Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 5x07 - "Erigah"

[fireproof78]

Out of a sense of loyalty, mostly. That and I have Paramount + for one more month and when Discovery is done, that's it for a while.

I am still forever grateful to my dad who watched a couple of episodes of TNG, and said, "It's ok to not watch it."

I moved on from so many shows that I don't find enjoyable.

 

[Mr Awe]

I'm not seeing too many hate watchers in this thread. Maybe a couple. But most opinions for this episode seem to range from meh to awesome. Mine was more on the meh side. Haven't seen much hate. And most opinions were well explained.

So, I'm taking them as mostly honest differences of opinion. After all, how much you enjoy a TV episode is entirely a subjective matter and there is no right or wrong answer.

 

[Citiprime]

And once again I'm here asking so many questions. Mainly, why do people watch a show they find dumb?

Ummm because even if we find it bad, since it's still Star Trek and since the powers that be insist it's all in the prime timeline, it technically can affect the narrative of the other shows and future shows.

Sort of like even the people who find The Phantom Menace or Rise of Skywalker to be shit can't ignore it since it's canon to Star Wars, even if they don't like how it affects the backstory of Anakin or where it goes with Luke's story.

Plus, I think there's a difference between trolling and criticism. People pointing out plot holes, bad characterization, and poor story choices should be something that can be discussed on a discussion board. Having an opinion about how something should/could have been done better, if you're a fan of the underlying concept, is not hatewatching.

I think a lot of people want to like this show, but are continually disappointed with how it goes about the way it chooses to expound on its concepts. And that's not exactly hatewatching.

 

[fireproof78]

Ummm because even if we find it bad, since it's still Star Trek and since the powers that be insist it's all in the prime timeline, it technically can affect the narrative of the other shows and future shows.

It really can't. I stopped watching The Next Generation and followed Deep Space Nine fine.

Sort of like even the people who find The Phantom Menace or Rise of Skywalker to be shit can't ignore it since it's canon to Star Wars, even if they don't like how it affects the backstory of Anakin or where it goes with Luke's story.

The Phantom what?

Completely ignored.

I think a lot of people want to like this show, but are continually disappointed with how it goes about the way it chooses to expound on its concepts. And that's not exactly hatewatching.

No one said it was. I just have this weird thing of people watching things they (check notes) actually like, rather than constantly courting disappointment. Yes, I'm strange. I stop watching things I'm disappointed in.

I'm not seeing too many hate watchers in this thread. Maybe a couple. But most opinions for this episode seem to range from meh to awesome. Mine was more on the meh side. Haven't seen much hate. And most opinions were well explained.

So, I'm taking them as mostly honest differences of opinion. After all, how much you enjoy a TV episode is entirely a subjective matter and there is no right or wrong answer.

No one said hatewatching.

 

[Lord Garth]

Plus, I think there's a difference between trolling and criticism.

Definitely. One of the benefits of constructive criticism is that makes me think about my own position more. Another benefit is shedding light on something I hadn't considered.

EDITED TO ADD: Earlier, I just wanted to weigh in on the hate-watching angle one last time because Discovery Season 5 potentially really is the last time I'll be able to do so, in relation to Star Trek that I'm a fan of. Except for Section 31, none of what's on the horizon excites me. So, while my opinion of hate-watchers in general won't change, it's going to hit differently after this, because I won't have a dog in the fight anymore. It's not going to be the same.

 

[Yistaan]

can't ignore it since it's canon to Star Wars, even if they don't like how it affects the backstory of Anakin or where it goes with Luke's story.

Star Wars literally has an entire alternate continuity that was wiped out after the Disney buyout that continues Luke's story in a different way. It's only considered non-canon because corporate owners say so, but fans should probably wonder why their connection to a fictional universe is defined on what a corporation says rather than how they define their relationship to the fictional universe (and I admit I'm guilty of this too, I can't see Legends the same way anymore because some corporation declared it non-canon even though I prefer it to the Disney stuff, so I'll admit there's a preaching what I have difficulty practicing element in this paragraph I just wrote).

Star Trek does have tie-ins but they are all fragmented and don't provide a cohesive alternate universe to the new works the way Star Wars does.

 

[Mr Awe]

No one said hatewatching.

