Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x10 - "The Last Generation"

[Fateor]

The other impediment to the Legacy show is that PICARD was filmed in Los Angeles (that was a condition Patrick Stewart had and if they didn't he wouldn't have agreed to do the show.) This really added another level of cost to the production, which is not something Paramount+ wants to continue. All the Los Angeles sets they have have been destroyed, with a few pieces placed in storage; but it would still probably be more expensive to ship them to Canada than to just rebuild them.

But an advantage the 32nd Starfleet Academy series has, aside from being produced in Toronto, is that it can make use of all the 32nd century sets and virtual environments that were created for Star Trek Discovery when it moved to the 32nd century. So already there are a few levels of production cost savings built in to the Starfleet Academy series.

While accurate that hasn't really answered the whole "who wants to watch it" question.

 

[jackoverfull]

Koenig himself, actually.

Ah! I wonder why they didn’t just go with Pavel then. If McCoy can still be up and around in his 130s Chekov can do the same in his 140s!

I think he just really fucking hates referring to her by a Borg name.

Then why mention it in the review?

It's interesting to consider this thematic contrast between the swan song of TOS and the swang song of TNG.

From The Undiscovered Country:

Azetbur: What's happened? What's the meaning of all of this?
James T. Kirk: It's about the future, Madame Chancellor. Some people think the future means the end of history. Well, we haven't run out of history quite yet. Your father called the future 'the undiscovered country.' People can be very frightened of change.
Azetbur: You've restored my father's faith.
James T. Kirk: And you've restored my son's.​

Compare "The Last Generation:"

Picard: If ever there was better evidence that the past mattered... it's right here.
Geordi: How many times has she managed to save the world?
Riker: No doubt more than the years will allow three old men to remember.
Geordi: You know, it's difficult to imagine what we all might have been without her.
Riker: Different, certainly. But certainly not better.​

For all that their show was called The Next Generation, the thematic preoccupation of "The Last Generation" is with past glory, whereas The Undiscovered Country is much more concerned the future. Where "The Last Generation" literally depicts the older generation as having to fight against the younger generation who have all been brainwashed by evil foreigners using scary technology, The Undiscovered Country is literally about how the older generation needs to get over its fear of change.

Good observation. But those were the 90s, the future looked bright and full of potential, now we live in a much more introspective society that fears the future and longs for past glories.
“The past tempts us, the present confuses us, and the future frightens us.”

 

[Gilora]

Well after watching that all I can say is this could of been perfect had it been pushed onto an hour and 30, so much you felt was chopped out (i.e. how did Seven/Raffi get onto the Titan), a hell of a lot of it felt rushed, saying goodbye to the Ent-D, some of the characters...why couldnt there been a scene of Data meeting Soji for example, since family, the next next generation was the theme. And was hoping a final speech or monologue for Picard as the Ent-G left for the stars but perhaps that was the point, his time is now over.

Regardless, probably straight into the top 10 of all time Trek episodes. Emotional, adrenalin charged and finally got to see the Enterprise D fight, probably fired more phasers and torpedoes than it had done in 7 seasons of TNG

Seven and Raffi stayed on the Titan with the dying Shaw while the others escaped in the maintenance shuttle.

But I agree that they should have found a way to make it longer.

 

[Sci]

TUC is my favorite TOS movie and TOS story, but the thematic intent of Picard Season 3 / The Last Generation is a much better fit for the TNG / 24th century saga which is far larger and more cohesive than the TOS saga / 23rd century story ever was.

I'll say again, back in 2000, many of us dreamed what the "Star Trek X" mega event movie would be. We got Nemesis instead. Years later, we got Star Trek Destiny to do in books what the movies didn't do, and it was one take. With Picard Season 3, it did as best as it could given the passage of time and budget constraints, that Mega event and the finale of everything in the 24th century, and the finale of TNG.

It was appropriate to look to the past, rather than to the future in this case, because 20 years ago we didn't get closure. Now we did. Within the story, the end of the Borg here, in 2401 is really the end of 38 years of crisis that began in 2364 in System J-25. The Borg, Wolf 359, The Battle of Sector 001, the Dominion War, the return of the Romulans and then the Romulan Supernova. The brief Federation-Klingon War, the Destructions. The past 40 years were harder fro Starfleet and the Federation than any time in the prior 70 certainly, and probably the hardest 40 in Federation history. And this is the end of it.

Only fitting it launches to a new era with an Enterprise-G, with a Captain from the past, a first officer from the present, and a "advisor", the son of one of Starfleet's greatest, right there, as the future.

