“Jean-Luc Picard is back”: will new Picard show eclipse Discovery?

[BillJ]

I'm not going to let it spoil my dinner.

I agree. Canon and continuity are fun to bullshit about, but they are the least of my issues with Discovery. I thought they had a really talented group of actors that were let down, for the most part, by the writing.

I am hopeful that we get something more engaging in season two.

 

[Rahul]

She's not. That's literally the entire arc her character.

In the beginning, she does what her father tells her to do and she gets thrown in jail
In the end, she goes against her father's conspiracy - tells him he's wrong and comes up with her own plan - and everyone is better for it and she is redeemed.

They really, really fumbled that arc, though.
So far Michael Burnham is defined by a few things: Her race. Her gender. Her connection to Spock. And that she has a redemption arc the writers utterly fucked up by her not actually having something really to redeem for.

I like her. In my opinion she at times comes across a bit like a female Tom Paris (who was also laughably overqualified in every regard - but still a cool dude). And I like her the same way I like Tom. I can't stand the fucking voice-overs they give her, but everytime she has actual dialogue she can act with, she comes across as a genuine great character.

But her arc? The larger plot? The writers fucked this up big time. At least in S1. I can forgive, because this show really had some development issues, and I hope they find their voice from S2 onward.

But let's be super honest here: For every regular viewer, her defining attribute so far is not her thin character arc, but her connection to the famous character Spock - not her in her own right. Which is IMO a massive miscalculation by the writers.

 

[CorporalClegg]

No. Most 'regular viewers' don't give a shit.

 

[Lord Garth]

They really, really fumbled that arc, though.
So far Michael Burnham is defined by a few things: Her race. Her gender. Her connection to Spock. And that she has a redemption arc the writers utterly fucked up by her not actually having something really to redeem for.

The bolded parts are what I want to emphasize. Her race. Her gender.

I think people are defining her by that -- which says more about them than it does about her -- but when watching the actual series, her gender has nothing to do with anything. If by her race, you mean that she's black, then it has nothing to do with anything either. If by her race you mean human, then that's different. It does have something to do her being human and raised on Vulcan; which is something we haven't seen before: a main character who's a human but being raised with a different race.

 

[BillJ]

No. Most 'regular viewers' don't give a shit.

I would say that Spock is an enticement to get people to try the show.

 

[fireproof78]

The only problem I see is that we already know how this ends (Sarek dies of illness with Picard without ever reconnecting with Spock), and I fear every step the writers take this story further, it's going to diminish this impact.

How? How does Sarek attempting reconciliation with Michael impact that distance between him and Spock? There was a near reconciliation between him and Spock in TVH but that never completely mended. It's tragic no matter what the details.

 

[BillJ]

If by her race you mean human, then that's different. It does have something to do her being human and raised on a Vulcan; which is something we haven't seen before: a main character who's a human but being raised with a different race.

Though it is pretty much exactly Worf's backstory.

 

[Jinn]

Though it is pretty much exactly Worf's backstory.

Which one?

 

[Lord Garth]

Though it is pretty much exactly Worf's backstory.

It's the opposite. Worf is an alien raised by humans. Burnham is a human raised by aliens. Kind of like how Family Ties is the reverse of All in the Family and Top of the Class is the reverse of Welcome Back Kotter.

 

[BillJ]

Child survivor of an enemy attack, adopted by a people who aren't her/his own. Has issues integrating into that society. Has even more issues when she rejoins her people.

 

[gblews]

I agree that the spore drive did much to trounce the spirit of discovery from TOS . How many plots hinged on the Enterprise needing to be somewhere to end a famine, divert an asteroid, treat an outbreak of disease, mitigate the contamination from a visit many years before, or avoid destruction by the galactic barrier? All that seems trivial if there is a way to travel instantaneously , albeit I feel the same about NuTrek's long distance transporters .

The spore drive simply cuts out the "drama" associated with travel time. You can still have that drama. You simply cut it from "we'll need to allow for 4 hours to get to Mentaka 3 (or whatever)", to 4 seconds to get there. Or, you transfer the drama previously created by a time crunch, to actually solving the issue at hand. In other words, the real drama starts once you get there.

But besides all that, we still saw time crunch drama in DSC despite the existence of the spore drive, when the Disco had to make it to that planet where dilithium was being mined. The "will they or won't they make it there in time" drama was caused by none other than...the spore drive!

There are all kinds of ways of recapturing this type of drama even with a propulsion system that will get the ship anywhere in the galaxy instantaneously.

 

[fireproof78]

More interesting, she does not have an idealized view of humanity like Worf does of Klingons.

 

[Jadeb]

She's not. That's literally the entire arc her character.

In the beginning, she does what her father tells her to do and she gets thrown in jail
In the end, she goes against her father's conspiracy - tells him he's wrong and comes up with her own plan - and everyone is better for it and she is redeemed.

Yours is one of the more compelling defenses I’ve seen for what they were trying to do. What’s on the screen is a muddled mess, but at least this read makes sense.

 

[BillJ]

More interesting, she does not have an idealized view of humanity like Worf does of Klingons.

We're not so sure of that, as she's already been with humans for seven years when we first meet the character.

 

[Lord Garth]

Child survivor of an enemy attack, adopted by a people who aren't her/his own. Has issues integrating into that society. Has even more issues when she rejoins her people.

Come on. Don't stop there. Why not throw in Seven of Nine too?

 

[BillJ]

Come on. Don't stop there. Why not throw in Seven of Nine too?

I tend to think of Seven differently, as she was also trying to reclaim her individualism. So it is Worf's backstory with a bit of a spin.

 

[BillJ]

While it likely wouldn't be possible, I would've actually liked for them to have gone backwards in season two. Back to when Burham first came aboard the Shenzhou. I think it would be interesting to watch the evolution of the character.

Though that would mean them doing without the Klingon crutch for a year.

 

[Groppler Zorn]

While it likely wouldn't be possible, I would've actually liked for them to have gone backwards in season two. Back to when Burham first came aboard the Shenzhou. I think it would be interesting to watch the evolution of the character.

Though that would mean them doing without the Klingon crutch for a year.

I like this idea.

And as for doing without the Klingons, everything up to when Michael went outside to the beacon in “Vulcan hello” was great - some of my favourite moments from the whole season happened in that few minutes.

They’re not going to do that, obviously, and I’d also like to see a development of the Klingon Cold War sociopolitical scene in the galactic arena - but if they decide to do flashbacks to Micheal becoming Michael on the shenzhou i think I’d enjoy that.

 

[fireproof78]

While it likely wouldn't be possible, I would've actually liked for them to have gone backwards in season two. Back to when Burham first came aboard the Shenzhou. I think it would be interesting to watch the evolution of the character.

Though that would mean them doing without the Klingon crutch for a year.

I like this idea. Also, as much as I enjoy the DSC Klingons, the less Klingons in Star Trek now the better.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I would say that Spock is an enticement to get people to try the show.

How? Spock isn't even name-dropped until the sixth episode. He's only referred to in vague abstract before that.