Spoilers AHSOKA series [Spoiler Discussion]

[JD]

Again casual viewer. I've had Disney+ since Black Friday, and only got around to watching it now. If Star Trek has to be accessible to the casual viewer, Star Wars with its higher budget and broader intended audience should at least be held to the same standard.

So why even bother watching Ahsoka? It sounds like you went in aware it was a follow up to two shows you hadn't seen, so you had to know there was a good chance you going to be lost. I'm not trying to be rude or snotty, I'm just honestly curious.

Wow. That's a ton of homework, especially for something that is not like for like with a different intended target audience.

The animated series really aren't that far off from the what we're getting from the live action stuff, so if you enjoy that you'll probably enjoy the animated shows too. Even if you're just a casual fan, I'd recommend giving them a go, they had a few rough points over the years, but when they were at their best, they were some of the absolute best Star Wars content out there.
And just to warn you, it sounds like there's a chance Season 2 might go even deeper into some of the more obscure stuff introduced in The Clone Wars.

 

[James Cole]

So why even bother watching Ahsoka? It sounds like you went in aware it was a follow up to two shows you hadn't seen, so you had to know there was a good chance you going to be lost. I'm not trying to be rude or snotty, I'm just honestly curious.

I thought it'd be loosely connected, not deeply connected, and that there'd be the usual "as you know, the Dominion War was bad" type introductory exposition.

Did REBELS somehow get RICK AND MORTY level ratings back when it was airing?

 

[JD]

All I know about the Rebels ratings is they were good enough for it to last 4 seasons.

 

[Reverend]

Was it wise to invest circa $13 million per episode on something with such limited appeal, especially considering the arc ties in with the whole Mandoverse plan?

Well they gave the guy a movie, a second season, and incorporated both of the star characters in the parks (aka historically their most lucrative revenue source), so . . . yes? I mean The Mouse seem to think so at least, and that little rodent is notoriously profit motivated.

Otherwise just make a like for like YA animation continuation instead of crossing formats. At the very least, have more live action flashbacks or show previously on animated segments so people can catch up.

Modern Star Wars has already proven that medium is no barrier to story. We've already had camera actors portray their characters in animation and visa versa. We've have literary characters appearing on screen. Star Wars doesn't segregate it's characters; it's all one story. 'Ahsoka' didn't start that, George Lucas did when he created Clone Wars.

I'm just surprised no one higher up in the production food chain pushed back to say cut half the memberberries and make it more accessible to the broader Star Wars audience.

...And the moment I stopped taking your arguments even vaguely seriously, is when you decided to cite an episode of South Park, of all things.

Indeed, it's not even an accurate assertion since the show barely referenced anything from Rebels directly other than the final episode (aka: the core conflict from which the whole plot launched.) What did show up was there for a story reason and nothing more. Indeed, most of the drama orbited around the souring of Sabine and Ahsoka student/Master relationship . . . a thing that happened entirely off-screen between shows because in 'Rebels', those two did not so much as exchange a single line of dialogue! That whole relationship dynamic is entirely new! "Memberberries", my arse! Hell, we didn't even get to see Zeb!

 

[Ithekro]

The "memberberries" would basically be Episode 5 with all the Clones Wars flashbacks and Thrawn existing (and that would go back to the 1991 novel Heir to the Empire). And the Clone Wars flashbacks were not about the flashbacks, they were about seeing Hayden Christensen back as Anakin Skywalker standing next to Ahsoka. And those only touched the Clone Wars film (barely discernable), The Ryloth Arc, the Siege of Mandalore Arc, and Revenge of the Sith.

 

[Set Harth]

The Dathomir/Nightsisters stuff was developed in the cartoons.
You need to have seen TCW's Mortis arc to have any idea what this means.
The place Ahsoka finds herself in Ahsoka episode 5, the "World Between Worlds", was featured in the final season of Rebels.
And this owl-creature, Morai, appeared in certain Rebels episodes ( as well as an easter-egg cameo in Ahsoka's episode of The Mandalorian ).

