Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x10 - "The Last Generation"

[Yistaan]

So Beverly's head of Starfleet Medical again? I give her a year at most.

 

[Racefuel]

How many people died?

We didn't know about the death count at Wolf 359 until Drumhead. We didn't even know how many starships were lost until later on.

Because we didn't know exactly how many ships and people were killed in BOBW at the end of the episode, did that make it lazy and stupid writing?

 

[Captain Jollydark]

I really tried to be moved by this episode in same way that people were moved by the last episode. I wanted to let the reused music cues, the actual, final TNG reunion with crew have an impact on me... and it just didn't. I totally understand people who will love this and consider this the best Trek has done of the 5 modern shows, and I can respect that opinion, but I think this show has just reminded me that the version of me that lived in the 90s is probably gone... and I can't help but be sad about that.

Even the after credits sequence, which is a moment of pure fanservice (in a sea of fanservice) that apologizes and undoes Season 2 didn't make me go "Oh I wish there was more and Star Trek Legacy is greenlit!!!". It just made me glad it was finally over and I can think about all the other Trek that's coming this year.

There's just a lot about this writing that's kind of washed over me. Even something as small as cutting away before Seven gives her warp command just felt so tropey and calculated that I kind of felt nothing when it happened.

There are some nitpicks that don't really matter, because I don't think the writers are really that interested in what happens outside of the fact that they got the crew together, gave them their moment, and let the audience bask in the nostalgia one last time.

The fact that there's no reason why the destruction of Earth would lead to the downfall of the Federation (which is actually canon in Discovery due to the fact that the Federation continued even after Earth quit), how the Borg Queen ignores the fact that Janeway blew her up and is obsessed with Picard, how a small batch of Changelings from Section 31 managed to procreate and create thousands of themselves, the fact that every young person in Starfleet should have deep trauma from killing their own crews, the fact that they couldn't work out Whoopi Goldberg's schedule to have Guinan be at her own bar despite mentioning her, missing an opportunity to namedrop or show Wesley when Jack gets through Starfleet like a wunderkind, even Raffi and Seven's relationship being glossed over...

Like, what does it actually serve to pick these nits when that's clearly not the point of the show?

I guess my only other big criticism is that this probably would have been much better as a movie or a miniseries and maybe in that context I would have been lost in the nostalgia a lot more. But of course they were obligated to make a third season of Picard instead, so it is what it is.

Also, we got both a "You got this" and a "I got this". I know that's a pet peeve of some people, so I couldn't help but laugh when I heard these lines.

For me the episode is a 7... and basically sums up my feelings of the whole season. Literally average.
I got Geordi and Data reunited and I loved that, but I don't know if that elevates the rest of the series. If they had made a series about the two of them hanging out and solving engineering problems, then who knows.

You've put into words what I haven't quite been able to articulate - including that I am not the person I was in the nineties. This nostalgia just annoys me. It's a missed opportunity.

That scene with Seven and Tuvok and hologram Shaw was lovely though.

 

[Vyse]

Unless you're privvy to all the story meeting discussions, various actor availabilities and such..its not really appropriate to say that Matalas set out to fuck DS9.

Additionally, this was about wrapping up TNG. Yes we had Tuvok come back, but that was because of personal importance to Seven.

Before people get upset about the scope of Picard, remember that Picard is focused on TNG.

My apologies, I forgot to reference this. https://movieweb.com/star-trek-picard-terry-matalas-interview/

From the article:

"There were other characters Matalas originally included in the first script fo Picard's third season. “The fact that you saw what we saw was miraculous, and we pulled it off, but it nearly killed us all,” he said. “But there was a scene with Soji and Data that we couldn’t afford to do. Ro Laren [Michelle Forbes] — there was a scene in which they found Ro in the dungeons of the Intrepid with Tuvok [Tim Russ] and that she had survived. We couldn’t pull it off. There was Harry Kim [from Voyager, played by Garrett Wang] — we really wanted to bring him back [as a captain]. We wanted Kate Mulgrew [Janeway] to be part of Seven of Nine’s promotion [to captain].

