I think when we see the front of the borg queen next week, it'll either be Beverly or it'll be the face. The face will be some kind of 'somehow palpatine returned' monster.
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x09 - "Võx"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
I think when we see the front of the borg queen next week, it'll either be Beverly or it'll be the face. The face will be some kind of 'somehow palpatine returned' monster.
Kill apparently. Based on what they did with Shelby. So death is a fate worse than death?
I called it! I bloody called it!
And guess what is in bay 12...
The engine section is from the Syracuse. And they can obviously not use the E, thought whatever happened was not Worf's fault.
The best ship of all Trek is back baby!
Death after finding out that their children had all been assimilated, why not?
Which raises the question of what the Jurati-Borg are doing while the main Borg are invading.
That Rick Berman-esque restraint, especially in what's amounted to be a 10 hour TNG-era movie, is not and was not to the franchise's benefit. All the time? No you don't want to write plots like we're 8 year olds playing with action figures in a guest room. But there are times when you just pull that lever.
Or let me put it like this. I participated in these forums in the 1990s /early 2000s on a different account (long lost). And before Nemesis came out, but after Star Trek Insurrection, we all had a good time imagining what "Star Trek X" would be. The 10th movie.,.. the BIG one... has to be a huge, galaxy threatening event and not something like Insurrection. Most versions of that involved the Borg or the Dominion. The book series Star Trek Destiny, which came out years later, more or less ended up being what a lot of us imagined - the unproduced 10th movie, the super crossover, where the stakes have never been higher, and yes, the Borg make their big move.
That never happened with "Star Trek X". We got Nemesis, because Rick Berman was creatively burned out by that point and *couldn't* pull that lever. But where we are, 20 years later, and Matalas and co did it.
A time like this is the time to do it. This is the last ride, at the end of two decades of TNG's great absence. If this was some new alien threat, or even worse, for fucks sake, "Redjac" like some posited, it wouldn't hit hard at all. But it being "the big one" with the Borg.. completing the trilogy with Best of Both Worlds and First Contact... yeah... I think that's the time to go full action-figure play plot.
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Outcome would still be the same.
The Enterprise E?I called it! I bloody called it!
The best ship of all Trek is back baby!
20/10!
I'll avoid Spoiler Discussion for now.
That was everything the Star Wars Sequels should have been. That was everything the previous Picard seasons should have been.
A beautiful episode made (and directed) lovingly by someone who loves Star Trek.
Nu Trek's first mystery box done correctly and well-planned, with all the pieces in place since the beginning. Everything fits, everything works.
The Last Generation being raised up, respected and tasked with saving the Next, Next Generation.
Perfect premise for their final Trek adventure.
I'll avoid Spoiler Discussion for now.
That was everything the Star Wars Sequels should have been. That was everything the previous Picard seasons should have been.
A beautiful episode made (and directed) lovingly by someone who loves Star Trek.
Nu Trek's first mystery box done correctly and well-planned, with all the pieces in place since the beginning. Everything fits, everything works.
The Last Generation being raised up, respected and tasked with saving the Next, Next Generation.
Perfect premise for their final Trek adventure.
I mean, this requires accepting that these rogue Changelings are fundamentally stupid though. Because you can't negotiate with Borg. They will turn on you. With the Federation gone, the Borg would be in a much better position to target the Dominion and the Great Link.
I can buy bringing back either the Changelings or the Borg. (I don't like bringing back the Borg because I think that cow stopped giving milk a long time ago, but whatever. I can buy it one more time.) But bringing back both is just... hard to take seriously.
My eyes nearly rolled out of my head when Jack's secret was revealed. I wouldn't mind the Borg stuff if it wasn't so thoroughly played out by now. I've praised this season for not ignoring the last couple of seasons of Picard, until now. We literally did the Borg Queen last season. Didn't they take over the Stargazer too? We had the reactivated Cube in Season 1. It feels like ground that has been trodden a zillion times now.
