They didn't write it.
From The New York Times:
Four uncredited writers at the now-defunct studio Terminal Reality actually wrote The Video Game.
Spoilers Ghostbusters: Frozen Empire grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
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They didn't write it.
From The New York Times:
Four uncredited writers at the now-defunct studio Terminal Reality actually wrote The Video Game.
I was going by what it says in the credits. Had no idea.
Still, the game is awesome. Yeah sure it's the Ghostbusters Greatest Hits track but... cool. That's the stuff I wanted to play.
To the main topic, one I thing I like about this movie is how Venkman is basically just Bill Murray at this point, and I think it totally works. I would really love some more background on what the guys have really been up to since '89. I can see Venkman having spun off some of his celebrity from '84 and maintained a cult fanbase. I see Venkman as being like a D-List celebrity, the type that would show up on like VH1 reality shows. He's a prominent fixture on this worlds version of "I Love The 80's". He was almost certainly on "The Surreal Life". And then he just became... weird, like his real life counter part.
Obviously Winston has been busy, and Ray has just been chilling in his book store. Although I feel like Ray occasionally got up to some shenanigans when he was able to sniff something paranormal enough out.
I agree with the consensus that this was still pretty good, but a clear step down from Afterlife. The pacing was definitely off. Regarding Phoebe's storyline, my interpretation of Grace's performance is that Phoebe was experiencing possible romantic feelings for Melody--likely the first time she's ever experienced such feelings--and that's why she was willing to do what she did to try and be able to interact with her. (Though given the age difference between the actors, even if that was the intent I'm glad they didn't go too far with it.)
I don't mind that they keep having the OG cast show up, at least in the earlier parts of the movie with Ray being the occult expert goaded into action by the kids, Winston as the money man keeping the government off their backs so they can do their jobs, and I actually really liked how they brought Venkman in to do his job as a parapsychologist and interviewing Nadeem. I could have done without them actually suiting up again at the end, but it's fine.
I actually do disagree with others who say Phoebe shouldn't be the main focus going forward. She's a great character, and she's also the only one of the Spengler-Grooberson family who feels like a fully realized one. Gary's not bad, I do think he was more interesting here as the boyfriend trying to gain acceptance in the family. Callie had more to do in Afterlife (her reconciliation with Egon was genuinely moving, which was impressive since Egon was CGI) but then not much here. Trevor is kind of just there. You could take him out of both of these movies and not much would change, particularly Frozen Empire. They really need to figure something out for him in the next one. I also seem to be the only one who likes Podcast; I love his sense of humor, and he would work great as the new Ghostbusters' PR/hype man in the digital era.
Unless the box office craters after opening weekend, I do think we'll at least get one more movie, but it did feel like Sony really want to do more than just a direct sequel. I'm open to it as long as they don't run it into the ground (which they will if they can). I liked the expansion of the worldbuilding here with Nadeem, the Fire Masters, and historical "ghostbusters." Speaking of which, that close-up on the "Manhattan Adventurers Society" in the prologue definitely felt like a set-up for a potential spinoff. I don't hate the idea of ghostbusters in the early 20th century...
I don't mind that they keep having the OG cast show up, at least in the earlier parts of the movie with Ray being the occult expert goaded into action by the kids, Winston as the money man keeping the government off their backs so they can do their jobs, and I actually really liked how they brought Venkman in to do his job as a parapsychologist and interviewing Nadeem. I could have done without them actually suiting up again at the end, but it's fine.
I actually do disagree with others who say Phoebe shouldn't be the main focus going forward. She's a great character, and she's also the only one of the Spengler-Grooberson family who feels like a fully realized one. Gary's not bad, I do think he was more interesting here as the boyfriend trying to gain acceptance in the family. Callie had more to do in Afterlife (her reconciliation with Egon was genuinely moving, which was impressive since Egon was CGI) but then not much here. Trevor is kind of just there. You could take him out of both of these movies and not much would change, particularly Frozen Empire. They really need to figure something out for him in the next one. I also seem to be the only one who likes Podcast; I love his sense of humor, and he would work great as the new Ghostbusters' PR/hype man in the digital era.
