Strange New Worlds renewed for a fourth season

[Daedalus]

TOS, TOS-derived movies, and TNG era.

I don't really see much of a difference between the last two, unless it's just in terms of attitudes? Apart from glugging blood wine and Gowron's googly eyes, all I've seen is a century of societal change rather than any inherent contradiction. Although, movie-era Klingons don't seem to use Batleths, yet they're supposed to be an ancient tradition.

 

[Mudd]

Okay.

Really, the TOS-derived movies are off in a universe all their own. At least there are a few stylistic touches shared by TOS and TNG. A few.

Trek has been started and restarted five times now: the original, the movies with the TOS cast, the Roddenberry/Berman shows of the 80s and 90s, the Abrams movies, and now the Paramount+ streaming shows. Each of those stands in some contradiction to the others.

 

[Tiran O'Saurus]

Primarily, they contradict themselves. TOS couldn't remember what organization the heroes worked for or what species Spock was. The movies have a bizarre false start in TMP where Kirk gets the Enterprise, but then next movie he's back to being an admiral longing for his ship. TNG got very contradictory over when Data was created, the Hansons left looking for the Borg before anyone had ever met one, First Contact showed the titular First Contact as almost twenty years before Q showed Earth as a total apocalyptic wasteland, and I think the continuity problems of Enterprise were belabored at length when it came out, just conveniently ignored now to make errors seem UNPRECEDENTED!!!

 

[fireproof78]

I don't really see much of a difference between the last two, unless it's just in terms of attitudes? Apart from glugging blood wine and Gowron's googly eyes, all I've seen is a century of societal change rather than any inherent contradiction. Although, movie-era Klingons don't seem to use Batleths, yet they're supposed to be an ancient tradition.

The motion picture Klingons are way different and even comics at the time reflected that style. They look downright bizarre.

 

[Daedalus]

The motion picture Klingons are way different and even comics at the time reflected that style. They look downright bizarre.

Yeah, but they carried the uniform through to late 90's at least. TMP Klingons just had space botox.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, but they carried the uniform through to late 90's at least. TMP Klingons just had space botox.

The uniform doesn't make up for the extremely bizarre make up.

 

[The Wormhole]

TOS couldn't remember what organization the heroes worked for or what species Spock was.

Or even what century it took place in.

 

[Daedalus]

The uniform doesn't make up for the extremely bizarre make up.

God no, but the seeds of what would become the most familiar type of Klingon were there.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The motion picture Klingons are way different and even comics at the time reflected that style. They look downright bizarre.

Very true. A little more brutal looking than what came before and after. I wonder if Roddenberry has stayed in charge if this version would have been the "standard"? I also wonder if Fuller told his make up team "something like this" when redesigning the Klingons

After Roddenberry the Klingons have a "cleaner" look, climaxing with Chang in TUC. On the small screen the Klingon look goes for the Space Biker look with wild hair and elaborate ridges, bringing back the teeth and nose pieces.

Yeah, but they carried the uniform through to late 90's at least. TMP Klingons just had space botox.

Probably for the same reason they used the TWOK uniforms in flashbacks,

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

To use Mario as an example, why isn't he still 8 bit and 2D? Why does he have all these weird powers and suits and things? Mario from the 80s isn't Mario from today. In fact, Mario 2 in the United States isn't even technically supposed to be a Mario game.

38 years of evolution in Mario's design. Star Trek wishes it had the visual consistency of the Super Mario franchise.

Well, I wish that it did anyway.

 

[fireproof78]

38 years of evolution in Mario's design. Star Trek wishes it had the visual consistency of the Super Mario franchise.

Well, I wish that it did anyway.

And he looks the same in the games? Even in the 80s?

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

And he looks the same in the games? Even in the 80s?

They get better at representing the character on the box as technology improves, but once you hit 1988 the sprite is obviously the Mario we know. Just like how Star Trek settled on an ideal image of the Klingons by around Star Trek III.

 

[Noname Given]

Because it's art. Not science.


I mean, yes and no. TOS might be in continuity but then ignores other things within the shows details. So, if the set dressing and uniforms are that important then I could see it standing out, and it's why TMP stands out. To your point above, it changes things for no reason except because.