And was there any point in the Changeling story at all? I guess we'll just forget about them now. Why would they team up with the Borg, the ultimate Solids? The Dominion won't be safe from a rampant Collective.
I wouldn't be so sure Shaw is dead-dead. Presumably Seven and Raffi stayed behind for some reason? Otherwise it's pretty lame to leave them on the Titan just so we can get the old crew on their own.
Of course I loved the nostalgia-bait of the Enterprise-D, which we all saw coming a light year away. I loved hearing Majel as the computer voice (a clip from Chain of Command I believe!). I cheered at Admiral Shelby - and then gasped when she got phasered.
There's a lot of ground to cover in the last episode. Will they stick the landing? It's been a great season up until now, but I will admit I am starting to see some cracks...
And was there any point in the Changeling story at all? I guess we'll just forget about them now. Why would they team up with the Borg, the ultimate Solids? The Dominion won't be safe from a rampant Collective.
I wouldn't be so sure Shaw is dead-dead. Presumably Seven and Raffi stayed behind for some reason? Otherwise it's pretty lame to leave them on the Titan just so we can get the old crew on their own.
Of course I loved the nostalgia-bait of the Enterprise-D, which we all saw coming a light year away. I loved hearing Majel as the computer voice (a clip from Chain of Command I believe!). I cheered at Admiral Shelby - and then gasped when she got phasered.
There's a lot of ground to cover in the last episode. Will they stick the landing? It's been a great season up until now, but I will admit I am starting to see some cracks...
I liked this episode. Finally, we got answers about Jack, so the story can move forward. I wasn't surprised with the way they went, though I was wondering if there might be a swerve, and it's the Prodigy villains behind it all.
It was great hearing Alice Krige's voice again, and I'm guessing they are saving her appearance until she faces off with Picard next week. When Jack stole the shuttle, I was expecting Syndey to somehow be onboard, or get onboard and they would face the Queen together.
I do wish "Vox" had been last week's episode, to give us two uninterrupted hours of derring-do for the series finale. So, I do think the pacing overall of the season hasn't been the best, but man, does Matalas, et. al., know how to turn on the nostalgia waterworks. I enjoyed a lot of the character moments in this episode. One of my quibbles though was Seven of Nine not being involved when they were talking about the Borg. Makes little sense, outside of her not being a TNG veteran, for her not to be on hand to provide insight into the Borg. I liked how they explained why the Borg were using the Changelings. I thought it was neat how the Borg snuck in right under Starfleet's nose. It reminds me of an old idea I heard was supposed to be in VOY's finale, of Borg replicants.
I'm also with those who feel that synchronizing the Fleet makes little sense. Even the writers had to note the irony of Shelby endorsing that plan. It was great seeing Shelby again (though there's a part of me that wished that Star Trek Online 's Captain Shon had been canonized as commanding the Enterprise-F). I wish someone had mentioned the synths and also what happened in Prodigy. The synchronization makes little sense. Though I did like how the Borg had already assimilated much of the Fleet. I was thinking that maybe Shelby would be assimilated too.
I think the episode was a bit rushed, and that gave Shaw's death scene a bit of short shrift, though I did like how he acknowledged Seven in the end (which I was expecting to happen by the end of the season in some fashion). I liked Shaw, but I didn't love the character like many others did, and he seemed to get lost in the shuffle as the series went on.
I liked seeing the Enterprise-D again, and the aside about the E.
I hope the finale has a more satisfying end than "Best of Both Worlds Part 2" and "Endgame". I hope that the O'Briens, Nurse Ogawa, Barclay, Wesley, and Guinan are in cameos. I know Pulaski is too much to ask for. I'm doubting there will be other DS9 characters now-though Jake as a news correspondent just seems like a no brainer. I am expecting Janeway though. With her relationship to the Borg and Seven, as well as her being mentioned several times, I can't see them not bringing her back.
It was great hearing Alice Krige's voice again, and I'm guessing they are saving her appearance until she faces off with Picard next week. When Jack stole the shuttle, I was expecting Syndey to somehow be onboard, or get onboard and they would face the Queen together.
