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Spoilers Ghostbusters: Frozen Empire grade and discussion thread

How do you rate Ghostbusters: Frozen Empire?


  • Total voters
    32
I was left thinking... I kind of hope this is the last one. The old guys are certainly done, and honestly the new cast just isn't strong enough to carry it. I actively can't stand Podcast, the rest are just... there. I still really hate that it's focused on kids... the humor would work much better with a group of adults. Always thought a new GB team would be a new set of up-and-coming comedians.

Well, the ladies from the 2016 movie were adults, and they were funny, but not for most of the loudmouthed dudebro fandom (and their female auxiliaries), plus Frozen Empire's made mad book at the box office, so there will be more with this new cast of characters (there are two adults, Coon and Rudd, so that balances out the need for adult characters as part of this new team); also, Grace, Kim, Wolfhard, & O’Connor will all be adults soon, so I don't see the haterade for the young ones, nor the need to create all-new adult characters (although the inclusion of the older 'Busters could be limited to them being the ones that send the younger 'Busters out to do the 'Bustin' while they sit back at the firehouse monitoring them by radio, as Egon did in Extreme Ghostbusters.)

I saw the film on IMAX on Saturday but I'm only just getting the chance to review it now. While is perhaps a little overstuffed as it tried to service all of the characters, both old and new, I really enjoyed the overall adventure and new mythos.

If it hadn't done that, people (especially the people at this site and this site would be complaining about how O'Connor/Lucky was shortchanged, and all of the attention given to the main white female character and her mom.

Once again, Mckenna Grace stole the film from the plethora of stars around her. That said, I do wish there had been more focus on Phoebe's story arc, which was easily the most engaging part of the film. I particularly wanted to see more of her relationship with Melody, especially since we've never actually seen such a strong interaction between a human and a ghost in the films (Slimer doesn't count). Plus, the trajectory of that relationship reminded me of the Webby/Lena story arc in the new DuckTales, with the added layer of Phoebe's sense of rejection and abandonment pushing her into that relationship. I say all of this despite fully predicting that Melody was using Phoebe, would apologize for betraying her, and would ultimately redeem herself. If the film had focused more on that relationship instead of trying to balance everyone, I think that arc would've felt more fleshed out and less blatant.

As I've said before in other posts in other discussions, the American movie industry needs to bring back the roadshow theatrical release that allows for a longer cut of a movie to be seen, even if people sit on their butts too long.

That all said and focusing on what film we did get (instead of harping on what could've been), I still greatly enjoyed the various mini-arcs that played out within the Spengler family and the original Ghostbusters (but I wish Janine had more to do and with that nifty wrist device during the climax!). Unsurprisingly, the biggest highlight was Gary trying to find his place within the family and his relationship with Phoebe. Even if it was a bit cliché, I felt he earned her calling him "Dad" at the end.

It worked well enough for me, but I was slightly annoyed by Phoebe just trusting in Melody, considering that Garraka was manipulating her. I also found what Phoebe did with the spirit machine to be dangerous.

I liked the new mythos of Garraka and the ancient history built around him, and I particularly liked how it reminded me of Raiders of the Lost Ark. I'm certain someone on the internet is either calling it derivative or a straight-up rip-off, but I liked the allusion to the Indiana Jones adventure. While I do think adding supernatural abilities to humans was a bit much, but at least it was limited to one lineage specific to this particular mythos.

Considering what we've seen in most of the other movies and that this is science fictional fantasy, the idea of an ancient order of people that also 'busted' ghosts by containing them in magical receptacles using fire was a great concept (and a better semi-retcon of the franchise with a future history than what was seen in Men In Black International.)

In addition to Garraka, I loved all of the new ghosts introduced in this film. I especially loved the Possessor, even if it forced me to look past the obvious plot hole of Winston's engineers failing to re-secure the cracked glass of its enclosure, which only happened to ensure its escape and helping Garraka's own escape.

That was carelessness on their part and the part of the writers, yes.

Much like Afterlife, this film is a passing of the torch between generations, and I really hope any potential future films focuses strongly on just the Spengler family. As unlikely as it seems considering the lukewarm reviews (but at least the opening weekend box office take is the same as Afterlife), I would love to see even more of the Ghost Corps beyond the Spengler family in a separate film and/or series. A guy can dream!
*

I think that sticking to the Spenglers, Lucky, & Podcast is a better idea than restarting with new people that might not be popular with (some of) the fans like the ladies from the 2016 movie; as I said, longer cuts of movies like this one are needed, even at the risk of people having to spend a lot of time in seats (which really doesn't exist because of the intermission that was a part of roadshow theatrical release.)

As much I as I enjoy this film, I agree that there are certain plot holes. While I'm willing to look past most of them (including the ones you talked about and the one I brought up), I do agree there is a significant pacing issue as direct result of its overstuffed nature. The Phoebe/Melody relationship in particular stood out to me when I realized that it had been sitting on the back burner until it was time for Phoebe to accidentally let Garraka free.