Unless the box office craters after opening weekend, I do think we'll at least get one more movie, but it did feel like Sony really want to do more than just a direct sequel. I'm open to it as long as they don't run it into the ground (which they will if they can). I liked the expansion of the worldbuilding here with Nadeem, the Fire Masters, and historical "ghostbusters." Speaking of which, that close-up on the "Manhattan Adventurers Society" in the prologue definitely felt like a set-up for a potential spinoff. I don't hate the idea of ghostbusters in the early 20th century...
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It's interesting to see different perspectives. I didn't get that at all. Phoebe had been previously established as having a hard time making friends. Ghost-Girl roughly her same age shows up and Phoebe found another outcast who she could identify with an be friends with. I think trying to do anything romantic there cheapens that story.
I don't think many are really saying Phoebe shouldn't be the focus, it's more that Phoebe being the focus without a stronger ensemble might be strong enough to carry a movie. One of the exact problems is that they really botched the development of the other characters. Callie is... fine as essentially "the straight man" and voice of sanity, a character archetype that doesn't necessarily need a ton of development. The character development just needs to establish some kind of credibility as being reasonable, which she has. Grooberson is... fine? Trevor was the big miss, his character development consisting of "I'm present. And 18."
Yeah. Podcast is terrible. I like the idea of a digital era hypeman. I don't like it being Podcast.
Sony desperately wants a big franchise. This COULD be it, but Sony... is Sony and is terrible at this. Even going by the two new movies, i'm going to keep harping on this... they didn't "pass the torch" well, because they just piled on new characters without actually developing most of them. Do I REALLY want to see a Ghostbusters movie without the old guys and the just the Spenglers, Podcast and Lucky? The answer is... not really? I would watch it... and hope that it's good... but I have a hard time getting excited about it because I just don't particularly care about any of the characters short of Phoebe... and I barely care about Phoebe.
That said, I do think a movie with just them could work, but cut the bloat out of the cast. Again, ditch Podcast and Lucky. Callie, Gary, Trevor and Phoebe can handle it, give them more time to shine individually. If you can get any of the old guys again, cool have them present but not really part of the story. Don't bother with Bill Murray again, have Ernie Hudson in a small role as the Big Boss, and if Akroyd will do it again, have him hanging out. Give him the Patton Oswalt-type role, they need information, they go to Ray.
I binged GB1 and 2 over the weekend. One thing I miss that has been missing in these new movies, but was actually mildly present in 2016, was a "cool" factor. Like... in 1 and 2 the guys are just... kinda cool. They're witty and rebellious and such. We don't get that in these movies. Almost the exact opposite. Phoebe is explicitly as uncool as possible by design. Trevor I think was supposed to be cool but... it never took off. Callie and Gary are treated as lame parents. Podcast is probably supposed to be "cool" too and maybe i'm just old and don't get it. Lucky is the only one who I say has the cool factor, and... she gets very little to do.
I look back at how the OG team dealt with Peck vs. the New Team. OG Team stood up to him, called him names, insulted him, and pretty gave him a giant "screw you". The new team... kinda cowered, rolled over and were like "Sorry, won't happen again sir." At least Phoebe kinda stood up to him, but instead of the rest of them saying how awesome she was for it, she got scolded.
I really enjoyed that. My only real criticism is that it just had one too many plot threads making a lot of the second act unfocused, and the third a bit of busy mess. Aside from that, once more McKenna Grace is the highlight of the movie, both in performance and in the story. From some of the marketing material, it looked like they might have been pushing the Spenglers off to one side and making Paul Rudd the star, but thankfully marketing is all that seems to have been.
I also enjoyed how the inclusion of the original cast felt much more organic than before. They each had a specific role and function; Winston is the money and PR guy, Janine is the adult supervision, Ray is the lore and research guy, and even Peter as the consultant felt perfect.
As much as I enjoy Kumail Nanjiani as a comedic actor; if it were up to me, I'd have cut that whole thing down to just the lore dump for the big bad and the ancient ghostbusters. He took up a lot of screen time that could have been better spent on Lucky, who does very much seem pushed off to one side.
As much as it pains me to say it, I may have cut Patton Oswalt's part too. Indeed I had a weird idea as they were pulling up to the library: what if Ray's expert in dead languages was literally dead? What if it was Eleanor Twitty herself? That would at least make made her appearance more than just an honestly pointless cameo, turning her into an actual character, which would dovetail quite nicely with Phoebe's "ghost friend" plot.
Let's hope this does well enough to allow them to keep going, but I'd still like to see more of this cast!