*shrugs* I don't agree that "The Last Generation" had to be so nostalgia-focused, but the fact that it wasn't isn't inherently a bad thing either. But it is just striking how "The Last Generation" spends so much time on nostalgia for the past, while The Undiscovered Country is so concerned with the future. Neither thematic preoccupation is better or worse than the other, but it's still an interesting contrast.

Ah! I wonder why they didn’t just go with Pavel then. If McCoy can still be up and around in his 130s Chekov can do the same in his 140s!
Then why mention it in the review?

Good observation. But those were the 90s, the future looked bright and full of potential, now we live in a much more introspective society that fears the future and longs for past glories.
“The past tempts us, the present confuses us, and the future frightens us.”

That's a fair point. The future looked brighter (from a Western POV anyway) in 1991 than it does in 2023.

 

[SJGardner]

I am shocked, shocked to learn that a man in his early 20s is arrogant, impulsive, and has bad judgment! That is unheard of! Real 20-somethings are famously prudent, circumspect, and humble.

But of course, this is Star Trek. And as we know, the evolved humans of the 24th-25th centuries are supposed to be completely calm, collected, perfectly rational and professional to a fault in every waking moment, with the added evolutionary benefit of knowing everything the audience knows by default.

 

[Scionz]

It has bothered me all day but finally remembered. The fleet vs the Starbase reminded me of a Birth of the Federation battle.

In the Star Trek Destiny book series, a Starbase (might have been Starbase 24, I can't remember) was able to go toe to toe with a Borg Cube and win. Though I believe a second Cube destroyed it.

Starfleet doesn't build much that big, but when they do, they're monstrously powerful. It's absolutely plausable Spacedock could hold out that long.

The idea it was some kind of controller for planetary shields makes sense if the shield generator is on the station and it extends it around the planet (maybe safer incase of a warp core explosion, since you'd need a warp reactor to power a shield that big). We usually think that planetary shields are planetside, but that may not be the case at all in the 25th century.

 

[Sci]

But of course, this is Star Trek. And as we know, the evolved humans of the 24th-25th centuries are supposed to be completely calm, collected, perfectly rational and professional to a fault in every waking moment, with the added evolutionary benefit of knowing everything the audience knows by default.

But of course.

Actually, with Jack I should revise -- he's not just a man in his early 20s, he's a man in his early 20s who is acting under a mind-altering influence!

 

[Noname Given]

Ah.
I couldn’t warm up to the Constitution III class all season.
So now this is the first USS Enterprise design I dislike.
I hope STO explains that the F gets pulled from mothballs to replace the G for reasons.

In STO the Odyssey Class (which is what the 1701-F is) was designed in 2408, and first launched as a 'new' class in 2409 (the year STO begins in) -- If anything, given the events of this final episode, if it wasn't clear previously, its now definitely clear STO is an alternate timeline, as they'd really have to scrap and totally redo a lot of existing storyline/mission/character content to 're-align', and no, given what Cryptic has said over the years; they wouldn't rework existing content - if any future Star trek contradicted the STO timeline; they and STO players would just have to accept the fact that STO is now indeed, an alternate Trek timeline.

(And yeah, there are indeed plenty of STO players who will be upset about that fact, because they feel STO has done a better job WRT storytelling the events of 25th century Trek then the current Trek production teams. And back in the day when Paramount thought they wouldn't be doing anything in their 'Prime' timeline, they even mentioned in various Trek fan material that STO could be considered 'canon' until/if ever contradicted on screen. And BOY did PICARD S3 majorly contradict it.)

And yes, I like and play the game regularly, but no, I'm not upset that its no longer able to be anywhere CLOSE to canonical. Other players MMV.

 

[Yistaan]

I am shocked, shocked to learn that a man in his early 20s is arrogant, impulsive, and has bad judgment! That is unheard of! Real 20-somethings are famously prudent, circumspect, and humble.

It just occurred to me if we had more real life 20 somethings willing to run out and do something as insane as taking down our real world "Borg Queens" it might... I'm not advocating the assassination of anyone, but a quick glance at the news and we all know there are some figures I won't name who really, really, really probably deserve it.

 

[Sci]

In the Star Trek Destiny book series, a Starbase (might have been Starbase 24, I can't remember) was able to go toe to toe with a Borg Cube and win. Though I believe a second Cube destroyed it.

Starfleet doesn't build much that big, but when they do, they're monstrously powerful. It's absolutely plausable Spacedock could hold out that long.

The idea it was some kind of controller for planetary shields makes sense if the shield generator is on the station and it extends it around the planet (maybe safer incase of a warp core explosion, since you'd need a warp reactor to power a shield that big). We usually think that planetary shields are planetside, but that may not be the case at all in the 25th century.