"They're all in the first script and then your line producer says, ‘Are you out of your f*****g mind with these things? You’re not Avengers: End game.’ So, they had to go," said Matalas."

They initially wanted even more Voyager alum, but not a single DS9 alum. It is a selfish nit pick on my part, but it irks me that they wanted even more VOY alum, but not a single DS9 alum.

 

[Quantum21]

He wanted to overwrite what he wrote?

"This isn't working, let's do a Dr Smith on her! Do we have Borg suits?"

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Before people get upset about the scope of Picard, remember that Picard is focused on TNG.

Why is it disdain?

Why can't it simply be is comfort and familiarity of the characters? This was very much the TNG send off and that's the focus. That's the nostalgia not incidental stories the writers are not invested in.

Like I write, I'm happy they didn't affect the DS9 story. However, Matalas clearly leveraged DS9 's accomplishments in order to justify his complicated narrative. It would not be unexpected to pay it back to either the native characters or writers.

 

[Captain_Amasov]

My guess is that since Voyager was the bigger impact on the current condition of the Borg, maybe they intended an away team on the cube at the end with Janeway and such, which would line up better with what the Borg Queen was saying to Picard in the final version.

 

[Cortez]

The Changlings were discovered and filtered out via the transporter. We don't need to know where they went, just that they were caught.

That particular story point, in regards to locating and removing the Changlings and Borg alterations, has been addressed and that story loop is closed.

No, not really. You think they would have gladly stepped onto a transporter after the game was up? One scene doesn't excuse the sloppy writing.

And beyond that, there was more to my initial post. No mention of Laris, no mention of Riker and Troi's daughter. No mention of what kind of condition Starfleet is in now. No sense of mourning for the ridiculously high body count. Ah, we're all together playing poker again.

 

[Quantum21]

My apologies, I forgot to reference this. https://movieweb.com/star-trek-picard-terry-matalas-interview/

From the article:

"There were other characters Matalas originally included in the first script fo Picard's third season. “The fact that you saw what we saw was miraculous, and we pulled it off, but it nearly killed us all,” he said. “But there was a scene with Soji and Data that we couldn’t afford to do. Ro Laren [Michelle Forbes] — there was a scene in which they found Ro in the dungeons of the Intrepid with Tuvok [Tim Russ] and that she had survived. We couldn’t pull it off. There was Harry Kim [from Voyager, played by Garrett Wang] — we really wanted to bring him back [as a captain]. We wanted Kate Mulgrew [Janeway] to be part of Seven of Nine’s promotion [to captain].

"They're all in the first script and then your line producer says, ‘Are you out of your f*****g mind with these things? You’re not Avengers: End game.’ So, they had to go," said Matalas."

They initially wanted even more Voyager alum, but not a single DS9 alum. It is a selfish nit pick on my part, but it irks me that they wanted even more VOY alum, but not a single DS9 alum.

Omg, it could have been worse?

 

[fireproof78]

Like I write, I'm happy they didn't affect the DS9 story. However, Matalas clearly leveraged DS9 's accomplishments in order to justify his complicated narrative.

Well, I don't agree with this at all. One, of course it didn't affect the DS9 story; the DS9 story is done. The rest is consequences. Two, I think he explored the consequences quite well so that I don't think was leverage but actual world building.

 

[Cap'n Calhoun]

Not sure why certain people keep going on about Laris. They had a very mature and respectful breakup scene in episode one.

That was a breakup? I really didn't get that out of "I'll be back, in a few days. Maybe even less." (Even with her replying "Maybe even more.")

 

[Cortez]

Why do we need to see Kestra in order to know she's OK? As for the Changelings, that's covered during Riker's log entry.

Laris - fair. Her lack of presence in the series finale doesn't surprise me, since Orla Brady said she's in a single episode this season, but it's a bummer.

Because Troi was abducted by Vadic. And no
,one log entry doesn't excuse the sloppy writing. They just sat there like idiots after Vadic was killed, waiting to be captured? Come on

 

[Quantum21]

No, not really. You think they would have gladly stepped onto a transporter after the game was up? One scene doesn't excuse the sloppy writing.

