Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x03 - "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow"

[Noname Given]

Though I generally don't mind that Trek was traditionally on the slower-paced side ... yeah, that was kind of riduculous.

Along with the TNG bridge scenes that were like "Captain, they are firing on us." "Well, Mr. Worf, perhaps we should let this situation play out and see what happens. Earl Grey, anyone?"

Don't get me started on Picard's response to being fired on tactics. If you watch the show, Picard only ever returns fire AFTER enemy fire has dropped the Enterprise's shields, or a volley of enemy fire has damaged the ship. I can't see why anyone would want to serve with a man who is willing to lose 18 people before he bothers the fire back at an enemy that's been threatening him and firing on him multiple times.

 

[UssGlenn]

And then they keep the same weapons set for 210 years. I know fighting isn't Starfleet's preferred method of problem solving, but that's like our troops today using breech loading single shot rifles

This assumes that photonic torpedoes are exactly the same thing as photon torpedoes.
This like assuming breech loading rifles and M-16 rifles are the same because of the word "rifle".

Well if we consider spacial torpedoes equivalent to musket balls and photonic torpedoes equivalent to first rimfire metalic cartridge (1845), it makes a bit more sense. That's 178 years since the modern form factor. Then in 1882 the modern copper jacket bullet (photon torpedo) was invented, 141 years with no end in sight.

 

[Aeolusdallas]

L'aan makes an offhand remark as Kirk moves to steal a car. "This is private property." Now, the implication is that Kirk does not understand this coming from a more advanced society where perhaps an AI computer controls all transportation? Picard tells us "there is no money" so he is growing grapes and making wine at the government's behest and then it is distributed probably via a social credit system. So is Sisko's dad. No wonder there is no crime. No one would dare would they? One false move, and the nanny state cuts your access to your social credits which they control. The AI no doubt reads all communications like Google's AI "reads" all your emails. This is fascism with a velvet glove. Freedom is an illusion they create as they control every aspect of your life. It's all "for the common good." I would leave Earth immediately if I were trapped there but perhaps there is no ship available for the non elites. Very few humans seem to have escaped this. Even colonies work on this system.

That's kind of a bizarre take on the federation.

 

[Aeolusdallas]

At the auto repair shop i work at, I am constantly surprised at the how many people still carry cash on hand to pay for repairs to their vehicle.

Just the other day a repair bill was close to $1500 and the customer pulled out her purse and counted out five $100 and the rest in $50s.

Some are also undocumented workers with no bank accounts, so their employer pays them in cash or 'under the table'.

So why would paying for cash for a hotel room be so difficult to conceptualize?

Because almost no hotel permits it

 

[The Wormhole]

And it's still bugging me why the uptime DTI (side note: This is the 29th century, shouldn't that be the Temporal Integrity Commission?) didn't actually wipe La'an's mind...

Why would they wipe her mind? La'an didn't learn anything about her own personal future, therefore there's no reason to wipe her mind. Same reason Ducane gave at the end of Relativity for why he wasn't going to wipe Janeway or Seven's minds.

And I'd say there's enough ambiguity about the nature of the 29th century to explain why the DTI were involved as opposed to the Temporal Integrity Commission. As suggested above, maybe there's a name change at some point between when these people are from and when Relativity is from. Or maybe the Temporal Integrity Commission is the military side of temporal matters and DTI is the intelligence side. Or maybe the Temporal Integrity Commission is the name of the overall division which handles temporal matters with Relativity's Timefleet and the DTI being subordinate organizations within their umbrella. Like how Enterprise retconned Starfleet as being under UESPA's umbrella. Or TIC/DTI could just be interchangeable names for the same organization, as was apparently the original intent during TOS to explain why Kirk would answer to Starfleet one week and UESPA the next and Space Central the next. There's all kinds of possible reasons.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Why would they wipe her mind?

Why NOT? It would absolutely ensure that La'an would never reveal anything about what happened.

Look at it from the DTI's perspective. Why should they trust her to not reveal anything simply because she was ordered to? She could disobey that order, or accidentally blurt something out without realizing. Wiping her mind is the only guaranteed method to ensure that she doesn't say anything.

It worked in "Relativity", didn't it?

 

[Tuskin38]

It worked in "Relativity", didn't it?

They didn't wipe Janeway's or Seven's mind.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

They didn't wipe Janeway's or Seven's mind.

Oops, my bad. I thought they did. But Ducane does say that they don't.

 

[Commander Troi]

What if future La'an blabs about her mission to someone, so the DTI sends the Gorn to her family to wipe out everyone but her to protect the timeline and send her a clear message about the consequences of blabbing? And then they wipe her mind.

Damn, that's dark man!

