Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 5x07 - "Erigah"

[evilchumlee]

I do, because Star Trek has become incredibly stale.

I disagree. I think Trek is still plenty fresh, and in all honesty i'd rather they just retire the IP altogether than compromise on its core principles.

 

[BillJ]

I disagree. I think Trek is still plenty fresh, and in all honesty i'd rather they just retire the IP altogether than compromise on its core principles.

Should anti-transhumanism be a core principle of a science fiction series? I know it is an easy bogeyman for some writers, but I'd rather see them tackle the difficult. How do you marry people and technology is an incredibly interesting angle. Especially for a crew that would be from a time where such things were verboten.

 

[Nerys Myk]

"Growth" isn't necessarily defined the same for everyone and not all "change" is for the better.

Anti-transhumanism has been a pillar of Star Trek. I don't think that's anything that needs to or should be changed. It's absolute ingrained into the psyche of Star Trek. It's part of what it is.

Has it? Transhumanism is the merging of tech with humans, right? Okay the Borg are bad. But we have Geordi, Detmer and the Bynar too. Maybe others I've forgotten. It can play either way. Because conflict, drama.

 

[Fateor]

I've already said this in different discussions, but the problem with time-travel stories is that no matter where you go, the setting needs to be relatable for the audience. Sure, there might be a few story ideas in future starships accidentally shorting out Discovery's entire power grid with a single sensor sweep, Zora crashing when she tries to calculate the Stardate, the ship being casually blasted out of the sky with a 32nd century handgun, future people treating our heroes as anthropological curiosities or museum pieces... for a few individual episodes. They would wear themselves thin extremely quickly if there's nothing familiar for the audience to latch onto. Should we really expect stories like these to last three full seasons complete with arcs? Who would the audience even root for?

So pull a reverse Voyager.

Instead of being the big fish running around an new area that's effectively alien trying to uphold current Federation values. Have the Discovery be the little fish running around an old area that has changed so much it's become effectively alien trying to uphold past Federation values.

There are a limitless number of stories in that, especially given each time they ran into the current Federation it could be the equivalent of dealing with the Iconians or Voth.

 

[Yistaan]

I disagree. I think Trek is still plenty fresh, and in all honesty i'd rather they just retire the IP altogether than compromise on its core principles.

Did Trek ever have core principles? Gene Roddenberry himself was already using Trek as an advertisement for his IDIC pins in one episode so blatantly that even Nimoy and Shatner, neither of who were exactly slavishly devoted to the "principles" of what was already a show on the verge of cancellation, revolted.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Did Trek ever have core principles? Gene Roddenberry himself was already using Trek as an advertisement for his IDIC pins in one episode so blatantly that even Nimoy and Shatner, neither of who were exactly slavishly devoted to the "principles" of what was already a show on the verge of cancellation, revolted.

Sure it did and does. Gene making a buck or Bill and Leonard moving on (because they're working actors) doesn't negate that.

 

[cultcross]

Christ on a cracker, this thread.

I'm actually a writer/editor by profession and have been for quite some time and I know a good story when I see it. This (season of Discovery) is not a good story. What I know about story telling, these people on the writing staff don't know, especially when it comes to science fiction in general and Trek in particular.

And if I want to take the piss out on Trek's writers, i'm gonna do it. So you can just go pound sand for all I care, Miss Enlightened One.

Bye, Felicia. To Coventry with you.

Infraction for flaming, Reply ban to the thread.

It is not necessary for the TNZ crowd to pile on every time someone's being an arse in the upstairs forums. I've already asked about this in the TNZ thread before, as have other moderators, and the forum rules apply up here.

You must also be an avid reader. Maybe try this book.
View attachment 39676

Infraction for flaming

“I am a writer, so you must listen to me!!!”, lots of “writers” like you have been here over the years. We chew them up and spit them out.

Infraction for trolling

Infraction for trolling

So..... you're a nobody who has written nothing that anybody has actually read. Yet, you hold yourself as a superior to those who actually are professional writers?

Infraction for flaming.

Comments to PM.

 

[Commander Troi]

That's just lazy. Nobody said "tech advances on it's own", that's just silly. There is always a need or opportunity for any kind of tech advance to occur when you have a federation of thousands of planets in it. They use phasers and tricorders because the writers of Discovery are too lazy to think of anything else that supplants the familiar Trek tech we know.

I think they're more afraid of being told "that's not Star Trek!"

You will in November. I've been working on this project for about six years now. I'm quite anxious to get it released as it'll probably be my last project.

Congratulations in advance.

 

[fireproof78]

I think they're more afraid of being told "that's not Star Trek!"

Absolutely this. The reaction to Season 1 and 2, as well as all of the behind the scenes drama, created a higher sensitivity to that accusation. There is no place were it gets felt more viscerally than to be told, "This sucks! You don't respect Star Trek!"

