Times change.
I also laughed when Michael introduced the bridge crew to him. Like they will be important. They haven’t been before.
Yawn.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 5x03 - "Jinaal"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Times change.
Yawn.
I always got the impression it didn’t work because they used protomatter and/or because it was done on a nebula and not a planet. Theres one in the vault in Picard season 3 which might indicate they have fixed the bugs.
I really loved the first two episodes of this season, but found this one a bore. I gave it a 6.
Same. And how the hell did nobody notice the imposter. I know they wore robes but cmon man.
Speaking of your avatar, I can see Pulaski being one of the scientists.
“The handsome and erudite Saru.” So sweet. I am greatly enjoying the romance between T’Rina and Saru. I like the insights into how Vulcan has been changed by Romulan culture and T’Rina’s commitment to honesty and her aide’s take on how an emotional being like Saru could be logical. I also appreciated Burnham’s Vulcan meditation.
Rayner is predictably jerky, but I still like the guy better than the mannered, touchy feely approach this show often takes.
Tilly can go back to the Academy any time now.
I’ve never liked the Trill and almost never enjoy watching Gray and Adira. This was no exception.
Rayner is predictably jerky, but I still like the guy better than the mannered, touchy feely approach this show often takes.
Tilly can go back to the Academy any time now.
I’ve never liked the Trill and almost never enjoy watching Gray and Adira. This was no exception.
Easy. She's Moll Hax.
I see Jellicoe has reincarnated into Rayner. Only the mission matters! He also humored Tilly by not saying the devastating "dismissed" when she spoke without permission. I love how he's a walking Twitter. Express yourself in this many characters/words...
Well that was disappointing. It was tepid compared to the first 2.
Even if the Trill were keeping their knowledge of this symbiont and clue a secret no one would have found out from other hosts in Starfleet all these years? Even before the Burn. You're not telling me Kovich didn't know, he is all-knowing.
The use of the same quarry they have had in other episodes was a comedown from that fantastic alienscapes of the last 2 episodes. The fire roaches didn't rescue these scenes.
A few things saved this episode.
Cruz as Culber gave an excellent performance.
Moll in disguise showing how clever those two really are in letting the Discovery do all the work and figuring out the last clue.
Rayner and Tilly. I wanted more of this. Pike did the same thing Rayner did but in his own easy-going manner.
The Federation meeting. The world-building is still happening with the Federation, it's good to see.
7 out of 10.
Even if the Trill were keeping their knowledge of this symbiont and clue a secret no one would have found out from other hosts in Starfleet all these years? Even before the Burn. You're not telling me Kovich didn't know, he is all-knowing.
The use of the same quarry they have had in other episodes was a comedown from that fantastic alienscapes of the last 2 episodes. The fire roaches didn't rescue these scenes.
A few things saved this episode.
Cruz as Culber gave an excellent performance.
Moll in disguise showing how clever those two really are in letting the Discovery do all the work and figuring out the last clue.
Rayner and Tilly. I wanted more of this. Pike did the same thing Rayner did but in his own easy-going manner.
The Federation meeting. The world-building is still happening with the Federation, it's good to see.
7 out of 10.
That would be amazing, but TPTB seem to want forget Pulaski.
Considering the politics and misogyny going on with that whole thing better to let it die.
The shots we got of Federation HQ and the fleet were phenomenal. I wonder who the USS Locherer was named after.
I really like the dynamic between Rayner and Tilly. I predict a buddy cop movie in their future.
I'm loving the world building that is happening. Another reference to the Breen being up to no good and I get the feeling a fight is coming.
Rhy's comment about 23rd century Constitution class is some very nice foreshadowing
Here's hoping we get to meet a Tzenkethi finally.
T'rina and Saru continue to be my favourite part of the show.
Side note: Where are the Klingons. Like not even a off the cuff reference to diplomatic relations with them or anything. Seems like it is almost on purpose.
I really like the dynamic between Rayner and Tilly. I predict a buddy cop movie in their future.
I'm loving the world building that is happening. Another reference to the Breen being up to no good and I get the feeling a fight is coming.
Rhy's comment about 23rd century Constitution class is some very nice foreshadowing
Here's hoping we get to meet a Tzenkethi finally.
T'rina and Saru continue to be my favourite part of the show.
Side note: Where are the Klingons. Like not even a off the cuff reference to diplomatic relations with them or anything. Seems like it is almost on purpose.
Oh not this again. Isn't clinging to this old idea that white emotionless men should lead everything tiresome at this point?
This episode was alright, with some fun moments. Predictable at the end, though. I guessed it had to be a non-violent solution to "prove" we were evolved enough to have the technology.