Again, this comes from too much cutting and not having said roadshow theatrical release that would allow for a longer cut with an intermission for event movies like these.

Speaking of whom, I loved the worldbuilding with Winston's engineers, even if all we really got to see were Dr. Lars Pinfield, Lucky the intern, and Janine, all of whom mostly disappear during the third act due to the overstuffed cast and plot. I wish we had gotten more of that worldbuilding instead of some of the more convoluted aspects of releasing Garraka.

Refer to what I said above about needing the roadshow theatrical release coming back.

I was surprised Lucky's near death was cut short when the trailer explicitly teased it.

I thought she was going to die too, and I was afraid that if it had actually happened, the backlash from Afro-American media and feminist media as mentioned above would hurt the movie; therefore, I was glad to see that the moviemakers had the sense to keep her alive, knowing what black media would say about how too many black people die in movies.

Yeah, I got the sense a lot was left on the editing floor, for better or for worse. That said, considering the film's overstuffed nature, I'm not sure how what was cut could've fit in.

Again, see what I said above about my belief that the major American movie studios need to bring back the roadshow theatrical release so that movies like this can have an entire story told.


*This was an edit because i had a little slowdown with my PC while I was composing this post, so I came back and edited it.-Shaka
 
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I love that idea for a roadshow theatrical release with a longer cut...but it'll never happen because there's no way the higher ups would be convinced that would be worth the financial investment.
 
I love that idea for a roadshow theatrical release with a longer cut...but it'll never happen because there's no way the higher ups would be convinced that would be worth the financial investment.

They need to realize this, or at least provide a longer special edition home video release (as happened with the 2016 movie) so that a complete story can be told, elsewise they'll be seeing infringements to their properties like these ones of this movie.
 
Another factor is the director. I don't know how Kenan (or Reitman) feel about director's cuts. Are they more like Peter Jackson (who included more material for fans), Denis Villeneuve (who won't restore cut material despite how much he loves the original material), Ridley Scott (who did director's cuts to restore his original visions after studio meddling), or Christopher Nolan (who, like Villeneuve, considers the editing process sacred and final)?
 
Finally saw this on Friday. I enjoyed it. It isn't anything spectacular but it was fun and didn't outstay its welcome. As a lot of people have said the cast is way too big, they definitely need to trim things for the next one (if there is a next one) and focus more on the newer characters (but they maybe need to trim a few of them) That being said, am I the only person who loves Podcast?

Of the brand new characters I liked Nadeem best, he was funny. Always nice to see Patton Oswalt but you could have excised that character (love the idea of library ghost being the expert) and Lars seemed a tad superfluous. Annoyingly the whole thing lifted every time Venkman appeared. Murray may (or may not) be a dick but his screen presence is always great. Bless him, William Atherton looks so old now, but always nice to see him.

I agree with the Pitch Meeting re Melody and Phoebe's relationship clearly bordering on romantic without going all the way enough to annoy certain sections of the audience. Grace continues to be the beating heart of the new cast, though again I kinda like all of them (in particular Coon's slightly flawed, utterly human mom).

New York encased in ice when nowhere and has zero impact I thought, which is a shame. Going to all the trouble of confiscating their proton packs just for Lars to turn up with new ones was pointless. Also I got annoyed when Trevor got sniffy over someone using the term "lasers" and then late on he un-ironically talks about "lasers". I don't know if that was intentional and set up as a joke but if it was it didn't land right.

Fun but maybe a tad forgettable. Next film needs a leaner cast, lose all the legacy characters except Ray and/or Winston
 
Well, the ladies from the 2016 movie were adults, and they were funny, but not for most of the loudmouthed dudebro fandom (and their female auxiliaries)

The cast wasn't the issue of the 2016 movie. The ladies were fine, they were just given garbage to work with.

plus Frozen Empire's made mad book at the box office,

Not really. It made back it's production budget, but it's dropped MASSIVELY after the opening weekend. As of right this instant, it has not yet recouped it's total budget. It will likely turn a profit in the long run, but it's not a particularly massive success.

so there will be more with this new cast of characters (there are two adults, Coon and Rudd, so that balances out the need for adult characters as part of this new team); also, Grace, Kim, Wolfhard, & O’Connor will all be adults soon, so I don't see the haterade for the young ones, nor the need to create all-new adult characters (although the inclusion of the older 'Busters could be limited to them being the ones that send the younger 'Busters out to do the 'Bustin' while they sit back at the firehouse monitoring them by radio, as Egon did in Extreme Ghostbusters.)

My previous statement notwithstanding, I do think there will be at least one more with this cast, and i'm cool with that. Figure another 3-4 years or so, putting Phoebe right at 18 and Trevor into being a like, adult adult.