I do wish "Vox" had been last week's episode, to give us two uninterrupted hours of derring-do for the series finale. So, I do think the pacing overall of the season hasn't been the best, but man, does Matalas, et. al., know how to turn on the nostalgia waterworks. I enjoyed a lot of the character moments in this episode. One of my quibbles though was Seven of Nine not being involved when they were talking about the Borg. Makes little sense, outside of her not being a TNG veteran, for her not to be on hand to provide insight into the Borg. I liked how they explained why the Borg were using the Changelings. I thought it was neat how the Borg snuck in right under Starfleet's nose. It reminds me of an old idea I heard was supposed to be in VOY's finale, of Borg replicants.
I'm also with those who feel that synchronizing the Fleet makes little sense. Even the writers had to note the irony of Shelby endorsing that plan. It was great seeing Shelby again (though there's a part of me that wished that Star Trek Online 's Captain Shon had been canonized as commanding the Enterprise-F). I wish someone had mentioned the synths and also what happened in Prodigy. The synchronization makes little sense. Though I did like how the Borg had already assimilated much of the Fleet. I was thinking that maybe Shelby would be assimilated too.
I think the episode was a bit rushed, and that gave Shaw's death scene a bit of short shrift, though I did like how he acknowledged Seven in the end (which I was expecting to happen by the end of the season in some fashion). I liked Shaw, but I didn't love the character like many others did, and he seemed to get lost in the shuffle as the series went on.
I liked seeing the Enterprise-D again, and the aside about the E.
I hope the finale has a more satisfying end than "Best of Both Worlds Part 2" and "Endgame". I hope that the O'Briens, Nurse Ogawa, Barclay, Wesley, and Guinan are in cameos. I know Pulaski is too much to ask for. I'm doubting there will be other DS9 characters now-though Jake as a news correspondent just seems like a no brainer. I am expecting Janeway though. With her relationship to the Borg and Seven, as well as her being mentioned several times, I can't see them not bringing her back.
Yes excellent point! Who better for them to ask about the biological stuff?
You raise a good question about the Changelings. I don't see why they just couldn't go with the Conspiracy parasites. I've read that initially they were supposed to be tied to the Borg anyway, so why not just make that happen for ST: PIC?
Whilst there is some intentional or unintentional allegory there, it is more ‘young are malleable, so maybe keep an eye what you stick in their heads’ and could just as easy allegorise radicalisation by religion, or nationalism, rather than the leap to ‘boomers vs young’ you express here. And of course the old guard save the day — this is the TNG crew having a last hurrah. That’s hardcoded in.
Secondly, they aren’t ‘brainwashed’ until the transmission is achieved, so it is a little more complex (and faster working over a group) than traditional story based brainwashing, being more akin to a virus that then makes you weak to it. The big jump is in how the human DNA can suddenly affect all these different species, whose brains likely mature at different rates. But there’s enough precedent to hand wave that easily enough.
Changelings teaming up with the Borg is down to more than just an alliance of old enemies. (Action figure smooshing)
It’s actually quite logical — as has been played on and talked about repeatedly this season, and as has been demonstrated since about 1997, they are both hive-mind species. They have a natural inclination to pooling their identity, and see it as a form of perfection. It’s about as logical as the partnership between National Socialism and Facism that we saw in the real world. Or Stalinist Socialism/Communism and Chinese Maoist Socialism/Communism. It’s an expression not only of ‘the enemy of my enemy is my friend’ but more speaks to their existing similarities in addition to their adversity to the federation.
Given that both the Borg and The Dominion exist as allegorised versions of Communism at some point in their inception, it isn’t too bad a plan. (And indeed forms of unfettered capitalism and nationalism at points — the ultimate consumer, and the the inherent xenophobia of the Founders)
The problem, as ever, is working out what our good guys are supposed to represent — it is after all about more than just individualism.
For themselves? Sure. But why would they want to directly empower a race that will with certainty pose a threat to the rest of the Great Link?