And at last they've explained the depth of this ancient tech. Machines that create life, or can give life back to the dead (massive foreshadowing there, I'm sure)
And at last they've explained the depth of this ancient tech. Machines that create life, or can give life back to the dead (massive foreshadowing there, I'm sure)
For better or worse, that was the most Discovery of Discovery episodes - in that it showed exactly the kind of series Michelle Paradise wants it to be. Four different plots were woven around the idea that listening to others and emotional connection is the most central thing.
My issue is it also showcased how the "right way to be" for the main characters was as conflict-averse as possible. It might make for an emotionally-healthy person, but it makes for shitty drama in an episode that's supposed to be all about drama.
I guess the A-plot here is Michael and Book going around Trill, with Culber possessed by Jinaal. While it did have a central Trekkian message in the end, none of this quite gelled right to me. Wilson Cruz was playing Jinaal in such a way that I kept expecting something nefarious, which was never (really) played out. And the setup for the "test" was so contrived (how did he know those beasts would be there 800 years later?) that he felt more like a video game NPC than a real character. Having Book be stung by the thing, which amounted to absolutely nothing, was also a bit of a cheap move.
Then there's the breakup of Adira and Gray - such as it was. The "breakup" scene showcases how Discovery's supposedly "adult" handling of drama wrecks the tension by eliminating potential sources of conflict. A good breakup is as drama-free as possible, but that doesn't make for good television. On TV, we want to see the sparks fly. I understand this wouldn't fit thematically with the episode, but that presents the option for a reconciliation later on down the line.
And as a quick aside, when will the writers remember that Adira is actually joined to a symbiont again? I was excited for a second when they called them "Tal," but nope, it's never mentioned—not even by the Trill. I don't understand why they crafted this elaborate backstory for them in Season 3, only never to use it again.
The Saru/T'Rina "drama" is better, but here, they get in the mildest of spats, Saru immediately apologizes, and everything is fine. Again, the story seemed to be promising a much bigger snafu than what was delivered. I didn't have high expectations for a secondary plot like this, but I expected it to go somewhere.
Finally, there's Rayner getting his sea legs as XO, and pissing off most of the crew. This was probably my favorite section, insofar as there was real conflict and tension, and Rayner was allowed to make mistakes, which presumably will lead to an arc where he eventually gains the trust of the crew. I hope he only meets the "Discovery mindset" halfway here, and the crew benefits from his more military-like approach as well because Tilly's admonishment that Rayner should really just be friends with the crew in order to have their respect is, again, very sledgehammer.
Then it all ends with Gray's monologue, clobbering you over the head with the central message if you somehow missed the subtext - there is only one right way to do being a person, and that's to be open and emotionally available.
This may be right in real life, but it's not what I want to see on the screen. I wonder what these writers would do with a character like Worf, Odo, or O'Brien sometimes.
My issue is it also showcased how the "right way to be" for the main characters was as conflict-averse as possible. It might make for an emotionally-healthy person, but it makes for shitty drama in an episode that's supposed to be all about drama.
I guess the A-plot here is Michael and Book going around Trill, with Culber possessed by Jinaal. While it did have a central Trekkian message in the end, none of this quite gelled right to me. Wilson Cruz was playing Jinaal in such a way that I kept expecting something nefarious, which was never (really) played out. And the setup for the "test" was so contrived (how did he know those beasts would be there 800 years later?) that he felt more like a video game NPC than a real character. Having Book be stung by the thing, which amounted to absolutely nothing, was also a bit of a cheap move.
Then there's the breakup of Adira and Gray - such as it was. The "breakup" scene showcases how Discovery's supposedly "adult" handling of drama wrecks the tension by eliminating potential sources of conflict. A good breakup is as drama-free as possible, but that doesn't make for good television. On TV, we want to see the sparks fly. I understand this wouldn't fit thematically with the episode, but that presents the option for a reconciliation later on down the line.
And as a quick aside, when will the writers remember that Adira is actually joined to a symbiont again? I was excited for a second when they called them "Tal," but nope, it's never mentioned—not even by the Trill. I don't understand why they crafted this elaborate backstory for them in Season 3, only never to use it again.
The Saru/T'Rina "drama" is better, but here, they get in the mildest of spats, Saru immediately apologizes, and everything is fine. Again, the story seemed to be promising a much bigger snafu than what was delivered. I didn't have high expectations for a secondary plot like this, but I expected it to go somewhere.
