesss. Khan died a long time ago. they shouldn't have to frikkin worry about good people like Bashir or anyone else.
Lal was doing just fine before that jerkwad tried to take her away to be "studied" before she had an emotional breakdown that caused her to malfunction and to die or whatever
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