Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x10 - "Hegemony"

[Sci]

As soon as the comm blocker went down, I'm sure the Gorn was able to detect transporter activity between the Enterprise and the planet, so they likely considered that "crossing the line."

Probably not even that. They probably figured out that the Enterprise crew had sent the Cuyaga's saucer down to their transmission point and considered that to be crossing the line.

 

[Farscape One]

Probably not even that. They probably figured out that the Enterprise crew had sent the Cuyaga's saucer down to their transmission point and considered that to be crossing the line.

That's another possibility, given their intelligence. Perhaps they realized the Gorn that was on the Cayuga's saucer was killed beforehand. (Though that still means they crossed over the line they sent and was trying to break into a Starfleet ship's database.)

 

[thribs]

I can’t believe they are doing Scotty before Welshy.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Seems familar. Were they the ones descended from Earth dinosaurs?

Yup.

There was a star caravan going all the way to the Delta Quadrant 65 million years ago, but if some of these earth Dinosaurs ditched the main group early, only a few dozen light years from Earth, and called themselves The Gorn, well, the Small Universe consequences are clearly apparent.

 

[Macintosh]

I always found it interesting when people talk about life support being off, there's this idea that it instantly becomes deadly to be in those areas, when life support shutting down just means there will be no new support given in that area. What oxygen and heat remains will still be there for a while. A ship the size of the Enterprise would have oxygen and heat for hours before there would be any real danger.

One of the things about Star Trek that bugs me is that it consistently shows life support failure to mean a) the ship getting too cold and b) a lack of oxygen asphyxiating the crew. Both of these are inaccurate aboard a spacecraft.

First, the temperature. A spaceship cannot easily lose heat. It's in the vacuum of space. We're all familiar with thermos flasks keeping things warm (or cold) by insulating the contents with a vacuum. Spacecraft can only lose heat by radiation, which is very inefficient compared to convection or conduction.This is why the space shuttle always had its cargo bay doors open in space – the inside of the doors were its life support radiators. Starships in Star Trek seem to have magic technology that somehow means they don't need large radiators to cool themselves despite the extraordinary energies released by warp cores and impulse reactors, but either way, if life support fails the crew are going to bake, not freeze.

Second, oxygen. If we take the Enterprise-D, even excluding its nacelles and assuming 25% of the remaining volume doesn't contain atmosphere – machinery, structure, deuterium storage etc – we're still looking at a total atmospheric volume of around 4 million cubic metres, and assuming she maintains a similar atmospheric composition to Earth around 800,000 cubic metres of that will be oxygen. A human needs around 0.5 cubic metres of oxygen a day, which means the Enterprise-D holds enough air for its crew of 1,014 people to breathe oxygen for about two years. That's without emergency oxygen supplies etc etc etc. Lack of oxygen isn't the problem. The build-up of carbon dioxide is, because that can rapidly become toxic even if there's still plenty of oxygen. The issue isn't that you can't get oxygen in to your body, the issue is that you can't get carbon dioxide out. But the Enterprise-D is still vast – assuming people are breathing normally it'd take around twelve weeks for carbon dioxide to build up to toxic levels, though without ventilation it could happen much quicker on a room-by-room basis.

TL;DR – if life support fails, you don't freeze and run out of oxygen. You cook and choke on carbon dioxide.

 

[Guy Gardener]

One of the things about Star Trek that bugs me is that it consistently shows life support failure to mean a) the ship getting too cold and b) a lack of oxygen asphyxiating the crew. Both of these are inaccurate aboard a spacecraft.

First, the temperature. A spaceship cannot easily lose heat. It's in the vacuum of space. We're all familiar with thermos flasks keeping things warm (or cold) by insulating the contents with a vacuum. Spacecraft can only lose heat by radiation, which is very inefficient compared to convection or conduction.This is why the space shuttle always had its cargo bay doors open in space – the inside of the doors were its life support radiators. Starships in Star Trek seem to have magic technology that somehow means they don't need large radiators to cool themselves despite the extraordinary energies released by warp cores and impulse reactors, but either way, if life support fails the crew are going to bake, not freeze.

