• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x08 - "Under the Cloak of War"

Hit it!


  • Total voters
    222
I think this is basically a DS9 "Anti-Trek" story. Which is the fact that we have a scenario about a man who committed war crimes and we assume it'll end with his story being that he's sincere in his redemption and M'Benga reluctantly forgiving him.

But no, Rah ****ed up and he knew he didn't have a place back home in the Klingon Empire so he decided to join the Federation and throw his men under the buss.

And it's probably better M'Benga killed him.

I wonder if Rah knew that if he provoked M'Benga enough, it would lead to his own demise... and that was his end goal. Maybe he knew (or suspected) who M'Benga was before coming on the ship in the first place. (As in, researched the crew after he learned which ship would be transporting him.) Could he think that he would be martyred after being assassinated by a Starfleet officer (a la suicide by cop?) Did he see his death as the only way to resolve/absolve his guilt?
 
I wonder if Rah knew that if he provoked M'Benga enough, it would lead to his own demise... and that was his end goal. Maybe he knew (or suspected) who M'Benga was before coming on the ship in the first place. (As in, researched the crew after he learned which ship would be transporting him.) Could he think that he would be martyred after being assassinated by a Starfleet officer (a la suicide by cop?) Did he see his death as the only way to resolve/absolve his guilt?
I didn’t sense a tortured soul under the smiling exterior. If that’s what he was trying to convey, it was too subtle for me.
 
From TNG through Voyager there was a logic to the Stardates, 1000 units was a year (well a show's season) with SD 41000 being TNG S1.

SNW is just throwing a number out there without any real logic to it, like they did in TOS. How about reading my whole post? JTFC, people can't say *anything* outside of doration and praise, can they. All I said was that not giving a specific timeframe in the flashback was odd and they could have just put some random number up there and let the audience take from context it was the past.

I didn't say it was a massive, negative, thing impacting my episode ( I made a point of saying I wad LIKING the episode!) it was just an observation.

Stand down, Vice Admiral.

I'm perfectly calm, thank you.
 
Not to turn this much into a TNZ post I guess, right now a war basically between NATO and the Russians is being fought with drones and missile strikes. Entire Russian positions are being taken out by drone pilots flying 100 dollar drops with grenades strapped to them, armor being destroyed with HIMARs and artillery strikes from miles away.
Like I said before, "Man & Machine". Not "Man or Machine".

You need to pair both to get the best effective use out of both.

Also, Ukraine has a personnel problem, they're outnumbered significantly in terms of man power compared to Russia. So they can't afford to risk lives and throw people into the grinder like Russia has done.

Ukraine is fighting Smart, Russia is using it's one natural advantage, man-power.

It's going to end up destroying Russia's future because Putin is dumb.

Yes troops are going to be used to control or retake territory, but there's a reason why the Ukrainians are asking for more jets and missiles and advanced tech, not for more boots on the ground. They want the advanced tech because that's what is required for a conventional battle. And that's before even considering asymmetrical warfare and how large occupation forces don't work either.
As with remote control tech, it maximizes damage, minimizes casualties on your side.
It's the smart way to fight when you have a home field advantage and want to minimize loss on your side.
That's before we even get to guerilla warfare.

it seems wild to me that in a future where there are likely full AI drones, even more weapons of mass destruction and also weapons that can be much more targeted like phasers, that you'd send in hundreds of thousands of troops to occupy a planet. Even the logistics of doing that alone are kind of wild - Google says a Galaxy class ship can hold anywhere from 10,000 to 100,000 people. I have no idea if they have ships of that size in the TOS era, but I assume Constitution class ships would hold much less. How many ships would you need to dedicate to basically launch D-day style invasions/defences of planets across the front?
IMO, in the future 1x Organic Soldier should be out in the field remote commanding 12x "Data / EMH level" Combat droids.
He'll have 2x Droids with him at all times to watch his back, but he'll be out in the field command and controlling a full 12x unit Fire Squad that works in pairs.

So imagine for every 10,000 Organic Soldiers, you have 120,000 Combat Droids on the offensive with 20,000 on Defense for a total of 150,000 Soldiers in total.

Now imagine that's for only 1x Galaxy Class sized ship.

Imagine what a 1000+ Fleet of ships, each one filled with soldiers would do.

1,000+ Ships with 150,000 Soldiers each. 150,000,000 Soldiers spread over a entire planet covering at least 1,000+ battle fields or cities or important areas, taking over key infrastructure / supplies / HVT's (Highly Valued Targets).

That's just 1x Fleet, imagine when you have millions of Fleets in all of StarFleet.

After Vietnam and Afghanistan, I think the idea of sending large occupation forces to sit on a location for decades is presumably never going to be repeated again. Or at least I'd hope people at the various military colleges out there realize that fighting a war like WW2 doesn't make any sense in 2023... let alone 2223.
The main issue with Afghanistan was that the local culture didn't have a sense of National Identity. They're very much a rural / tribal people in nature.

Unlike Japan after WW2 or Korea, those people have "National Identity" and wanted to remain a unified country.

Vietnam was handed over to the locals, they couldn't hold the line 2 years after and needed to be evacuated.

