Spoilers How much has Star Trek: Discovery influenced Star Trek: Picard?

[Enterprise1701]

In the span of the last month, two threads in the PIC forum were closed by the moderator for spending too much time discussing DIS.

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/did...-the-ship-with-picard-season-3.313322/page-49
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/was-picard-season-3-an-allegory-for-anything.313954/page-9

For good or bad, what can be said about ways in which DIS set the stage for PIC? Did you post in this DIS forum thread from several years ago, and did your predictions come true?

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/“je...-picard-show-eclipse-discovery.295357/page-91

 

[fireproof78]

I think Picard was dictated more by Stewart and his wishes and interests in exploring specific themes.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I think one has very little bearing on the other.

 

[Lord Garth]

Everything relevant I said in that old thread from 2018.

Between the Picard show, Discovery, and the Kelvin Films, I think that's a good enough cross-section to appeal to anyone who wants some form of new Star Trek.

And those who think "Everything made after _____ sucks!", that's what DVDs and Streaming are for.

Replace "the Kelvin Films" with "SNW" and everything I said still stands.

The only disappointment I have is that it's harder for a show to reach 100 episodes.* I'd like to hear that Discovery (or any future series) will be on broadcast television some day, far in the future, on something like HiTV or BBC America. Maybe they'll lower the threshold for the number episodes required for strip-syndication.

* It would take eight seasons for DSC to reach 100 episodes and I doubt it'll go that long. On the other hand, it would only take them five to reach 65. That at least sounds plausible.

I said five seasons and 65 episodes sounded like a plausible run for Discovery... and that's exactly what we got!

I'll be interested in seeing Picard in a serialized season. It's a character I don't associate with this type of TV. So it'll be seeing the same character through a completely different type of execution.

Exactly what ended up happening, and I loved seeing Picard, the rest of the TNG characters, and Seven in this type of television.

The bolded parts [of someone else's post] are what I want to emphasize. Her race. Her gender.

I think people are defining her by that -- which says more about them than it does about her -- but when watching the actual series, her gender has nothing to do with anything. If by her race, you mean that she's black, then it has nothing to do with anything either. If by her race you mean human, then that's different. It does have something to do her being human and raised on Vulcan; which is something we haven't seen before: a main character who's a human but being raised with a different race.

I could've made this post today.

Thank God for that. If we do see John McClane Picard then, no matter how much several of us might disagree about Discovery, at least we'll have something we can all agree about.

It'll be weird arguing with some people about DSC here, but then for the Picard Series we might possibly be on the same page. Talk about serious whip-lash going from one forum to the other.

Thankfully we didn't see John McClane Picard, not that I was expecting to. I also did end up in a situation where I was on the same page with some posters about PIC but not DSC, and vice-versa.

I wonder if they'll stick with the TOS font for the Picard Series? That would feel weird.

It did feel weird, but whatever.

 

[donners22]

Funnily enough, Picard S3 was built around things which Disco gets bashed for.

- New character with deep and never before mentioned ties to legacy characters - check
- Drawn-out mystery box - check
- Starfleet/galaxy-threatening event - check
- Disaster averted through the power of emotion - check
- Recurring bridge characters with little characterisation or development - check
- Small-universe syndrome - check

So on and so forth. If it was a Disco season, it would be slaughtered, but such is the power of nostalgia.

 

[Lord Garth]

Funnily enough, Picard S3 was built around things which Disco gets bashed for.

- New character with deep and never before mentioned ties to legacy characters - check
- Drawn-out mystery box - check
- Starfleet/galaxy-threatening event - check
- Disaster averted through the power of emotion - check
- Recurring bridge characters with little characterisation or development - check
- Small-universe syndrome - check

So on and so forth. If it was a Disco season, it would be slaughtered, but such is the power of nostalgia.

We can pin it down even further than that: "The Power of TNG Season 8".

Spoiler

Picard back? "Not enough."
The entire TNG Cast back? "Not enough!"
The Enterprise-D back? "YES!!!!!!!!"

That's how it went down.

 

[urbandefault]

We can pin it down even further than that: "The Power of TNG Season 8".

Spoiler

Picard back? "Not enough."
The entire TNG Cast back? "Not enough!"
The Enterprise-D back? "YES!!!!!!!!"

That's how it went down.

Works for me.

 

[DarKush]

Interesting question. I would say story serialization, the darker tone, and more focus on a singular character's journey. I'm not sure how much the DISCO aesthetics influenced Picard, but I could see that happening as well. That said, I don't think Picard ever looked as good as Discovery. Season 3 of Picard came the closest.

 

[fireproof78]

I would say story serialization, the darker tone, and more focus on a singular character's journey.

Can that really be put at Discovery's feet thought? We already had darker tone, and serialization in Deep Space Nine and Enterprise, and that was just reflective of the times those shows were made in. To me, Discovery and Picard both reflect the current cultural influences more than just being an influence on one another.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Visually, we see the Disco/SNW Enterprise in season one, we have the Disco "badge split" which is a norm in modern Trek. The warp speed effect is carried over from Discovery which is carried over from the Kelvinverse.

Then we have the flipside, where Discovery S4 literally recycles the ex machina of Picard S1 to resurrect a character, even namedropping Jean-Luc.

 

[The Wormhole]

Picard basically owes its existence to Disco. That is if Disco S1 had never existed and not done well enough to be considered a hit. Picard never would have happened.

