Moments on TNG that make you cringe.

[Alexander Corrino]

It's interesting how a lot of people, even here (see the thread I linked), think Data is the real victim of the episode, not the poor girl who was used as a guinea pig in some kind of bizarre social experiment.

Edit: A great article on this episode that explains much better than I could what I want to say

“Men Who Hate Women”: In Theory

Oh no, not again.

I have to filet another Star Trek: The Next Generation sacred cow tonight. I hate doing this. But this one’s time is long, long overdue, ’cause “In Theory” is bad. Really bad. How bad? Well, in terms of gender, this is right down there in the same league as “Reunion”.

I think a lot of this has to do with how popular Data is and how he "can do nothing wrong". And Jenna, in contrast, isn't exactly popular, I've seen a lot of people calling her names for "using" Data (which is exactly what the episode intended - she's yet another female character who was written in a way that makes people go "ugh what an unpleasant woman"; TNG has a pattern there, just as much as it has a pattern of portraying female characters as stereotypes of either mothers or crazy stalkers/weirdos or sexy vamps or 'nerd girls'). Etc Etc. It's written by mostly men who projected their own weird dudebro ideas of what women are like on the female characters they came up with. But I guess this is a discussion for another day. Either way, "In Theory" is extremely cringeworthy, and the article there lists a lot of reasons as to why.

 

[Skipper]

I think a lot of this has to do with how popular Data is and how he "can do nothing wrong". And Jenna, in contrast, isn't exactly popular, I've seen a lot of people calling her names for "using" Data (which is exactly what the episode intended - she's yet another female character who was written in a way that makes people go "ugh what an unpleasant woman"; TNG has a pattern there, just as much as it has a pattern of portraying female characters as stereotypes of either mothers or crazy stalkers/weirdos or sexy vamps or 'nerd girls'). Etc Etc. It's written by mostly men who projected their own weird dudebro ideas of what women are like on the female characters they came up with. But I guess this is a discussion for another day. Either way, "In Theory" is extremely cringeworthy, and the article there lists a lot of reasons as to why.

I feel like reopening that thread, it was basically me against the rest of TrekBBS thinking the episode was problematic.

The big problem is that of course, on a superficial level, there's nothing that narratively says in flashing letters "WARNING WHAT DATA IS DOING IS WRONG!". Exactly like it happens with "Galaxy's Child". Geordie acts like a gaslighting creep, but since the script doesn't spell it out slowly and clearly, many think there's nothing wrong with his behavior.

 

[Oddish]

In "In Theory", Data was questionably advised at the start. Troi should have waffled a lot less, and told it like it is a lot more. Riker... don't get me started. And Picard at least was honest on the subject.

 

[JesterFace]

About Stewart's directorial debut 'In Theory', I think it's a nice episode until Riker gives the order "let's make a run for it".
Um, you're still in the nebula, what about those anomalies that make people fall through the floor, cause antimatter explosions and such.... Well, perhaps one should ignore that and enjoy the episode.

 

[D Man]

For some reason I love "Gambit" from S7, but Troi's big scene towards the beginning where she's yelling at Riker about grief and selfishness REALLY doesn't work. Sirtis admirably goes for *something*, but doesn't make the landing at all. Oh well, skip that scene and get to the point: a prototype of the Voyager "awesome TV movie of the week" concept. Should have aired as one 2-hour event during sweeps, big dumb action and at the end YAY FOR PEACE

 

[PoorSailorsAirline]

For some reason I love "Gambit" from S7, but Troi's big scene towards the beginning where she's yelling at Riker about grief and selfishness REALLY doesn't work. Sirtis admirably goes for *something*, but doesn't make the landing at all. Oh well, skip that scene and get to the point: a prototype of the Voyager "awesome TV movie of the week" concept. Should have aired as one 2-hour event during sweeps, big dumb action and at the end YAY FOR PEACE

I usually love Troi but had totally forgotten the "monopoly on grief" tantrum from Gambit. Maybe I'd just subconsciously blocked it? It's not delivering a 'who's-caring-for-the-carers?' inflection moment, it's giving me low-budget rom-com TV movie actor throwing plates and yelling a lot instead.

 

[donners22]

I find Rascals as a whole to be absolutely painful, but the scene with O’Brien and young Keiko is so uncomfortable that I cannot watch it.

More broadly, pretty much any Ferengi scene in TNG is cringeworthy. DS9 did an amazing job to salvage them.

 

[Oddish]

DS9 did an amazing job to salvage them.

It built a brilliant culture where everything was for sale, theft was business, and exploitation was expected... then proceeded to annihilate it.

 

[Farscape One]

Moments of TNG that make me cringe?

One springs immediately to mind... when two out-of-date Klingon Bird of Preys run by Ferengi defeat and take over the FEDERATION FLAGSHIP, a Galaxy class ship no less.

The crew were made to look REALLY moronic here. I just can never get past that. The Enterprise has been taken over before, but this was just ludicrous.

 

[Quantum21]

The Loss. The whole episode.

 

[Oddish]

The Loss. The whole episode.

A couple good quips in that one.

DATA: "A resumption of our present course at warp six will place us in the T'lli Beta system in six days, thirteen hours, forty seven minutes."
RIKER (sarcastically): "What, no seconds?"
DATA: "I have discovered, sir, a certain level of impatience when I calculate a lengthy time interval to the nearest second. However, if you wish..."
RIKER (quickly): "No, no. Minutes is fine."