And beyond that, there was more to my initial post. No mention of Laris, no mention of Riker and Troi's daughter. No mention of what kind of condition Starfleet is in now. No sense of mourning for the ridiculously high body count. Ah, we're all together playing poker again.

Agreed, we're assuming this fixed the problem? Assuming the mission is finished, the Changelings could turn into anything. One Changeling could beam others off the ship. One counter-measure counteracts the other: new genetic modifications. What about Changelings who already left starships when their mission was done? Do civilian transporters detect them? What if they used shuttles or spacecraft?

Starfleet has a Changeling problem.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Well, I don't agree with this at all. One, of course it didn't affect the DS9 story; the DS9 story is done. The rest is consequences. Two, I think he explored the consequences quite well so that I don't think was leverage but actual world building.

Matalas could have used any of the other changelings or mimics from decades of Star Trek. Using the Dominion Changelings was clearly a choice to use the capital that DS9 earned.

 

[Quinton]

Because Troi was abducted by Vadic. And now, one log entry doesn't excuse the sloppy writing. They just sat there like idiots after Vadic was killed, waiting to be captured? Come on

I don't really have anything to offer in response, but I don't want you thinking I'm ignoring you. Fair enough, it's not the greatest writing in the world by any stretch. I'm just saying the actual answers, such as they are, are in the episode.

 

[Captain_Amasov]

With a larger Voyager connection originally thought of, they could have used Species 8472's planned infiltration of Starfleet as a better alternative to the Changelings, especially if the Borg had been able to assimilate some of them with this new organic transporter technique by directly adding Borg genetic code into their own bypassing their immense immune system.

 

[Racefuel]

No, not really. You think they would have gladly stepped onto a transporter after the game was up? One scene doesn't excuse the sloppy writing.

And beyond that, there was more to my initial post. No mention of Laris, no mention of Riker and Troi's daughter. No mention of what kind of condition Starfleet is in now. No sense of mourning for the ridiculously high body count. Ah, we're all together playing poker again.

What you think is lazy writing or poor writing isn't really relevant. You're approaching everything about this from a predisposition to think everything is lazy, stupid and otherwise contrived. You've shown that you either do not watch episodes and rely on reviews or summaries to make discussion points. When you are shown to have missed obvious details, you deflect and move goalposts.

The Changling infiltration was covered in this episode, why the Borg went after Vadic and her crew, what the motives were and how they removed the Changlings aftewards.

 

[Yistaan]

Let's just pretend Zhaban caught a changeling and was taken alive and they didn't bother to replace him, so he's back at the end of the day and thus Picard goes back to Beverly

So the first script had a lot of stuff that people here say they want (nothing about DS9 though) that Matalas said was cut because they dont' have infinite budget ( Exclusive: Star Trek Picard Showrunner Terry Matalas Says Working on the Last Two Episodes Nearly Killed Him (movieweb.com) )

"“But there was a scene with Soji and Data that we couldn’t afford to do. Ro Laren [Michelle Forbes] — there was a scene in which they found Ro in the dungeons of the Intrepid with Tuvok [Tim Russ] and that she had survived. We couldn’t pull it off. There was Harry Kim [from Voyager, played by Garrett Wang] — we really wanted to bring him back [as a captain]. We wanted Kate Mulgrew [Janeway] to be part of Seven of Nine’s promotion [to captain]."

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Indeed, the Borg didn't need any changelings. They possessed the technology to create sleeper agents on their own.

 

[Racefuel]

Agreed, we're assuming this fixed the problem? Assuming the mission is finished, the Changelings could turn into anything. One Changeling could beam others off the ship. One counter-measure counteracts the other: new genetic modifications. What about Changelings who already left starships when their mission was done? Do civilian transporters detect them? What if they used shuttles or spacecraft?

Starfleet has a Changeling problem.

The Changling story arc is finished. There was no ambiguity at the end of it. It's done.

Your refusal to accept that does not change what you cannot control. You are not the showrunner for Star Trek, you are not a producer, director or writer.

If CBS says the Changlings are defeated and the story arc is closed, then the Changlings are defeated and the story arc is closed.