It was mentioned several times.

And there was a whole conversation about people enjoying being miserable. I'm not seeing that either.

My primary point was that most of the reviews and comments in this thread don't seem to be from people who love to be miserable or whatever. There's a whole range of opinions. And the less favorable ones usually had honest critiques and issues. That's more constructive than hate watching or loving the certainty of being miserable or whatever!

 

[fireproof78]

My primary point was that most of the reviews and comments in this thread don't seem to be from people who love to be miserable or whatever. There's a whole range of opinions. And the less favorable ones usually had honest critiques and issues. That's more constructive than hate watching or loving the certainty of being miserable or whatever!

To each their own. Disappointment/lack of enjoyment/boredom strikes me as miserable.

Which is different from hate watching.

I think there are better things to do with one's time. Mileage, etc.

 

[Fateor]

So...Star Trek.

Not really, in past Trek's there would have at least been believable reasons behind things happening.

Take this episode.

There was no reason for Starfleet Headquarters to sit around waiting for the Breen Dreadnaught to show up instead of just Warping away. Instead they just didn't warp away, because the writers said they didn't warp away.

 

[Mr Awe]

To each their own. Disappointment/lack of enjoyment/boredom strikes me as miserable.

Which is different from hate watching.

I think there are better things to do with one's time. Mileage, etc.

That's missing the point. But it's best to not drag it out. Cheers!

 

[NCC-73515]

Didn't like this episode much because it's really hard to care about the Breen. The best I can say is that Moll and L'ak are more interesting than Changeling and Borg Queen in Picard, but that's such a low bar.

They needed better villains or no villains at all.

Vadic was more interesting than L'rell, Voq, Control, Osyraa, Tarka, Moll and L'ak combined

Plus, I think there's a difference between trolling and criticism. People pointing out plot holes, bad characterization, and poor story choices should be something that can be discussed on a discussion board. Having an opinion about how something should/could have been done better, if you're a fan of the underlying concept, is not hatewatching.

I think a lot of people want to like this show, but are continually disappointed with how it goes about the way it chooses to expound on its concepts. And that's not exactly hatewatching.

And even if you end up hating things in an episode, the only way to arrive at that conclusion is to watch it

 

[fireproof78]

Not really, in past Trek's there would have at least been believable reasons behind things happening.

No, not always.

That's missing the point. But it's best to not drag it out. Cheers!

That we all have our own way. Some ways strike me as more odd than others.

 

[Lord Garth]

One thing I liked about this episode that I didn't mention earlier: Getting to see T'Rina in an episode without Saru. We got to see her in full representative mode every moment of the episode she was in. I like the Saru/T'Rina relationship, but I like seeing her separate from that as well.

 

[fireproof78]

One thing I liked about this episode that I didn't mention earlier: Getting to see T'Rina in an episode without Saru. We got to see her in full representative mode every moment of the episode she was in. I like the Saru/T'Rina relationship, but I like seeing her separate from that as well.

Indeed. That was a very interesting aspect, and usually I don't like politics, but this was very good. T'Rina was really great standing on her own.

 

[Citiprime]

It really can't. I stopped watching The Next Generation and followed Deep Space Nine fine.

I stopped watching Voyager but I can't deny that it left elements that you just can't ignore, since they've been used in other shows (e.g., Seven of Nine, the effects of Janeway's actions against the Borg, etc.). Prodigy uses many elements of Voyager as a basis of its backstory. You can watch it without knowing about Janeway or Chakotay, but it does add depth if you understand why Janeway is so passionate about finding Chakotay.

All of the series have elements that inform the rest of Star Trek and affect the fictional history the other series have to work around. The Battle of Wolf 359 from TNG is a major event that colors a lot of the Berman era, including Deep Space Nine especially with the characterization of Sisko from where he starts the show to where he ends up. Aspects of DS9's Dominion War have had long-lasting effects that have permeated throughout almost every other Trek series since it (e.g., Section 31 has been used in almost every Trek property, both film and TV, since DS9).

And I'm guessing that some of the choices from Discovery are going to be the basis for Starfleet Academy if as expected it's set in the 32nd century. Fans being vocal about the choices they like or don't like may be inconsequential, or might make some of those in charge rethink things. The absolute awful reaction to the season 1 Klingons probably meant we didn't have to live with the disastrous redesign of the Klingons in every other Paramount+ series since Discovery.

