Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x03 - "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow"

[daedalus5]

10. Great acting. I want to visit Toronto! Loved the revolving door but, and matching biker outfits. Great premise, nice to see Khan, loved the Romulan ship, just a shame there wasn’t a tip of the hat to a photo of Tuvok from the 1990s, or Gabriel Bell etc. am loving this series. Proper Star Trek imo.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Well, that time travel ban sure didn't last long.

Time Travel is an omnipresent binary.

Either it's allowed forever or it's disallowed forever.

Due to the nature of Time Travel, that's the only way it can work, because the people in the past and future won't care if people in the present try to say "Well you can't do that it's illegal!" They'll just do it anyways and the people in the present won't have any way to stop them.

At which point the people in the present cease to exist because they gave up their Time Travel technology which is needed to protect them from actions taken by people in the past/future.

No one told Starfleet prior to the 31st Century they couldn't time travel.

 

[CaptainWacky]

Christina Chong is great. The episode was pretty good. Meandered a bit in the middle (the whole trip to see Pelia felt like it was there just because it's the kind of thing that happens in Star Trek episodes) but Chong made it work with her acting at the end. Paul Wesley was okay. Doesn't feel like Kirk but worked well enough in the episode.

I don't care about the changes to Khan lore.

 

[Nerys Myk]

He doesn't need to be the focus of every episode, especially since there are so many talented actors who are also on the show that a single episode can focus on. It's not the Pike show, it's about the crew of the Enterprise.

I'd rather have Mount get to take off an episode so he can spend time with his family instead of leaving the show early because he isn't spending enough time with his family.

Pretty sure someone (Henry?) said they wrote around Mount's need to be with his new born.

 

[Ogrebear]

Watched ep3

It was good but with caveats.

Spock's practice causing noise complaints was amusing.
La'an does not summon help for the chap dying on the deck?
Chucking away uniforms ok - guess the Discovery comm-badges don't exist anymore heh?
Clever way to make money there Kirk! Good use of chess.
Neat "this is New York" "no, it is Toronto" meta joke given how much the city stands in for NYC.

Why does La'an not just have a flat out 'why is Earth so devastated?' conversation with Kirk when he started mentioning what a crapsack planet Earth has become?

How much money did Kirk make playing chess to be able to afford that hotel room? There are some 10's in the cash stack, but would he not have to be there all day for that? Or are Toronto residents big chess gamblers?

Too much 'woman in training gear/underwear' trope for me in this one.

Fun conversation in the car, however, no license, no ID, driving a stolen vehicle, after leading the cops on a chase, and then they just give in to the threat of social media? I don't buy that. Kirk should have been hauled off.
My word the PRODUCT PLACEMENT was strong in this one!

Toronto to Vermont and back again? Plus time to search for Peila - it that one day, two?

One thing the episode did not give us was a date other than 'early 21stC'

How did they cross the American-Canadian border twice?

Peila either lived in Pythagoras's time or it was a joke.

Didn't really buy the romance, but humanising La'an was not a bad thing.

'The Noonien-Singh research institute?' - WTF?

Romulan spy was nicely left field, thought it was going to be something else. Good to see a Romulan use that Vulcaniod strength.

Fucking about AGAIN with the date of the Eugenics Wars - just fucking accept Star Trek is an alternative universe from the fucking 60's onwards and leave the damm war in the 90's. Stop trying to make it 'in the future' cos you have put in a hard date of 1996 in Wrath of Khan, plus Spock's lines in TOS, plus eventually real world time will overtake whenever you decide the fucking wars are and you have another hard line of 2063 or First Contact post WWIII.

Dicking about the 'temporal changes' so you can have the 20th/21stC be our world does NOT fucking work. Besides DS9 already told us 2024 is radically different to OTL since there was no smartphones, the internet was something else etc etc. This pissing about really annoys me. Good job SNW is a reboot timeline so I can head-canon ignore this shit.

Little Khan was kinda sweet. La'an talking to him was a good touch.

Does occur to me that if the name is such a burden, then why does La'an not just change it? What does she gain but pain from keeping it?

Temporal Agent turning up was a nice coda on the whole thing. Thought La'an was going to have a chat with Pelia.

Paul Wesley's Kirk was ok. He's not doing a Shatner impression which is ok cos this Kirk is from another timeline.
Christina Chong was good in this.

Well the kid being in Toronto would explain why Kirk had never heard of him since he died when the reactor blew. But how did the Romulan get into the facility in the other timeline?

Also why would Khan's DNA work to open the door since Khan is but a kid? Does that mean the chap who went in before La'an was also a distant ancestor?

The clothes, cash and watch La'an brought back would be fascinating to historians. Hope she kept them.

Was it me or did this seem like Picard S2 in one episode?

7/10

 

[Jeyl]

Khan is a bad guy.

In Star Trek II, yes. In Space Seed, he's an antagonist.