If you watched any of the interviews with the Vietnamnese General Minh, they were "Very Close to Surrendering" after some of the massive bombing campaigns, but the US let up and they were able to survive becuse the US internal political issues back home forced the White House to give up applying pressure in Vietnam due to the political back-lash. That's what allowed them to survive and re-build their forces so that 2x years after the US left, they had enough forces to take over the rest of the country.


Hell, in the context of DS9, the Bajorans proved that large scale occupation doesn't work if you have a people fanatical enough to fight an asymmetrical war to drive out occupiers - because they have access to technology that renders large groups of troops ineffective.
It's not so much that, it's more the unity of the people and the willingness to fight the invaders to the bitter end.

But like, I also understand why you want to use those tropes. Because people have WW2 and Vietnam in mind, at least in an American/Western context, so it's easy to evoke that imagery of doctors on a war front patching up soldiers constantly being dropped off.
Local improvised Medical Hospitals will always be a thing in a war zone.

Like I'm not expecting The Expanse from Star Trek... I get that it's a total different thing, which is why for me it's a nitpick rather than something that ruins the episode (and basically most of DS9) for me.
To me, the local improvised Medical Hospital made perfect sense in a "War Zone".
 
My take was the simpler "Rah didn't realize M'Benga knew the truth and at the end was trying to get him to believe he's reformed so he doesn't squeal."
He was definitely weasel enough for that. He doesn’t seem like he’d get as far in the Klingon command structure as he did.
 
Possibly but preferred death by enemy then by suicide.

Though he seemed too smarmy and self assured to be super conflicted.
He honestly reminded me of some of the popular Christian converts I knew that would go from church to church giving their testimony. They talked all about peace, and love, and forgiveness, but never really made amends for what they did to people before they became "saved."

They had no intentions of ever making actual amends, just finding the most comfortable way to stay away from that past and simply not deal with it.

So here we have a man who did horrible, brutal, vile things, and then slipped away and defected. His past sins were forgiven in the name of fostering good will with the Federation and being used as a propaganda tool. It kind of goes back to my Wernher von Braun example earlier.

The US essentially said "sure, von Braun, you used concentration camp slave labor to build your rockets, you designed increasingly deadlier weapons for the Nazi regime, and millions of people died as a result, but since you surrendered to us and offered us a terrific leveraging tool, we'll talk about how the past is the past and we need to move forward."

Now, is the Federation as cynical and ambitious as 20th century United States? I don't know, but since Star Trek is often an allegory for better understanding humanity in our modern era, the comparison could be made, I think, for the purposes of this narrative.

Just my two bits, though.
 
Really, really liked this one. My only quibble is the Klingons being TNG-style when the "previously on" used clips of Discovery. And that's minor.

M'Benga is basically Star Trek's John Wick.
 
M’Benga is never the CMO on TOS, he’s just another doctor in a couple of episodes.

Fair enough and true but my point to the other poster still stands. M'Benga didn't need to "earn" the right to appear in the older series. He just did. Appearing and just exisitng "earned" him whatever he has in those episodes. He's a fictional character. His accomplishments, relationships and value are whatever he's written to have.
 
Dude, I'm asking a "what if" question as if I were a Fed investigator investigating the incident.

He probably had other belongings that were brought on board with him at a different time since he was going to be on the ship for a few days. Assuming he had some suitcase equivalents they may not have the technology to determine whether he had that particular knife. They may not even have the technology to determine if he would have had the knife on him.
 
The way La'an looked at Pike after Chapel said there was no way to know what goes in anyone's heart seemed to say something. Whether I was just reading into it or not, I don't know, but it felt like she knew there was more, but kept silent anyway.
 
The 2 best characters/actors of the show so I was always gonna like this episode.
Add to that my love of M.A.S.H and it also reminding me of the best episode of Band of Brothers and an amazing episode of DS9.

The only let down was the end that I felt was just a little too much.
 
What does that say abut the federation when you have someone responsible for the deaths of thousands, and you make him your equal with no repercussions. That tells me that the deaths mean little to the federation and that life is so cheap that those at the top don’t really care how many ensigns and civilians get killed, as long as they at the top get the results the want.

This episode was not a good look for the federation or Pike.
 
Ortegas's reasons for not liking Dak'Rah are also pretty shallow - she just comes across as being a racist; M'Benga (and, to a lesser extent, Chapel) had a reason for personal animus.

Part of it was racism since she didn't think it was possible for a Klingon to believe in peace but part of it was also due to Dak'Rah's reputation. It's like if someone, shortly after WWII, had a hard time believing a Nazi general who committed atrocities really believed in peace.
 
I feel like they had a hard time deciding what the tone of this episode was supposed to be. Having a peace loving Klingon who is nicknamed “the butcher” is an interesting choice. The flashbacks I thought were well done, however I thought the reveal that M’Benga was the assassin who killed the Klingon high ranking officers was kind of forced. I really wished they would have pushed more about how having the ambassador aboard was dividing the crew and showed those tensions. Given that we know Klingon ships show up in the next episode I wonder if that’s fallout from this incident.

How do we know Klingon ships show up next week? Next week is the musical episode. Now I hope we get some Klingon honor songs!
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top