But, to me, TOS is very much its own thing. It operates in a bigger galaxy, with a lot more strange aliens and a different warp scale. TNG paid lip service to it but really just acknowledged it for brief winks to the audience. It upends some of TOS' views for its own stories. TMP does the same thing, so treating it as its own thing, with the UESPA, and such, sits a lot better than some of the later shows.

The reason comes back to an idea that I think many Trek fans disagree with and that is Trek is an art, not a historical piece. So, the change comes from artists and their desires to be creative, even within an established property. Even Star Wars went far afield of this with the Prequels, because it's meant to be as much an expression of the designers ideas as it is to work within the universe.

Now, I come at this because I have several friends who are artists and like to adjust things because they can. They see things differently than I do. Do I always agree? No, not at all. But, I can accept a change because of it because it is meant as an art.

TOS was often described as a telling and dramatization of Kirk's logs after the fact (which explains in some episodes we have a Captain's Log VO of stuff that's occurring AS it's happening on the screen in front of the audience.)

 

[evilchumlee]

I also wonder if Fuller told his make up team "something like this" when redesigning the Klingons

They definitely used the TMP sketch as inspiration for the Klingon uniforms in DSC. It's up in the air how much Fuller actually had to do with it.

That's one thing I think DSC did well. The Klingon wardrobes look fantastic.

After Roddenberry the Klingons have a "cleaner" look, climaxing with Chang in TUC. On the small screen the Klingon look goes for the Space Biker look with wild hair and elaborate ridges, bringing back the teeth and nose pieces.

Again it's all subjective, but I can absolutely fit TMP Klingon Commander in with TNG Klingons. He looks different but not different enough that I can't reconcile him as the same race.

I have to say though, it's odd that I never noticed the bald one with the ridge going all the way back on his head. Crazy how details can still pop in things you're so familiar with.

The TMP Klingons tend to be how I can at all justify the existence of the DSC Klingons with anything else. They do look just different enough that I can fudge them in as being something of a missing link.

On a wild conjecture side, it might be a fun lore note to establish the Klingons... being an interstellar empire... may also have been interbreeding with client races for centuries. Prior to DSC airing, I was really hoping the "Klingons" were going to be sort of like, ancient off-shoot Klingon race or something.

i have seen some comics and the like that have placed all of the Klingon "types" existing together at the same time and I don't hate it. That's also a potential way for me to get me to hate them less... put other Klingons in there too.

 

[fireproof78]

Just like how Star Trek settled on an ideal image of the Klingons by around Star Trek III.

Until TUC.

On a wild conjecture side, it might be a fun lore note to establish the Klingons... being an interstellar empire... may also have been interbreeding with client races for centuries. Prior to DSC airing, I was really hoping the "Klingons" were going to be sort of like, ancient off-shoot Klingon race or something.

One would hope so.

 

[Tuskin38]

It's up in the air how much Fuller actually had to do with it.

We know he told the ships designers to ignore previous Klingon designs, or at least the designers have claimed that.

 

[Beyerstein]

If Kurtzman's contract is just through 2026 then maybe SNW season 4 and SFA season 1 will be the end of it all

 

[The Wormhole]

If Kurtzman's contract is just through 2026 then maybe SNW season 4 and SFA season 1 will be the end of it all

Kurtzman won't be leaving in 2026.

 

[Mudd]

If Kurtzman's contract is just through 2026 then maybe SNW season 4 and SFA season 1 will be the end of it all

It'll be renewed.

 

[evilchumlee]

We know he told the ships designers to ignore previous Klingon designs, or at least the designers have claimed that.

Fuller's influence has often been referred to as "notes written on a napkin" which mostly seem to boil down to "make Star Trek, but make sure it doesn't look like Star Trek". He seems to have given them the basic outline of the show, the idea to make it focused on Burnham, he came up with "Michael" as her name, there were some vague references to a "Klingon Game of Thrones", and he wanted all the ships to be flat for some reason.

The "25% different" thing does seem to be true for the Enterprise, but probably not due to any kind of licensing or anything like that. Eaves' had implied he was told to "make it at least 25% different" as a creative decision, and it also seems like he kind of got in trouble for saying it.