 

[Reverend]

The "memberberries" would basically be Episode 5 with all the Clones Wars flashbacks and Thrawn existing (and that would go back to the 1991 novel Heir to the Empire). And the Clone Wars flashbacks were not about the flashbacks, they were about seeing Hayden Christensen back as Anakin Skywalker standing next to Ahsoka. And those only touched the Clone Wars film (barely discernable), The Ryloth Arc, the Siege of Mandalore Arc, and Revenge of the Sith.

Even then it was all hardly just references for reference sake; they were all intrinsic to the story being told. Indeed, probably necessary context for those mostly just familiar to the movies to visually connect the dots between old and new characters.

Ahsoka was a vanity project. Not meant as accessible.

Disagree on both counts.
Generally speaking a vanity project is something done 1) purely for the creator to self-aggrandise their talents (that's the "vanity" part), and 2) fall flat and utterly fail in the process. It's also sometimes applied to projects paid for out of the creators own pocket, which obviously doesn't apply here,
As for accessibility; that's not a binary state, but a gradient depending on how invested a given audience member is in the relevant materials, or how open minded they are about approaching something new.

The word you're looking for is "niche". Meant to appeal to a specific group of people . . . which pretty much describes just about any artistic endeavour to one degree or another, safe for the most common denominator pandering trash (see: basically any reality TV show.)
Of course even a niche group within a fanbase as gargantuan as Star Wars is still a non-trivial audience, and thus are worth appealing to.

 

[fireproof78]

The word you're looking for is "niche". Meant to appeal to a specific group of people

Thank you.

 

[Tuskin38]

You need to have seen TCW's Mortis arc to have any idea what this means.

You'll recognize it, but it's not needed to understand that it's just a big statue is pointing to something important.

 

[Ithekro]

Those are the times of things that people can understand the meaning of without needing the context. The context would spark a reaction from fans that know what it is, but the general meaning is provided by the show itself.
Witches, okay, so expect witchcraft.
Giant statues, okay, old civilization of some kind. Probably something Force related.
World Between Worlds , "afterlife/purgatory" or near-death experience.
Bird. Interesting, Symbol of Hope? (That one can be glossed over pretty easily)

 

[fireproof78]

Those are the times of things that people can understand the meaning of without needing the context. The context would spark a reaction from fans that know what it is, but the general meaning is provided by the show itself.
Witches, okay, so expect witchcraft.
Giant statues, okay, old civilization of some kind. Probably something Force related.
World Between Worlds , "afterlife/purgatory" or near-death experience.
Bird. Interesting, Symbol of Hope? (That one can be glossed over pretty easily)

Yup. Easy to follow and make sense of without the details, which (guess what?) I didn't know most of them. Didn't watch the end of Rebels, only the beginning. Barely watched Clone Wars, so only passingly aware of Ahsoka as a character from there and Rebels. I know more about her from Mandalorian, then watched the end of Clone Wars. So, she's clearly not over Anakin's fall and that impacts her view so she gets stuck.

She's the Sisko of Star Wars.

 

[Turtletrekker]

You'll recognize it, but it's not needed to understand that it's just a big statue is pointing to something important.

And everything you need to know about the statues will be explained in season 2.

 

[Set Harth]

I didn't know most of them. Didn't watch the end of Rebels, only the beginning. Barely watched Clone Wars, so only passingly aware of Ahsoka as a character from there and Rebels.

And she doesn't even show up on screen until the end of the last episode of season 1 of Rebels.

 

[Reverend]

Bird. Interesting, Symbol of Hope? (That one can be glossed over pretty easily)

Well, if we want to look at it in terms of pure symbolism; in most cultures owls surprisingly consistently symbolise wisdom, knowledge, mystery, vigilance, and prophesy. Sometimes also as messengers, guides, the spirits of women, and heralds of death. This seems to hold true even across cultures that developed very separately.
Speaking of which, since the show was clearly drawing on a lot of Celtic and Norse elements; in Celtic folklore Owls bestow insight into the true intentions of others (which incidentally, was Ahsoka's innate force talent) are often guides though the underworld (sounds familiar), and is seen as an aspect of The Crone (Cailleach, The Hag, Queen of Winter, etc.)
There's also a lot of folklore about them (along with the likes of cats and ravens) being familiars of witches, wizards and the like, though that's mostly probably one of those early Christian anti-Pagan propaganda things. Still, this one does seem to hang around with a space wizard a lot . . .