I also enjoyed how the inclusion of the original cast felt much more organic than before. They each had a specific role and function; Winston is the money and PR guy, Janine is the adult supervision, Ray is the lore and research guy, and even Peter as the consultant felt perfect.
As much as I enjoy Kumail Nanjiani as a comedic actor; if it were up to me, I'd have cut that whole thing down to just the lore dump for the big bad and the ancient ghostbusters. He took up a lot of screen time that could have been better spent on Lucky, who does very much seem pushed off to one side.
As much as it pains me to say it, I may have cut Patton Oswalt's part too. Indeed I had a weird idea as they were pulling up to the library: what if Ray's expert in dead languages was literally dead? What if it was Eleanor Twitty herself? That would at least make made her appearance more than just an honestly pointless cameo, turning her into an actual character, which would dovetail quite nicely with Phoebe's "ghost friend" plot.
Let's hope this does well enough to allow them to keep going, but I'd still like to see more of this cast!
That could have worked. It could have also just... been Ray giving the exposition dump. They clearly wanted to go back to the library to do that bit, and it was fun. But like, it just easily could have been Ray saying something like "I think I know what this is", and heads to the library to consult some book he found in there years ago.
Having Eleanor actually help Ray would have been neat though.
There's a small detail in this movie I liked, going into a bit more of the worldbuilding Lore. When Ray is talking about how he's thought of being a ghost, and mentions how he wonders how we would manifest. My finace, who is decidedly NOT a GB fan, hit me with some confused questions relating to... what the hell the ghosts are. Like, so are clearly people, some are weird alien looking things, and some like Eleanor are people but ALSO weird monster things.
I tried to give her the short explanation... that really, "ghost" is a very broad term in GB and alot of them aren't "ghosts" per say, but inter-dimensional aliens who inhabit a realm that ALSO happens to be "the afterlife" so to speak. When you end up in this realm, the spirit can take many forms, sometimes purposely and sometimes not. Eleanor Twitty is a good example... she WANTS to just manifest as herself and be with her books that she so loved. But... when she becomes enraged by someone making noise in the library, her rage manifests as a cosmic horror monster.
Yeah, from what I've heard and read Aykroyd saying over the years; his way of thinking is that they're a variety of things, hence a classification system. Some are the still sentient minds of people trapped between dimensions and unable to move on. Some are things that originate from various other parallel universe and exotic dimensions (demons, gods, jinn, oni, whathaveyou.) Some are just the result of psychic build-up manifesting in and around other larger psychic disturbances, like how algae gets churned up in the wake of a large ship.
Indeed I think even the ones that look human aren't necessarily human spirits, they're just human shaped. The same way a fossil isn't old organic material, it's just rock that hardened into the void left by long gone organic material. So just like a plaster cast of a footprint isn't a foot, a "human" ghost could just as easily be just an echo of a person; excess PKE build-up shaped and molded by the psychic impressions left behind. I tend to classify Slimer/Onionhead in this category rather than making him a trapped soul. More like an embodiment of the collective gluttony of hundreds of Sedgewick Hotel guests over the decades, perhaps with one in particular acting as the kernel that the rest of it built up around.
Indeed I think even the ones that look human aren't necessarily human spirits, they're just human shaped. The same way a fossil isn't old organic material, it's just rock that hardened into the void left by long gone organic material. So just like a plaster cast of a footprint isn't a foot, a "human" ghost could just as easily be just an echo of a person; excess PKE build-up shaped and molded by the psychic impressions left behind. I tend to classify Slimer/Onionhead in this category rather than making him a trapped soul. More like an embodiment of the collective gluttony of hundreds of Sedgewick Hotel guests over the decades, perhaps with one in particular acting as the kernel that the rest of it built up around.
Even right in the OG '84, Gozer wasn't a "ghost"... Gozer was Sumerian god. Vigo is questionable as a "ghost"... he was more of like, a sorcerer with supernatural abilities.
"Ghost" seems to be a broad shorthand for "Any supernatural and/or not of this Earth being". Hell the comics at one point had just a straight up alien invasion and they were "ghosts".
I do think there's a combination going on. There definitely ARE straight up human spirits, even prior to Afterlife, but DEFINITELY after Afterlife. The Mayor in '84 talks about how, when the ghosts were running a rampage, that he was talking to Fiorello Laguardia the previous night.