So, yeah, they're not going to change too much because then it gets slapped around for the trouble. Why try?

I've already said this in different discussions, but the problem with time-travel stories is that no matter where you go, the setting needs to be relatable for the audience. Sure, there might be a few story ideas in future starships accidentally shorting out Discovery's entire power grid with a single sensor sweep, Zora crashing when she tries to calculate the Stardate, the ship being casually blasted out of the sky with a 32nd century handgun, future people treating our heroes as anthropological curiosities or museum pieces... for a few individual episodes. They would wear themselves thin extremely quickly if there's nothing familiar for the audience to latch onto. Should we really expect stories like these to last three full seasons complete with arcs? Who would the audience even root for?

Exactly. People want it to be "so alien we can't recognize it" which would then appeal to a very tiny niche of any already niche property. This is, first and foremost, a human story. If that is unacceptable then this series probably won't work.

But, sure, let's sideline our heroes and treat them as Relics. I'm sure that will go over well.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I think what really bothers me about the Breen is that they are virtually indistinguishable from Klingons in terms of their militaristic, non-negotiating, world-conquering ways.

Isn't that true with any "War Mongering - Conquest Driven" species/faction created in fiction?

Every "Big Bad" seems to want to Conquer the Multi-Verse/Universe/Galaxy/World/etc.

 

[evilchumlee]

Should anti-transhumanism be a core principle of a science fiction series? I know it is an easy bogeyman for some writers, but I'd rather see them tackle the difficult. How do you marry people and technology is an incredibly interesting angle. Especially for a crew that would be from a time where such things were verboten.

They DO that, though, as noted. We do have some characters who have cybernetics.

I don't consider that "transhuman", it's just technology being used to correct a problem. I do think that cybernetics can be an interesting story. Trek does it on several occasions. The Borg are a thing.

I don't think think that topic really needs to bleed into Trek proper though. It's been well established they have no interest in enhancing humans, and I like that. It's more unique. It can be an interesting story... but... tell the story somewhere else.

 

[fireproof78]

Isn't that true with any "War Mongering - Conquest Driven" species/faction created in fiction?

Every "Big Bad" seems to want to Conquer the Multi-Verse/Universe/Galaxy/World/etc.

That's the nature of power. You always want more. You fear losing it, you fear others taking a "piece of the pie" because its your pie. I don't want you to have a piece. In fact, I also want to ensure you have no opportunity to take any of my pie and will continue to protect power to do so.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I don't really want to watch Star Trek for its take on a technologically regressed post-apocalyptic world.

The DISCO Writing staff can only seem to do "Post-Apocalyptic" World.
That's why the 32nd century that we get is what it is.

 

[Lord Garth]

The DISCO Writing staff can only seem to do "Post-Apocalyptic" World.
That's why the 32nd century that we get is what it is.

If that's "post-apocalyptic", it's the best post-apocalyptical world I've ever seen. I'll take living in Future Disco over living in Mad Max.

 

[fireproof78]

If that's "post-apocalyptic", it's the best post-apocalyptical world I've ever seen. I'll take living in Future Disco over living in Mad Max.

Or Fallout.

Or anything with zombies. Yeah, Discovery has got it pretty good, I'd say.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Transwarp tunnels are shown to be permanent once they are created and degrade over time and become dangerous to use.

They became dangerous because of all the ships that exploded in the TransWarp Tunnel due to "The Burn" and became a giant debris field in a tiny tunnel. So navigation is a PitA because you're playing "Dodge the Debris".

They literally showed it when Book's Ship (I wish they would've finally gave it a real name), had to do that to catch up to Discovery.

 

[SJGardner]

Post-apocalyptic? Nah, post-Roman-collapse, maybe. With Discovery standing in for the Renaissance and the rediscovery of classical antiquity.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Benamite crystals could be artificially synthesized, the limiting factor in their creation was time, not material scarcity.

Very True, the Benamite version was MUCH faster than the Non-Benamite version of Quantum Slip-Stream.

You would need many worlds to work together to mass produce Benamite over time, it would become a "Hot Commodity" on the FTL market due to how fast it is, and how little energy you would be spending to get to your destination.

And also, the original slipstream drive didn't even require Benamite.

The Original version of Quantum SlipStream did damage to your SIF (Structural Integrity Field) over time, so you're time limited by how fast you go and how strong your SIF fields are, you have to exit QSS before the SIF collapases and crushes your ship like a submarine in ultra deep waters due to pressure.

It's quite innovative as a form of "FTL Drive Limitations".

 

[fireproof78]

So navigation is a PitA because you're playing "Dodge the Debris".

People playing "Asteroids" suddenly makes so much sense!

Post-apocalyptic? Nah, post-Roman-collapse, maybe. With Discovery standing in for the Renaissance and the rediscovery of classical antiquity.

Yes, of course. Technology stagnates, power shifts to local polities, and people are more insular.

The horror.

 

[cooleddie74]

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