So yeah; without having to see a single episode of Clone Wars or Rebels, anyone with even a vague grasp of cultural symbolism should have plenty to go on to discern the significance of an owl suddenly showing up on a mystical witch planet, at the end of one journey and the beginning of another.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Anakin's role in the series was phenomenal. The entire flashback episode was.

The series was not above criticism, some serious, but overall I enjoyed it immensely, every single episode, and I consider it a success. I look forward to S2.

 

[Tuskin38]

I just hope season 2 isn't written solely by Filoni. Get more minds in there.

Mando wasn't solely written by Jon (though like 90% the episodes were)

 

[Relayer1]

I hated Clone Wars, bailed on Rebels after a season and a half. No intention to revisit either at any point.

I loved Ahsoka. I knew she was Anakin's Padawan, I knew who Sabine and Ezra were, I followed it just fine. As did Mrs Relayer who had seen none of the animations whatsoever.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I just hope season 2 isn't written solely by Filoni. Get more minds in there.

Mando wasn't solely written by Jon (though like 90% the episodes were)

I'm not saying that I disagree with you, but Ahsoka is a character that Filoni is very protective of. That, and the story being told in season 2, this specific story being told in season 2, is something that he has arguably been building up to ever since the Mortis arc in Clone Wars.

 

[kirk55555]

Its weird because I never would have guessed that Filoni had anything to do with Ahsoka the TV show if he wasn't credited, because Ahsoka herself is so tremendously out of character, in that she has no character at all. I don't know how she went from even Rebels Ahsoka to basically a Lucas style emotionless prequel era Jedi, but it really did ruin the show for me. I'm not being hyperbolic either, if you told me that Lucas came back specifically to write Ahsoka's dialog/scenes I'd believe it, she's just as half asleep in her show as most Jedi were in the prequel films. Its really jarring because I'm more used to the TCW cartoon version of Prequel jedi that were at the very least more lively, so going back to jedi in the Lucas live action style was jarring, and just as bad as it was in the actual prequel movies. With Ahsoka I felt like I was watching the horrifying fusion of Rebels and Attack of the Clones, two bad tastes that don't work together at all.

I honestly don't think the show is salvageable as long as Filoni is around, but hopefully season 2 learns from at least a few of its mistakes. At bare minimum I hope that thrawn actually does something, and that the pace increases somewhat from the glacial pace of the first season.

Also, I just have to say that even reading the word "Mortis" pisses me off. I really hope that stuff isn't making its way into live action, although it will be funny seeing the few casual SW fans that bothered to get through Ahsoka season 1 completely jump ship if the show tries to bring up that literal gods control the force (seriously, midichlorians are nowhere near as stupid as the literal Force gods). Its probably not a coincidence that the most popular modern SW projects (like The Mandalorian) don't require people to have watched the cartoons, but Filoni will just keep going like he expects people to watch all the the stuff he's made, when probably 90% of the general audience haven't even seen a single episode of TCW or Rebels.

 

[fireproof78]

Also, I just have to say that even reading the word "Mortis" pisses me off. I really hope that stuff isn't making its way into live action, although it will be funny seeing the few casual SW fans that bothered to get through Ahsoka season 1 completely jump ship if the show tries to bring up that literal gods control the force (seriously, midichlorians are nowhere near as stupid as the literal Force gods).

Despite my disinterest in Clone Wars, I thoroughly enjoyed the Mortis episodes and when I read about Force gods I had to watch the episodes.

So, yeah, it's going to take more than a supposedly "out of character" Ahsoka (never mind people changing due trauma) and Force gods to make me disinterested in this show.