That makes sense. You probably really don't want to have a functional warp core running on a planetary surface -- if there's an antimatter containment failure, you're talking about an environmental catastrophe. Much better idea to house them in an orbiting space station if you're running planetary shields.

It just occurred to me if we had more real life 20 somethings willing to run out and do something as insane as taking down our real world "Borg Queens" it might... I'm not advocating the assassination of anyone, but a quick glance at the news and we all know there are some figures I won't name who really, really, really probably deserve it.

Well, maybe one day the withered husk of Vladimir Putin will need to lure one particular U.S. flag officer's 20-year-old son to the Kremlin so as to conquer Kyiv...

 

[SJGardner]

In the Star Trek Destiny book series, a Starbase (might have been Starbase 24, I can't remember) was able to go toe to toe with a Borg Cube and win. Though I believe a second Cube destroyed it.

Starfleet doesn't build much that big, but when they do, they're monstrously powerful. It's absolutely plausable Spacedock could hold out that long.

The idea it was some kind of controller for planetary shields makes sense if the shield generator is on the station and it extends it around the planet (maybe safer incase of a warp core explosion, since you'd need a warp reactor to power a shield that big). We usually think that planetary shields are planetside, but that may not be the case at all in the 25th century.

Based on how Deep Space Nine, itself a decades-old Cardassian mining station re-armed by Starfleet, managed to hold off Klingon and Dominion armadas on its own for comparable lengths of time while only suffering superficial damage, I found nothing unbelievable in that the most massive Starfleet structure in orbit of Earth which was even outright depicted as its main line of defense and planetary shield generator would be able to hold out against what some fans counted as somewhere around 300-350 ships for about half an hour before ultimately succumbing to the barrage.

 

[jackoverfull]

And was hoping a final speech or monologue for Picard as the Ent-G left for the stars but perhaps that was the point, his time is now over.

something I’ve noticed already is that they don’t seem to be able to write good Picard speeches anymore, when they try it sounds hollow and bombastic. Good thing they went with Shakespeare.

 

[Noname Given]

Random thoughts before I go to sleep:

Oh boy did they need to reveal Jack's Borg connection three episodes sooner so they could space this out. That was rushed as all hell.

Genuinely surprised at no Janeway...

I'm not. Katherine Janeway is a bigger (in eyes of most VOY fans) than 7of9; while Tuvok it at a similar level. 7of9 was supposed to be the focus of that scene. And overall like Picard, Janeway has a LONG history with the Borg so that would take some focus off his history too.) If you put Janeway ANYWHERE in the mix, major focus is shifted off of 7of9 and her promotion to Captain. That's why they used Tuvok in both of the episodes they did. It's a nice Easter egg/callback for VOY fans that really doesn't upstage 7of9.

 

[Scionz]

In STO the Odyssey Class (which is what the 1701-F is) was designed in 2408, and first launched as a 'new' class in 2409 (the year STO begins in) -- If anything, given the events of this final episode, if it wasn't clear previously, its now definitely clear STO is an alternate timeline, as they'd really have to scrap and totally redo a lot of existing storyline/mission/character content to 're-align', and no, given what Cryptic has said over the years; they wouldn't rework existing content - if any future Star trek contradicted the STO timeline; they and STO players would just have to accept the fact that STO is now indeed, an alternate Trek timeline.

(And yeah, there are indeed plenty of STO players who will be upset about that fact, because they feel STO has done a better job WRT storytelling the events of 25th century Trek then the current Trek production teams. And back in the day when Paramount thought they wouldn't be doing anything in their 'Prime' timeline, they even mentioned in various Trek fan material that STO could be considered 'canon' until/if ever contradicted on screen. And BOY did PICARD S3 majorly contradict it.)

And yes, I like and play the game regularly, but no, I'm not upset that its no longer able to be anywhere CLOSE to canonical. Other players MMV.

I play STO a lot too. And I feel the same. They've done a good job in recent years trying to make the story ever more Prime-ish, but it's too far separated and that's fine.

Really, they did the best thing they needed to a few years ago and just got rid of the "Video Game design" shit that plagued the launch years of STO, like the original look to the 25th century ships that was just horrid, and the uniforms which looked like miscellaneous gamer gear. They're far more restrained now and follow Trek design language very closely. The introduction, and successful revamp, of canon ships, and keeping their own creations very canon-adjacent (as opposed to the original look) has only made the game better.

Really, the distance of the story from canon is probably the for the best.