I just have this weird thing of people watching things they (check notes) actually like, rather than constantly courting disappointment. Yes, I'm strange. I stop watching things I'm disappointed in.

I like Star Trek. This is still Star Trek. It's the only new Star Trek thing on right now and it's coming to an end. So I want to give it the benefit of the doubt even if I've been disappointed in the past because it is offering new stories (and background) to the Star Trek universe. But I'm still going to say I think it was meh if it's meh.

There was no reason for Starfleet Headquarters to sit around waiting for the Breen Dreadnaught to show up instead of just Warping away. Instead they just didn't warp away, because the writers said they didn't warp away.

One part of the worldbuilding that annoys me, especially after season 3, is we're not really given a sense of what exactly is the state of the Federation in the time since they began recovering.

We know some of the former members have come home. And given the response to the DMA, it seemed like it had started putting the pieces back together in season 4, given the cooperation in deciding how to proceed.

But Starfleet HQ and a handful of ships surrounding it always seems to be the extent of the fleet. The fact that ONE Breen Dreadnought is enough to threaten the heart of the Federation, to the point they have to use 800 year old tricks to seem more powerful on sensors, just seems off.

I mean if this one Breen ship is enough to be a threat to the Federation capital, I would not feel protected by membership in the Federation and think there is something seriously wrong with its defense policy.

 

[fireproof78]

Fans being vocal about the choices they like or don't like may be inconsequential, or might make some of those in charge rethink things. The absolute awful reaction to the season 1 Klingons probably meant we didn't have to live with the disastrous redesign of the Klingons in every other Paramount+ series since Discovery.

More's the pity.

You can watch it without knowing about Janeway or Chakotay, but it does add depth if you understand why Janeway is so passionate about finding Chakotay.

I'm good without it.

I like Star Trek. This is still Star Trek. It's the only new Star Trek thing on right now and it's coming to an end. So I want to give it the benefit of the doubt even if I've been disappointed in the past because it is offering new stories (and background) to the Star Trek universe. But I'm still going to say I think it was meh if it's meh.

Meh Trek ain't worth it.

I wish you well, even if it baffles the hell out of me.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Not really, in past Trek's there would have at least been believable reasons behind things happening.

Take this episode.

There was no reason for Starfleet Headquarters to sit around waiting for the Breen Dreadnaught to show up instead of just Warping away. Instead they just didn't warp away, because the writers said they didn't warp away.

The reason Federation HQ or Discovery didn't just warp/jump away was answered in the first five minutes by Burnham, who points out that it doesn't matter where they go, the Breen will either pursue or cause carnage until the Federation is forced to submit.

 

[fireproof78]

The reason Federation HQ or Discovery didn't just warp/jump away was answered in the first five minutes by Burnham, who points out that it doesn't matter where they go, the Breen will either pursue or cause carnage until the Federation is forced to submit.

Also, she's seen a glimpse of what the Breen will do and can't allow that to happen.

 

[Beyerstein]

I think Starfleet should make beaming from outside the transporter room for emergency circumstances only.. just in the name of etiquette.

 

[Citiprime]

The reason Federation HQ or Discovery didn't just warp/jump away was answered in the first five minutes by Burnham, who points out that it doesn't matter where they go, the Breen will either pursue or cause carnage until the Federation is forced to submit.

Except if they had followed Vance’s original idea, and put distance between the Breen and Moll and L’ak (and maybe go somewhere in the galaxy that knows Breen medicine) maybe you delay the forces of the Breen primarch, have time to convince Moll and L’ak that you’ll protect them and won’t use them as bargaining chips, and you avoid all of the fuck ups of the third act. Burnham lied about having Moll in custody when they were trying to get her to calm down and come back to sick bay. What’s the difference between her lying about their whereabouts and Starfleet lying to the Breen about it, at least for a while, to attempt negotiation?

But the plot demands that Moll and L’ak be there so they can act like idiots, setting up the Breen joining the search for the super tech.

Also, does cloaking not work anymore? Both Discovery and Starfleet HQ had cloaking tech. Why not just jump away, cloak the ship, and use old-fashioned warp drive?