Then you have something like an Eleanor Twitty who may or may not actually be her conscious spirit and something more of an echo, or worse some kind of demon that has basically hijacked her soul.
The Scoleri Brothers may or may not have been the actual people, and more of a psychic manifestation of hate and evil. I wonder if the more malovent forces of the Ghost World are inherently without form and tend to utilize bastardized forms of humans based on emotions or whatever. The Scoleri Brothers may have left a huge, hateful imprint on the court... so when the slime was channeling that, the otherworldly ghost beings latched onto it.
Everyone knows Slimer is the ghost of John Belushi! To paraphrase the words of Ramis, "Someone asked who Slimer was the ghost of, and we were thinking he's this fat, gross disgusting blob... obviously it was Belushi." While obviously a joke, the very first thing we see Slimer do is chug a bottle of Jack Daniels... very much an homage to Belushi in Animal House.
But yeah I can see Slimer as being just generally a "gluttony demon" of sorts, although it also seems like not everything in the Ghost World is malevolent. Slimer is generally a "good ghost" who just likes food. He actively and seemingly purposefully helps Louis in GB2. (side note, if we get another one, I REALLY want them to go the Real Ghostbusters route and have Slimer around as an actual character. I kind of lament that the mini-pufts have kind of taken the Slimer role.)
Frozen Empire has now introduced us to the idea that ghosts have a sort of anchor in the real world. It may not necessarily need to be a physical object. Something like Slimer may just be tethered to gluttony and debauchery, and the Sedgewick keeps going just enough.
Well, the ghost of a sorcerer, certainly. He must have basically done the same thing Phobe did by separating his astral form at the point of death. Which reminds me: though I think they could have done without the character; I liked how the whole "firemaster" thing was basically them showing that "magic" isn't really magic, it's just the same science behind the proton packs, traps and containment units, only achieved through different means. The "smokeless fire" of myth, was just a proton stream. Everything still obeys a certain logic, "supernatural laws of physics" one might say.
Given that they manifested by the judge, in the courtroom instead of wherever they were actually executed; I'd say they were a manifestation of the Judge's personal, literal demons. He may have tried them for murder after all, but they may not have been guilty of murder, and he may or may not have known that. Who knows what the full story could be there?
Oh I'm aware. I just meant in-universe. Indeed that's why I suggested a "kernel" personality around which everything grew.
Bit of a stretch, but the "non-terminal" part of it's classification may be indeed have been intended to indicate that it was never alive. I don't know if Dan has ever laid out and explained his terminology in a coherent way, or if he was just throwing words around.
I actually really like this, because it opens up this eternal cycle of "Ghostbusters" through the ages who discovered how the battle the ghost world. Although the firemasters are still "magic" in so far as they don't use any technology to do what they do, rather they have an innate ability.
He kind of sort of has, although it tends to be a rambling mess when he starts talking about that stuff.
Expanded lore has gone into the classifications. I think "non-terminating" is a bit more mundane though.. I think it's just referring to the fact that Slimer is *mostly* a non-corporeal apparition that persists, unlike some apparitions who fade away.
In the case of Slimer, a "Focused, Non-Terminal, Repeating Phantasm, or a Class 5 Full-Roaming Vapor"
Focused: He's (seemingly at the time anyway) bound to the 12th floor of the hotel.
Non-Terminal: He doesn't fade away or dissapear.
Repeating: He shows up in predictable circumstances/times... i.e. where there's food.
"Phantasm" hasn't really been defined, just a fancy word for Ghost.
Class 5: Ectoplasmic entity, not of human form, usually the result of emotions of traumatic event.
Full-Roaming: Can roam freely, not bound to a location... seemingly in contradiction to "Focused", although in this case I don't think focused means it HAS to stay where it is, it just... tends to be there.
Vapor: A non-physical entity (although Slimer tends to kind of manifest more physically on occasion)
In the expanded lore, Slimer was actually the result of the Gozerian cult's attempt to summon a hunger demon to destabilize the United States by devouring its food supply. They... partly succeeded. They did summon something, but that something was Slimer, who was waaaaay too lazy to go out and cause destruction.
Sorry... I don't usually have the chance to go into detail on Ghostbusters
You clearly haven't watched the movie in a while. When Ray encounters Onionhead, he's housing leftover plates from a room service cart.