I think at that point in TOS's production, the intended backstory was that Earth had indeed conquered Vulcan -- or, rather, Vulcanis -- at some point. Obviously that backstory changed and the idea was never referenced again

What episode was that in? I've got no memory of this.

 

[The Wormhole]

Oops, my bad. I thought they did. But Ducane does say that they don't.

Did you even read my full post when I quoted it? I stated Ducane said there was no need to wipe Janeway and Seven's minds because they never learned anything about their own personal futures. Here's the quote from the episode itself:

DUCANE: You'll both be returned to your time frame. You'll be reintegrated with the other Seven of Nine. Since none of your time jumps were to your foreseeable future, only the past, I see no reason to resequence your memory engrams. But remember the Temporal Prime Directive. Discuss your experiences with no one.

Emphasis mine. Since La'an did not learn anything about her own personal future, there is no reason per 29th century protocol to erase her mind. Seriously, this is an example of the episode following pre-established Canon, and you're still crying foul? Modern Star Trek shows literally can't do anything right, they contradict Canon, someone cries that Canon should be respected. They follow Canon, someone cries that the policies being enacted don't make sense. I'm beginning to think Trek Fandom cares less about Canon and more about the presumed right to complain.

 

[DEWLine]

We care about all of the above to varying degrees, of course...including that right to complain.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm beginning to think Trek Fandom cares less about Canon and more about the presumed right to complain

I belive so. At the very least canon overrides good story and right to complain is most important.

If not, well, it definitely takes up the bulk of debate.

 

[ichab]

The 2002 version of THE TWILIGHT ZONE had Katherine Heigl deal with the issue... and the parents ended up finding another baby instead. Very likely causing the very thing they were trying to stop.

I remember that one. One of the few good original episodes in the Forest Whitaker version of TZ.

 

[AlanC9]

Why NOT? It would absolutely ensure that La'an would never reveal anything about what happened.

Look at it from the DTI's perspective. Why should they trust her to not reveal anything simply because she was ordered to? She could disobey that order, or accidentally blurt something out without realizing. Wiping her mind is the only guaranteed method to ensure that she doesn't say anything.

It worked in "Relativity", didn't it?

Can't the DTI just look forward in the timeline and see that she didn't actually reveal anything?

 

[Captain Jollydark]

That's kind of a bizarre take on the federation.

So very bizarre. So much so that I was a little afraid to engage the poster.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Can't the DTI just look forward in the timeline and see that she didn't actually reveal anything?

It doesn't matter.

Whatever she does is what makes the future what the future is.

 

[Captain Jollydark]

Also what the heck happened to kyle? Hes gone akesdy.

The actor got another gig. So I heard.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Adam Soong was already working on project Khan when we meet him.

Had an epiphany.

Kahn has seven siblings just as superb as he is, who grew up together, and whatever animosity the kept from childhood, blew up into a World War, or...

There were two Project Khans.

The original Noonian Singh type Supermen, and then Adam Soong's Supermen, and it's these two flavours of Supermen who went to war as they both thought it necessary to lead, but saw the other group of augments as less than, and were unwilling to share.

Noonian is a defector?

Or Nooonian was married to both Adam Soong and "Someone" Singh?

Bigamy?

The Supermen were Mormon?

As for bigamy in Sikhism -- there are two ways to look at this.

When bigamy is permitted on the physical plane by law (borrowing from drkhalsa ji here) then a Sikh has a legal opening to have more than one wife. But today the Rehit Maryada explicitly forbids that. Will it come as a surprise to know that both Guru Arjan Dev and Guru Gobind Singh had two wives? And the Sikh maharjas had harems and they were Sikhs.

Or Sikh, apparently?

 

[Macintosh]

What episode was that in? I've got no memory of this.

It's implied in TOS: "The Conscience of the King":

Spock: "My father's race was spared the dubious benefits of alcohol."
McCoy: "Now I know why they were conquered."

The writer's intent was that Vulcan was indeed a vassal world of Earth. Roddenberry, of course, did not care for this at all.

However, later in TOS: "The Immunity Syndrome":

Spock: "Vulcan has not been conquered within its collective memory. The memory goes back so far that no Vulcan can conceive of a conqueror."

 

[matthunter]

It's implied in TOS: "The Conscience of the King":

Spock: "My father's race was spared the dubious benefits of alcohol."
McCoy: "Now I know why they were conquered."

The writer's intent was that Vulcan was indeed a vassal world of Earth. Roddenberry, of course, did not care for this at all.

However, later in TOS: "The Immunity Syndrome":

Spock: "Vulcan has not been conquered within its collective memory. The memory goes back so far that no Vulcan can conceive of a conqueror."

Of course, canon on this is a mess. Even the "spared the dubious benefits of alcohol" line goes out the window with Quark offering to split a vintage bottle of Vulcan port with Sakonna in the Maquis eps.