Um, killing was Step 2 in Khan's methods after he doesn't get what he wants in Step 1. How does that make it better?

Killing is not Step 1 for the good guys either, but they'll certainly resort to it as Step 2. Just look at how fast 2009's Kirk goes from galactic diplomat to straight-up executioner when Nero rejects his help. At least he "tried(?)" compared to Spock wanting to murder Nero as Step 1.

And I'm not trying to justify Khan's actions in Space Seed. I'm just attempting to bring some perspective that the mass murdering Khan that Strange New Worlds is portraying him as is not the same Khan that we get in Space Seed.

 

[fireproof78]

Peila either lived in Pythagoras's time or it was a joke.

She did.

Fucking about AGAIN with the date of the Eugenics Wars - just fucking accept Star Trek is an alternative universe from the fucking 60's onwards and leave the damm war in the 90's. Stop trying to make it 'in the future' cos you have put in a hard date of 1996 in Wrath of Khan, plus Spock's lines in TOS, plus eventually real world time will overtake whenever you decide the fucking wars are and you have another hard line of 2063 or First Contact post WWIII.

Star Trek will not do this.

Chucking away uniforms ok - guess the Discovery comm-badges don't exist anymore heh?

Were they ever treated as com badges in Seasons 1 and 2?

 

[cooleddie74]

Nope. They were just metal insignia pins except for the Section 31 badges.

 

[Guy Gardener]

True, but them planning to do something in LA in 2024 and have the final product already available 2 years beforehand in 2022 Toronto is new.

A lot of people had those files that Adam had. It was a prospectus asking for money, as much as a declaration by a Frankenstein-like inventor...

Noonian Singh is not Khan's name (first).

Depending on how they made him, or how they found him.

Noonian Singh is (initially) the name of the creator, not the creation.

Two creators probably.

Yes, it's also the name of the science experiment child, but I'm guessing that all of the supermen made in that lab, or at least the 8 kids in that snap shot were all the children of Noonian Singh, and therefore their surnames were all Noonian Singh. Oh god, please don't tell me that all 8 of them were named after character's from Disney's The Jungle Book, or Disney movies in general. Imagine if two of the superhuman tyrants who conquered a third of the world were Cinderella Noonian Singh and Snow White Noonian Singh?

Maybe IRL Hitler's dad isn't important to the "why was Hitler a pick" question, or maybe he was, if you look at the story of Hitler's dad, it seems like a time travel story. It isn't because time travel is not real, but it seems like a time travel story.

Is it more likely that Noonian and Singh are two women, two men or one of each?

1. Two Incels who make children themselves because no woman will touch them.
2. A gay couple, either gender, who are trying to bilk the system.
3. A hetero couple of breeders who can't breed, so figure out an alternative.

 

[NCC-73515]

La'an's very existence should be in question. I'm pretty sure delaying your great whatever grandfather's birth by at least 40 years means you will no longer exist period.

The device protected her from any changes

What building is it? One of those ones on the harbor?

The Noonien-Singh institute where Khan and the others live is the Royal Conservatory Khanservatory of Music

Take a look here: https://goo.gl/maps/W93x9njzyW8SzPSr9

The fact the Eugenics Wars are called a "world war" in TOS means the USA would very likely have been involved.

As explained in S1E1, the 2nd US civil war happened first, then the EW started (probably in the rest of the world), and only after that had started, it all became WW3 (well in SNW at least )

Did you really not understand the 92 thing and the Romulans explanation? I thought it was pretty understandable. Everytime she or others in the timewar try to change things time tries to fix itself. It's basically what old spock said in the 2009 movie.

It's more like what he said in COTEOF:
SPOCK: There is a theory. There could be some logic to the belief that time is fluid, like a river, with currents, eddies, backwash.
KIRK: And the same currents that swept McCoy to a certain time and place might sweep us there, too.

Kind of funny how they finally cast an Indian looking actor to play Khan (not sure if the actor actually is Indian) yet new Trek is putting his origins at just about anywhere else other than India (Los Angeles in Picard, Toronto in SNW)

It makes perfect sense to have him grow up in Khanada.

 

[SG-17]

. Good job SNW is a reboot timeline so I can head-canon ignore this shit.

Its not.

Temporal shenanigans is a good way to reconcile the historical inconsistencies throughout all of Trek. Going back to TOS with the Eugenics Wars being WW3, the Romulan War being fought with nuclear weapons, to TNG with WW3 being fought by drugged up soldiers, to DS9 having a very early 90s view of the future of the internet.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

ROMULANS: Okay. We've tanked Bud Light. Now let's flood the market with our own ale!

 

[Tallguy]

Christina Chong is great.

I'm getting that now, yes.

In Star Trek II, yes. In Space Seed, he's an antagonist.

Nope. Even in Space Seed he's the bad guy. He doesn't have "noble ends" that he's just being ruthless about achieving. At

Canadian warlord Khan Noonien Singh

You win.