Second, oxygen. If we take the Enterprise-D, even excluding its nacelles and assuming 25% of the remaining volume doesn't contain atmosphere – machinery, structure, deuterium storage etc – we're still looking at a total atmospheric volume of around 4 million cubic metres, and assuming she maintains a similar atmospheric composition to Earth around 800,000 cubic metres of that will be oxygen. A human needs around 0.5 cubic metres of oxygen a day, which means the Enterprise-D holds enough air for its crew of 1,014 people to breathe oxygen for about four years. That's without emergency oxygen supplies etc etc etc. Lack of oxygen isn't the problem. The build-up of carbon dioxide is, because that can rapidly become toxic even if there's still plenty of oxygen. The issue isn't that you can't get oxygen in to your body, the issue is that you can't get carbon dioxide out. But the Enterprise-D is still vast – assuming people are breathing normally it'd take around twelve weeks for carbon dioxide to build up to toxic levels, though without ventilation it could happen much quicker on a room-by-room basis.

TL;DR – if life support fails, you don't freeze and run out of oxygen. You cook and choke on carbon dioxide.

Well, at least no one goes hungry.

 

[Noname Given]

I forgot to mention about the line.

The Enterprise never crossed it. Yet the Gorn fired on her repeatedly at the end. They were going against the line they themselves sent to Starfleet. It shows they are not very trustworthy.

The Gorn probably saw the crash of the Saucer section into their Jamming tower as engineered by the 1701 crew: and once sensors were working, you can be sure they noticed the 1701 beaming up some of their crew back to the ship from the area where the Cayuga Saucer had been, (And the Gorn that Spock attacked on the Cayuga Bridge may have had comms to his ship); and Pike and Scotty from the surface.
^^^
Once all that was detected, the Feds were caught red handed 'crossing the Gorn line'.

 

[UssGlenn]

An early TOS episode ("The Corbomite Maneuver"?) does mention emergency batteries so this could very well be a thing.

Wrath of Khan mentions batteries as well, they kick in when auxiliary power fails.

That's not supported by what we saw in the episode.
Remember, the Enterprise crew came in late to the Metorn's transmission.
Only Kirk makes mention of the name and he does so in such a way that can be interpreted to fit what we now know.

The Metrons called it a Gorn, but it doesn't exactly fit the description that Kirk is aware of in SNW.

The Metrons mention the Gorn by name just before they abduct Kirk from the Bridge. McCoy mentions them by name later as well.

 

[Tallguy]

The Metrons mention the Gorn by name just before they abduct Kirk from the Bridge. McCoy mentions them by name later as well.

So all this talk about "Maybe they just don't recognize THIS Gorn" is nonsense. Before they even see that it's just a guy in a rubber suit Uhura and Spock are told that this is a Gorn ship and the Gorn have used pretty much the same tactics of entrapment that had been used against them personally six or seven years ago.

 

[Amaris]

One of the things about Star Trek that bugs me is that it consistently shows life support failure to mean a) the ship getting too cold and b) a lack of oxygen asphyxiating the crew. Both of these are inaccurate aboard a spacecraft.

First, the temperature. A spaceship cannot easily lose heat. It's in the vacuum of space. We're all familiar with thermos flasks keeping things warm (or cold) by insulating the contents with a vacuum. Spacecraft can only lose heat by radiation, which is very inefficient compared to convection or conduction.This is why the space shuttle always had its cargo bay doors open in space – the inside of the doors were its life support radiators. Starships in Star Trek seem to have magic technology that somehow means they don't need large radiators to cool themselves despite the extraordinary energies released by warp cores and impulse reactors, but either way, if life support fails the crew are going to bake, not freeze.

Second, oxygen. If we take the Enterprise-D, even excluding its nacelles and assuming 25% of the remaining volume doesn't contain atmosphere – machinery, structure, deuterium storage etc – we're still looking at a total atmospheric volume of around 4 million cubic metres, and assuming she maintains a similar atmospheric composition to Earth around 800,000 cubic metres of that will be oxygen. A human needs around 0.5 cubic metres of oxygen a day, which means the Enterprise-D holds enough air for its crew of 1,014 people to breathe oxygen for about two years. That's without emergency oxygen supplies etc etc etc. Lack of oxygen isn't the problem. The build-up of carbon dioxide is, because that can rapidly become toxic even if there's still plenty of oxygen. The issue isn't that you can't get oxygen in to your body, the issue is that you can't get carbon dioxide out. But the Enterprise-D is still vast – assuming people are breathing normally it'd take around twelve weeks for carbon dioxide to build up to toxic levels, though without ventilation it could happen much quicker on a room-by-room basis.

TL;DR – if life support fails, you don't freeze and run out of oxygen. You cook and choke on carbon dioxide.

Hey.

Hey.

I like my Star Trek the same way I like my coffee: dark, and free of science.