I think part of my issue with the young cast is that they just weren't well developed as characters outside of Phoebe. Out of the rest, Podcast is already Flanderized as "Wacky", Lucky is kind of there to be the "cool" one, I think, but she doesn't do much. Trevor exists.

I agree with the Pitch Meeting re Melody and Phoebe's relationship clearly bordering on romantic without going all the way enough to annoy certain sections of the audience. Grace continues to be the beating heart of the new cast, though again I kinda like all of them (in particular Coon's slightly flawed, utterly human mom)

Maybe I just wasn't looking for it, but I really did read Phoebe and Melody as romantic at all. It was established in Afterlife that Phoebe doesn't have many friends and doesn't make friends easily. Ghost girl roughly her age shows up and is nice to her, and... she made a friend.

I really don't see any romantic connection there, at all.
 
I think it can be read either way but for me the body language, eye contact and awkwardness suggested something more than platonic.
 
They seemed to not know what to do with the Mother character (I cannot even remember her name) for the entire movie.
 
It was OK. Don't need anymore though.

I think I'm in the minority that enjoyed 2016 more than either afterlife or frozen empire.
 
The mother's name is Callie, and she's just a part of the group as Phoebe is.
I don't dispute her being part of the team and rightly so. I just don't think she had much to do in this movie.
Her name...was it even said onscreen in FE? I just saw it for the second time last night.
 
They seemed to not know what to do with the Mother character (I cannot even remember her name) for the entire movie.

Callie plays a fairly important role as the "straight man", the voice of reason. Callie grounds the team and keeps everyone from drifting off into their own version of crazy.

Phoebe overextends and needs to be reigned in.
Gary gets distracted and will likely go off on some tangent with a cool toy or something.
Trevor exists.

This movie did suffer from character bloat. They could have better utilized people and combined some parts. I liked the new Engineer guy whose name I already forgot, but realistically they could have just rolled him into Lucky and Winston? Although I still feel like we need to drop one of the kids... it's gotta either be Trevor, Podcast or Lucky. Wolfhard is too big of a name to drop even though Trevor does absolutely nothing. I think Lucky adds more to the story, in the small bit that she does.

EDIT -

I just read an interview with the actress who played Melody, where she responds to the idea there was a romantic relationship. She said that they really didn't establish it either way and didn't play it in any particular direction, leaving it up to the audience. That's fair.
 
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Saw this on Friday, and loved it. After Afrerlife had released, that had gone to the second spot displacing GBII, but GB: FE displaces it, easily. This feels like a true sequel along the lines we've been waiting for decades. I felt like the critics had been rather harsh on this one, as I felt it lot all the right notes for me, including the jokes.

still feel like we need to drop one of the kids... it's gotta either be Trevor, Podcast or Lucky

Yeah, Trevor was kind of just there for most of the movie. Send him off to University or something for the next movie. Plus, honestly I'd forgotten about Podcast from the last movie, and had to remind myself what his role was in Afterlife. Lucky as well. Felt like a few too many roles from Afterlife had been carried over.
 
Yeah, Trevor was kind of just there for most of the movie. Send him off to University or something for the next movie. Plus, honestly I'd forgotten about Podcast from the last movie, and had to remind myself what his role was in Afterlife. Lucky as well. Felt like a few too many roles from Afterlife had been carried over.

Just by straight real-world concerns, Trevor wouldn't be the one to go. Finn Wolfhard is a higher on the totem pole actor than... whoever played Podcast and Lucky.

It would have taken a slight rewrite, but I think they could have rolled Podcast, Lucky and Engineer Dude into Trevor for FE. Have Trevor show up slightly later in the movie, being the glimpse into the Engineering Division. Phoebe, Gary and Cassie go about the normal ghostbusting stuff, while Trevor works more closely with the older guys.
 
I agree that even though he's kind of useless, Trevor won't go because he's played by Finn Wolfhard. Lucky is the most expendable one, IMO. Podcast is Phoebe's friend and has close ties with Ray. Lucky being in Frozen Empire already felt like a stretch.
 
Just by straight real-world concerns, Trevor wouldn't be the one to go. Finn Wolfhard is a higher on the totem pole actor than... whoever played Podcast and Lucky.

Which is surprising because he got less screen time than those two. I liked that Podcast got to produce a podcast with Ray, so that's something, but it didn't really feel like Lucky needed to be in the movie.
 
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Which is surprising because he got less screen time than those two.

The movie was definitely chopped up. They went through all the trouble to wrangle in Bill Murray and then cut out Bill Murray parts.I have a felling Trevor had more to do originally but it got cut out to "I'm 18", and "Hey it's Slimer!"
 
Lucky and Engineer Dude into Trevor for FE. Have Trevor show up slightly later in the movie, being the glimpse into the Engineering Division.

yep and we already saw he's mechanically inclined, in addition to being Spengler's grandson, so it would make perfect sense to put him in GB engineering.
 
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