If there is one change I would make though, it would be to introduce the 2401/2402 uniform and make it the standard one. The Odyssey uniform is good (and better than the original crap), but the changes they made to the Picard S3 uniform over the S2 one (capping it off with the new Comebadge in 2402) is just a look that is hard to beat. It may be one of the best uniforms we've ever gotten.

If they do add the 1701-G, I would expect some BS reason to have two Enterprises serving concurrently, since the 1701-F is an icon in the game (now even moreso). I'm not sad to see its life in prime to be short though. It's not a great design IMO. the Connie-III class is better.

 

[Phily B]

They probably didn't have enough money. They spent it all of it on the Ent-D.

 

[Yistaan]

something I’ve noticed already is that they don’t seem to be able to write good Picard speeches anymore, when they try it sounds hollow and bombastic. Good thing they went with Shakespeare.

Picard never recovered from Altan Soong's withering takedown of him in Season 1.

Altan: Look at them. They've never met anyone like you before. That granite face, wisdom and integrity etched into every line. The eloquence, the conviction. They don't know what hit them. Back on Earth, kids, they didn't listen to him after the attack on Mars. And they're not going to believe him now.

I play STO a lot too. And I feel the same. They've done a good job in recent years trying to make the story ever more Prime-ish, but it's too far separated and that's fine.

Really, they did the best thing they needed to a few years ago and just got rid of the "Video Game design" shit that plagued the launch years of STO, like the original look to the 25th century ships that was just horrid, and the uniforms which looked like miscellaneous gamer gear. They're far more restrained now and follow Trek design language very closely. The introduction, and successful revamp, of canon ships, and keeping their own creations very canon-adjacent (as opposed to the original look) has only made the game better.

Really, the distance of the story from canon is probably the for the best.

If there is one change I would make though, it would be to introduce the 2401/2402 uniform and make it the standard one. The Odyssey uniform is good (and better than the original crap), but the changes they made to the Picard S3 uniform over the S2 one (capping it off with the new Comebadge in 2402) is just a look that is hard to beat. It may be one of the best uniforms we've ever gotten.

If they do add the 1701-G, I would expect some BS reason to have two Enterprises serving concurrently, since the 1701-F is an icon in the game (now even moreso). I'm not sad to see its life in prime to be short though. It's not a great design IMO. the Connie-III class is better.

I'd assume they'd just reskin the Enterprise as the G? Shon can still be the captain after Seven.

 

[Racefuel]

There's some parts of the STO story that are......yeah....

 

[Markonian]

In STO the Odyssey Class (which is what the 1701-F is) was designed in 2408, and first launched as a 'new' class in 2409 (the year STO begins in) -- If anything, given the events of this final episode, if it wasn't clear previously, its now definitely clear STO is an alternate timeline, as they'd really have to scrap and totally redo a lot of existing storyline/mission/character content to 're-align', and no, given what Cryptic has said over the years; they wouldn't rework existing content - if any future Star trek contradicted the STO timeline; they and STO players would just have to accept the fact that STO is now indeed, an alternate Trek timeline.

(And yeah, there are indeed plenty of STO players who will be upset about that fact, because they feel STO has done a better job WRT storytelling the events of 25th century Trek then the current Trek production teams. And back in the day when Paramount thought they wouldn't be doing anything in their 'Prime' timeline, they even mentioned in various Trek fan material that STO could be considered 'canon' until/if ever contradicted on screen. And BOY did PICARD S3 majorly contradict it.)

And yes, I like and play the game regularly, but no, I'm not upset that it’s no longer able to be anywhere CLOSE to canonical. Other players MMV.

The old Odyssey launch missions are long gone. The Enterprise-F is just there. I can’t think of any in game lore that would be contradicted by the F suddenly being older. There’s room for temporary Enterprise-G. Perhaps it just gets renamed back to Titan-A in 2409. No biggie.

 

[Fateor]

Based on how Deep Space Nine, itself a decades-old Cardassian mining station re-armed by Starfleet, managed to hold off Klingon and Dominion armadas on its own for comparable lengths of time while only suffering superficial damage, I found nothing unbelievable in that the most massive Starfleet structure in orbit of Earth which was even outright depicted as its main line of defense and planetary shield generator would be able to hold out against what some fans counted as somewhere around 300-350 ships for about half an hour before ultimately succumbing to the barrage.

It's even more impressive when you take into account the stations counter fire was probably limited to trying to disable the captured Starfleet vessel's weapons instead of going for kills.

 

[Yistaan]

The community manager at Star Trek Online reddit just posted they will not be removing past missions to match with Picard.

https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/commen.../?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3