Finally, there's Rayner getting his sea legs as XO, and pissing off most of the crew. This was probably my favorite section, insofar as there was real conflict and tension, and Rayner was allowed to make mistakes, which presumably will lead to an arc where he eventually gains the trust of the crew. I hope he only meets the "Discovery mindset" halfway here, and the crew benefits from his more military-like approach as well because Tilly's admonishment that Rayner should really just be friends with the crew in order to have their respect is, again, very sledgehammer.
Then it all ends with Gray's monologue, clobbering you over the head with the central message if you somehow missed the subtext - there is only one right way to do being a person, and that's to be open and emotionally available.
This may be right in real life, but it's not what I want to see on the screen. I wonder what these writers would do with a character like Worf, Odo, or O'Brien sometimes.
Last edited:
I went to bed, watched the episode, went back to bed, now I'm up again. I'm going to start off with bullet points and work my way up.
It's 3191, and they say it twice!
First Voyager mention of the season.
The break-up between Adira and Gray went pretty well, all things considered. They really were on different paths. Besides that, I have to agree with general consensus that they didn't have much chemistry. Too bad I have to land on that opinion.
Saru navigating politics and being married to a politician. He still has the fear and caution even though he lost his ganglia a long time ago. I think he might become good at politics though. He has to weigh his every word and action so exactly, and that seems like something he does anyway. If he can learn how to take chaos into account, he's golden.
Rayner reminds me of Lorca. I said this last week, and this week drives it further home. His bluntness, shortness, aloofness, and being pragmatic to a fault are all things I could picture from Lorca. The tension between Rayner and Tilly is exactly the type of tension I imagine would've happened between Lorca and Tilly in the first season, if she'd been a Lieutenant. So, basically, with Rayner, they have a second chance with this type of character.
Saved the best for last! Culber-As-Jinal is the highlight of the episode!
Okay, not the last. This is the last: Not only do they reference the Dominion War, but Jinal backs up what I've long thought about the 24th Century. They thought they were evolved but they really weren't. During the Dominion War, anyone could've used the Projenator technology that Burnham is looking for as a weapon, and it would've gained them an advantage. Burnham had to prove that Humanity was more evolved in the 32nd Century than it was in the war-torn 24th. To which Burnham says, "We are at peace." But she's not arrogant about it and is realistic about how things could change.
It's 3191, and they say it twice!
First Voyager mention of the season.
The break-up between Adira and Gray went pretty well, all things considered. They really were on different paths. Besides that, I have to agree with general consensus that they didn't have much chemistry. Too bad I have to land on that opinion.
Saru navigating politics and being married to a politician. He still has the fear and caution even though he lost his ganglia a long time ago. I think he might become good at politics though. He has to weigh his every word and action so exactly, and that seems like something he does anyway. If he can learn how to take chaos into account, he's golden.
Rayner reminds me of Lorca. I said this last week, and this week drives it further home. His bluntness, shortness, aloofness, and being pragmatic to a fault are all things I could picture from Lorca. The tension between Rayner and Tilly is exactly the type of tension I imagine would've happened between Lorca and Tilly in the first season, if she'd been a Lieutenant. So, basically, with Rayner, they have a second chance with this type of character.
Saved the best for last! Culber-As-Jinal is the highlight of the episode!
Okay, not the last. This is the last: Not only do they reference the Dominion War, but Jinal backs up what I've long thought about the 24th Century. They thought they were evolved but they really weren't. During the Dominion War, anyone could've used the Projenator technology that Burnham is looking for as a weapon, and it would've gained them an advantage. Burnham had to prove that Humanity was more evolved in the 32nd Century than it was in the war-torn 24th. To which Burnham says, "We are at peace." But she's not arrogant about it and is realistic about how things could change.
Last edited:
8 out of 10 for me. I'm not the biggest fan of Trill episodes but this wasnt bad. Especially enjoyed the Rayner and Tilly scenes and the Saru/T'rina scenes. Sadly it looks like they've written out Nillson on the show (she was mentioned as having transferred to Voyager J). Like everyone else, I'm hoping we do finally see a Tzenkethi. And hope we run into the Breen too
Good point. Despite the lip service, the Federation is almost never shown at peace. I think the striving for peace...the desire for it is measurably higher than 21st century Earth but that's about it.
Honestly, after five seasons of nothing but the opposite, Rayner is refreshing as hell, as was Lorca. I like a blend of character types on a crew and that does not mean excluding characters like Rayner, who is also interesting as a Kellerun.
Yeah, let's give Admiral Leyton the Progenitor tech... He can be trusted with it.
Spot on, Jinaal. Spot on.
Spot on, Jinaal. Spot on.
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll
- Poll