 

[Tuskin38]

which is a norm in modern Trek.

SNW has never used it, nor has Lower Decks.
Prodigy sort of has, but it's split down the middle, not off to the side.

we have the Disco "badge split"

The Picard badge is based off the Berman era Alt-Future badge which did the split before Discovery did.

 

[Lord Garth]

Visually, Picard is a cross between DSC, the TNG Movies, and Star Trek Online.

Tonally, Picard is a cross between DSC, the TOS Movies, and what the writers and actors wished could've or would've been done in TNG and the TNG Movies.

Storywise, Picard continues the story from TNG, DS9, and VOY underneath the umbrella of TNG and takes several cues from the broad strokes of the TOS Movies.

So I think PIC has a lot of elements from DSC, but there are a lot of other ingredients too.

There are also some critical TOS episodes that Picard draws inspiration from:
"Tomorrow Is Yesterday"
"Mirror, Mirror"
"Return to Tomorrow"
"Assignment: Earth"
And they have some fun with a line from "Journey to Babel".

Spoiler

Namely, "For a logical reason, a Vulcan can kill." Then, in Picard Season 3, we see a Gangster Vulcan who says, "A free society has crime, therefore engaging in organized crime is logical."

I feel like the similarities between Discovery and Picard are less than 50%.

Discovery stuck with the same cast and the same ship every season. Picard didn't. And even though it's evolved and changed showrunners, Discovery still feels like the same show. Picard Season 3 doesn't feel like the same show as Picard Season 1. Ultimately: S3 is everything S1 wasn't, and vice-versa.

How I break down PIC...
Season 1: This isn't a TNG Reunion!
Season 3: Yes it is!
Season 2: I'm just going to hang out in 2024.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

That said, I don't think Picard ever looked as good as Discovery. Season 3 of Picard came the closest.

I'd say Season 1. 90% of Picard Season 3 took place on the Titan. At least in Season 1 we saw a wide variety of places (Daystrom, Starfleet Archives, Starfleet HQ, The Romulan refugee colony, the artefact and Soong's world.

 

[SJGardner]

There is a bit of common messaging between the first seasons of Picard and Discovery in that they both dare to portray an embattled Federation that has lost its way, with heroes who embody the values the Federation should stand for saving the day by reminding them of that. But other than that, they're very different productions. Discovery has ultimately proven to be a plot-driven series masquerading as a character piece, while Picard has always been the latter and never attempted to portray itself as something else.

Picard has also always been more willing to tie back directly, in a production sense, to the shows it's connected to, which of course is no surprise given it's a direct sequel. Beyond the actors, whenever it tied back to the TNG era, we were shown (approximations of) the old uniforms or stock footage, late 2370s starships models ported from Star Trek Online, and of course the Enterprise-D itself. Discovery, being a whole century removed from Enterprise's timeframe and 50 years from the production of TOS, would instead reinterpret and reinvent old stuff with its own design philosophy, and would only use stock footage for dramatic effect, such as recapping The Cage at the beginning of If Memory Serves, or Michael watching a recording of Nimoy's Spock from TNG's Unification II in Unification III. Of course, both of these instances had the additional aim of directly tying Discovery into previous Trek productions, compensating with messaging for the unavailability of the original actors, something Picard wouldn't have needed that much; The Cage recap used unaltered original footage of the Enterprise physical model and ended with clean cut from Jeffrey Hunter to Anson Mount, and Michael readily recognized Nimoy's Spock as her brother without any comments.

 

[vulcancicada]

I think they were both created during the same time period and reflect more of the context of this time period than Picard directly being influenced by discovery. They both kind of pushed back against the Berman Trek era in their own ways. But you could also argue that PIC season 3 purposely went away from the politics of discovery and delved back into Berman Trek a bit.

 

[gweeps]

Funnily enough, Picard S3 was built around things which Disco gets bashed for.

- New character with deep and never before mentioned ties to legacy characters - check
- Drawn-out mystery box - check
- Starfleet/galaxy-threatening event - check
- Disaster averted through the power of emotion - check
- Recurring bridge characters with little characterisation or development - check
- Small-universe syndrome - check

So on and so forth. If it was a Disco season, it would be slaughtered, but such is the power of nostalgia.

And all this is why I was entertained but not enthralled by PIC S3.

 

[DarKush]

I'd say Season 1. 90% of Picard Season 3 took place on the Titan. At least in Season 1 we saw a wide variety of places (Daystrom, Starfleet Archives, Starfleet HQ, The Romulan refugee colony, the artefact and Soong's world.

I wasn't impressed much by the aesthetics of Picard's first two seasons. On the Titan or outside of it, I liked the production design a lot more in the third season. DISCO, though, has always looked great.

 

[The Wormhole]

I wasn't impressed much by the aesthetics of Picard's first two seasons. On the Titan or outside of it, I liked the production design a lot more in the third season.

The production aesthetic of Picard's third season was the same as the second. Indeed, aside from that particular ship featured in the finale, all the sets seen in the third season were built and used in the second.

 

[Lord Garth]

The production aesthetic of Picard's third season was the same as the second. Indeed, aside from that particular ship featured in the finale, all the sets seen in the third season were built and used in the second.

Shhh!!!!!! You're not supposed to say that out loud!