You are reading way too much into this. This is the Ghostbusters' first bust, they are flying by the seat of their pants and Ray is spouting bullshit to sound like a professional. Remember, the entire gimmick of the movie is that four nuclear-powered con men stumble ass-backwards into accidentally saving the world.
You're right, although weirdly enough I just watched the movie like, a week ago. He's chugging a bottle later in the ballroom
I don't think that's true at all. For Venkman maybe, but Ray is 100% a true believer. It's clear they have been working on this technology for quite some time prior to the start of the movie. It didn't just pop out of nowhere. Ray 100% believes every word he's saying.
Has any of the gobbledygook technobabble that Ray spouted in that scene ever been defined in any supplemental materials? With all the animated shows, comics and role-playing games out there, surely the classification system has been defined somewhere, canonically or not.
There's a YouTube channel called Channelling Spirits, which looks in depth at the franchise and things like how the Ghostbusters classify ghosts.
He's a true believer, but even he and Egon are pulling shit out of their ass when interviewing Dana (both of them mentioning Tobin's Spirit Guide and Spate's Catalog, both of which are esoteric occult works), and the Sedgwick Hotel bust doesn't happen long after that initial interview. And then Ray yells that he's carrying a Class 5 free-roaming vapor as he rushes out of the hotel.
Much like how Egon is pulling shit out of his ass when Venkman is describing the fees to the hotel manager, Ray is absolutely just pulling terms out of nowhere to sound like a pro even though they stumbled ass-backwards into trapping Onionhead and destroyed a ballroom in the process.
Yes. Several times, in surprisingly roughly-similar ways. The general holy grail is the RPG book, but both the video game and IDW comics have established roughly similar classifications as well.
Alot of the technology and what not has been largely fleshed out as well, in so far as what things are supposed to be doing.
They weren't even talking to Dana when they were talking about the "usual literature", they were talking to each other. They're dead serious about that. Is it absolutely, total nonsense even in-universe? Maybe? Although they are able to find relevant and correct information on Gozer, so they were apparently on the right track.
They have been studying this stuff for years. The classifications and what not are almost certainly made up by Ray, largely on the fly... but in the greater, expanded Ghostbusters lore they ARE codified things.
This is where i'll agree with you, but I think it was calculated on Egon's part. Venkmen... yes, he's spouting absolute bullshit at all times because that's what Venkman does. Egon is... a really smart guy, and wants to make money so he rolls along with Venkman.
Ray... Ray is like a little kid in a candy store and just super excited about catching ghosts. It's entirely possible the whole classification thing was just something of the scribblings of a mad man obsessed with ghosts, but they were... "real" and not exactly bullshit just made to sound smart. That's just outside of Ray's character.
He already had some of it down in the library, when he was just talking to the other guys. Was he trying to bullshit them too?
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Yeah, they weren't charging their normal rate there. They were charging their "rent is due tomorrow and we're hungry and flat broke" rate for that job.
Let's be real... that was their first actual outing and while incredibly booksmart, these guys are absolute madmen, each in their own way. Egon tried to drill a hole in his head. I'm pretty sure nobody actually sat down and hammered out "rates". If anything that was Venkman's job and... Venkman doesn't generally strike me as the "working" type.
I don't think it's "not charging their normal rate," because it's literally their first job, they haven't even figured out their rates, because, again, these are nuclear-powered hucksters. Their capital came from a third mortgage on Ray's house and clearly went into the containment unit and the proton packs / traps. Egon is just pulling numbers out of his ass for Venkman to sell to the hotel manager.
I think we can split the difference and call it "improvised guesstimated arse pulling" on Egon's part. Which is a sentence I didn't expect to have to type today . . .
As for the Aykroydisms and jargon; the only source I'm interested in hearing from on what they mean is Aykroyd himself. They all seem to have come from him, and as a real life true believer in a lot of this stuff, one has to imagine he's working from an actual system, even if it's just something he invented. He's certainly nerdy enough!
If I were to take any published source over any other; it'd probably be the video game, since we know he had at least some input on the jargon.
As for the Aykroydisms and jargon; the only source I'm interested in hearing from on what they mean is Aykroyd himself. They all seem to have come from him, and as a real life true believer in a lot of this stuff, one has to imagine he's working from an actual system, even if it's just something he invented. He's certainly nerdy enough!
If I were to take any published source over any other; it'd probably be the video game, since we know he had at least some input on the jargon.
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