Hey, I just noticed that Ortegas is navigator again. Is this some weird "alternate timeline" tell that we should be aware of?

 

[jackoverfull]

No amount of time circles is going to let turning Khan into a child decades after his rule as an adult make any sense.

can is an augment, his DNA is man made. They just made him decades later following the blueprints from the 1970s or whatever, problem solved.

 

[TerryTrek]

Alright, I'll give this a generous 7.

It wasn't anything particularly thought-provoking like last week, but it was entertaining pulpy fun.

This is another entry-level Trek episode you can really watch with your girlfriend or random friends who don't like Star Trek, though she'll probably comment on La'an's questionable fashion choices and giant heeled shoes. Looking like Saru there.

Christina got to add some much-needed dimensions to Laan. Last year was all about 'trauma, trauma trauma' and it played like a Discovery character. In this, she was able to play vulnerable, sexy (nipples and panty shots), funny (against Kirk), and didn't come off like some blatant 'empowerment' character. She was endearing and elevated a rather basic premise for an episode. When she cried at the end, it felt earned.

Seeing Toronto in all it's glory (all the places I frequent) was fun. We now know that Khan is locked away at the Royal Ontario Museum on Bloor, always suspected this... The Aga Khan museum may have been too obvious.

Adelaide was a joy to see again, though wasn't a fan of the whole time-travelling Romulan agent plot again. Played out after Picard S2.


There were some wonky Time travel logic elements, as discussed earlier... why does Peck's Spock even exist in the altered timeline?

The possibilities of Discovery/SNW existing in an alternate timeline from TOS, where the Eugenics Wars happened decades later, has a lot of potential for exploration in the years to come.

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[firehawk12]

I'm sure there are people who wonder the same about Paris, New Orleans and San Francisco.

Toronto is just so unremarkable. I guess if you wanted to hide a super human kid who will eventually start WW3, no better place to hide him because who would think to look for a secret base in Toronto. lol

I love the ROM. Its entrance looks like a crashed Borg cube.

Haha, yeah true. lol

Sadly there's an unused planetary attached to the museum... and the only reason I remember this is because for one summer they had a Star Trek exhibit there with props and stuff and they used the planetarium room to just screen Star Trek episodes on a loop.

 

[firehawk12]

Uhura isn't Spock and might have said something about La'an.

To borrow a Game of Thrones reference, Uhura just kind of forgot. lol

Spock never mentioned Sybok because he was ashamed of him, and I'm coming around to the idea that Discovery and the Spore Drive may have never existed in the TOS original timeline. As to whether you want to put TNG/VOY/DS9 in the original TOS or this slightly altered version, I leave that as an exercise. Time is sticky, as we just learned, it's possible that they may be the same in both.

I guess to be fair, the real answer is that they're bolting on so much crap to the continuity that it barely makes any sense anymore. Since WW3 didn't happen when Voyager travelled back in time, did that mean that the delay to WW3 referenced here already happened during the Voyager trip? Or is it because the writers that Voyager episode didn't really care about Khan and weren't thinking about how their story would impact a spinoff 20 years later. lol

 

[Nerys Myk]

I very much doubt that the Romulans (and the Klingons) before the 32nd Century would ever agree to a ban on time travel.

The monks on Borath keep a tight lid on Klingon time travel.

e street scene with Kirk right before they discover (rather conveniently!) the institute.

I think Sera was prodding them along.

La'an's very existence should be in question. I'm pretty sure delaying your great whatever grandfather's birth by at least 40 years means you will no longer exist period.

Why? She get's born no matter how may generation between.

So basically then La'an never existed in the TOS universe and Wrath of Khan where Khan himself (in WoK) outright says he fled Earth in 1996.

Nope.

Or someone else's misadventures somewhen else put everything back to how "Space Seed" and TWOK had it, and we never get to see that story.

TWOK is probably the result of some time meddling as well. Hence the blond Aryan über Kinder like Joachim.

Nah, they should just leave that alone. ST's Prime universe is a different one than ours. It's that simple.

Someone should have told the writers starting in the 60s.

So this episode proves that Star Trek takes place in production order? T

No and No.

Kind of funny how they finally cast an Indian looking actor to play Khan (not sure if the actor actually is Indian) yet new Trek is putting his origins at just about anywhere else other than India (Los Angeles in Picard, Toronto in SNW)

I have it on good authority that people of Indian descent live in many places.

Khan struck me as the kind of guy who'd be educated in Britain or North America before coming home to India and beginning his rise to power.

Mexico. A lot of time in Mexico.

In Star Trek II, yes. In Space Seed, he's an antagonist.

Nope. He's the bad guy who commandeered the ship, attempted to murder the captain, threatened to kill the bridge crew and planned to use the ship to create an empire.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

UNLUCKY AGENT: Don't let Indiana Jones get the...Dial of Destiny... Go to the bridge...

 

[cooleddie74]

LA'AN: "Man. The PS17 system looks totally kickass."