 

[Chovak]

One *especially* needs to know all the minute details like a Gorn's exact lifecycle and their adaptability to the vacuum of space and the amount of intel the TOS crew have about them, or the episode might really try them. Meh. I don't need more explanation, the Klingon DS9/ENT explanation was already too much, even back then.

Give me good characterization and good scripts and I'm OK.
Have meaningful and non-bleak emotional overarching character stories play out for the SNW-established pairs. Do not make those slave to the archaic TOS literal continuity.
Have the characters realize and apply some TNGesque moral lessons, but make the process more gritty and period-appropriate. That would be my preference.

 

[Racefuel]

So all this talk about "Maybe they just don't recognize THIS Gorn" is nonsense. Before they even see that it's just a guy in a rubber suit Uhura and Spock are told that this is a Gorn ship and the Gorn have used pretty much the same tactics of entrapment that had been used against them personally six or seven years ago.

Or SNW is electing to not be bound to "Arenas" framework and is just introducing the Gorn earlier and more prominently

 

[Dar70]

I can’t believe they are doing Scotty before Welshy.

I thought Welshy was Scotty's short term replacement....??? So we should see him in the events just before the motion picture.

 

[Tallguy]

Or SNW is electing to not be bound to "Arenas" framework and is just introducing the Gorn earlier and more prominently

Just so.

It doesn't fit. It's not an accident. And it's not because they couldn't possibly watch all of the countless episodes with all the tangled continuity... THE episode that featured the Gorn. They took the name and kept the fact that they're reptilian and sneaky ambushing underhanded types. And then watched Alien on a loop.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Just so.

It doesn't fit. It's not an accident. And it's not because they couldn't possibly watch all of the countless episodes with all the tangled continuity... THE episode that featured the Gorn. They took the name and kept the fact that they're reptilian and sneaky ambushing underhanded types. And then watched Alien on a loop.

They watched it and put their own spin on the species. It's happened time and time again
TNG took the Klingons further and further away from the Soviet stand ins they were in TOS.
ENT took a basically one off alien, the Andorians and built something new out of them. (No ice powers though)
Then there's the Vulcans. Cold, logical, science forward yet somehow with a mystical aura full of weird psi-rituals. Not sure that was in cards on day one.

 

[Amaris]

I think Vulcans were stand-ins for the various Asian continental ethnicities and cultures, and the stereotypes that were (and still are) present at the time, which included their high intelligence, efficient mannerisms, and the pseudo-mystic ancient secrets stuff that was very popular in the 1960s. Gene had a big thing for Japan back then.

 

[Noname Given]

So all this talk about "Maybe they just don't recognize THIS Gorn" is nonsense. Before they even see that it's just a guy in a rubber suit Uhura and Spock are told that this is a Gorn ship and the Gorn have used pretty much the same tactics of entrapment that had been used against them personally six or seven years ago.

Yeah, no one in Trek has mistaken a race they know well...oh, wait...

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(And before you bring up any 'it was a joke' rationalizations, this episode WAS in Trek continuity. - and don't try to claim "Klingons never were supposed to look like they did in TOS" - you can cite the production reasons all you like, but the various types on Klingon appearance are ALL canon/within continuity.)

 

[Nerys Myk]

I think Vulcans were stand-ins for the various Asian continental ethnicities and cultures, and the stereotypes that were (and still are) present at the time, which included their high intelligence, efficient mannerisms, and the pseudo-mystic ancient secrets stuff that was very popular in the 1960s. Gene had a big thing for Japan back then.

Oh yes. There was a heavy dose of "Orientalism" in the Vulcans. If Earth was America, Vulcan was Japan.
In the movies they went all "Robes". Sarek and the Vulcans we see in Journey To Babel sport a nice future formal suit with a slight Asian flare. No robes in Amok Time either. Vulcans of that era loved silver though. Then in the movies is all about robes like they were in The Name of the Rose or something.

 

[fireproof78]

So all this talk about "Maybe they just don't recognize THIS Gorn" is nonsense. Before they even see that it's just a guy in a rubber suit Uhura and Spock are told that this is a Gorn ship and the Gorn have used pretty much the same tactics of entrapment that had been used against them personally six or seven years ago.

Except, the text of Arena states that this is an "unknown ship." They are not told anything until after Kirk is taken.

The data points, such that they are, are quite limited from that episode. We are taking one encounter and generalizing it to an entire interstellar civilization and that they must all behave the same.

 

[UssGlenn]

. If Earth was America, Vulcan was Japan.

That would track with the "Vulcan was conquered" bit from McCoy. Defeated enemy to ally.