And this one...

BEVERLY: "Therapists are always the worst patients. Except for doctors."

Rest of it was meh.

 

[Qonundrum]

I find Rascals as a whole to be absolutely painful, but the scene with O’Brien and young Keiko is so uncomfortable that I cannot watch it.

More broadly, pretty much any Ferengi scene in TNG is cringeworthy. DS9 did an amazing job to salvage them.

On one hand, kudos for the scripting even addressing the "bedtime activities"... on the other hand, they're doing it in a story that is so flipping risible - a takeover of the ship by two small ships pirated by a bunch of buffoons who even spell the biggest plot hole when demanding they take all the able-bodied adults to the transporter... was there even a token line of using the kiddies as slave labor?! No, that would give the Ferengi a greater sense of threat and they're already working on the Quark Comedy Hour over at DS9, and the only talk of slaves involved the adult crew and all them little energy-filled kiddies would make the mining faster. The episode is another example of TNG's turning to rot.

RIKER: I hope your profit margin's pretty high for this little adventure, because you're risking war with the Federation.
LURIN: We're not affiliated with the Ferengi Alliance. We are in business for ourselves. Yes, it will be highly profitable. For an investment of two surplus Klingon ships, a few repairs and some weapons, we've netted a Federation starship and her crew, not to mention a planet rich in vendarite.
RIKER: So that's what this is all about. What did you do with the science team that was on the surface?
LURIN: They have proved most helpful in extracting the mineral.
RIKER: You used them as slave labourers.
LURIN: The addition of your crew will greatly speed up the process. As for your ship, I'm sure that it will fetch a handsome price on the Romulan market. But before that can happen, we need to regain access to your central computer.
RIKER: You don't really think I'm going to help you.
LURIN: I think that the mines on Ligos Seven can be very hazardous. Now, how many people on your ship?
RIKER: One thousand fourteen.
LURIN: Very hazardous, Commander.​

and, earlier:

MORTA: This is Morta. We have secured the Bridge. Begin transporting all able-bodied adults to the surface.​

Emphasis added. No scene by the Ferengi addresses the kids as extra slaves, save for the overt ignoring of them for sheer plot contrivance. Indeed, even James Bond Jr Picard-Jr pretending to throw a tantrum to baby-daddy Riker there (would be him, wouldn't it!), and young-Guinan inspiring everyone to act like kids as a ruse. Even by 1992, this is pretty bad. Even by the standards seasons 5 and 6 had set. Sheesh, even most of the stumbling blocks season 1 had weren't this egregiously bad...

 

[WarpTenLizard]

"Sub Rosa" makes me cringe with embarrassment for the same reasons "Resolutions" on "Voyager" does. In these two episodes Jeri Taylor filled all the worst stereotypes of female authors. Romance is fine when it's written well, but Taylor was like a proto-Stephanie Meyer.

 

[SpockOfNine]

The outfit Riker was forced to wear in Angel One.

 

[JamesRye]

Joe whatever his name was in the Outrageous Okona, Data in Drag in Fistful of Datas, all of Rascals. The Symbiosis drug speech. Yeah, and most of season 1.

 

[Orphalesion]

Lots of things, it's a very dated show by now.
But a stand-out for me is Troi complaining about the dialogue in the fictional novel in The Royale.

"I don't believe this dialogue. Did humans really talk like that?"

Gee, I dunno Dee-Dee. Did any human being ever talk like you and your fellow crewmates for most in Seasons 1 and 2?

Point is...if you make fun of bad dialogue, it's not that effective if your show has had quite bad dialogue up until that point :-P

 

[Skipper]

Lots of things, it's a very dated show by now.
But a stand-out for me is Troi complaining about the dialogue in the fictional novel in The Royale.

"I don't believe this dialogue. Did humans really talk like that?"

Gee, I dunno Dee-Dee. Did any human being ever talk like you and your fellow crewmates for most in Seasons 1 and 2?

Point is...if you make fun of bad dialogue, it's not that effective if your show has had quite bad dialogue up until that point :-P

I didn't remember that! Regardless of the quality, if I read an 18th century book I would never say something so stupid.

 

[Herbert]

I'm with Starfleet sir, we don't lie.

A lot of people complain about this line but it's just an enthusiastic, if somewhat naive, response from a proud youngster. Not all that surprising really.

 

[JesterFace]

Lots of things, it's a very dated show by now.

opinions....
Here's one, I think TNG has survived the test of time quite well.
The very beginning of the series.... maybe not that well but from season 3 and beyond TNG doesn't feel too old, at least not for me.
Feels like the series was made at exactly the right time, enough CGI effects but not too much like many series these days have. The sets look just fine to this day but that's also an opinion.
I'm also glad Enterprise-D was made with a real model.

 

[Orphalesion]

opinions....
Here's one, I think TNG has survived the test of time quite well.
The very beginning of the series.... maybe not that well but from season 3 and beyond TNG doesn't feel too old, at least not for me.
Feels like the series was made at exactly the right time, enough CGI effects but not too much like many series these days have. The sets look just fine to this day but that's also an opinion.
I'm also glad Enterprise-D was made with a real model.

Not so much talking CGI, I just feel the culture portrayed in the series and the way it was is quite dated by now. Which is not surprising considering it's approaching it's 40 anniversary.