Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x09 - "Võx"

[sevenstars]

I hope Shelby is okay.

Shooting Shelby on screen was the highlight of the episode for me. That and the space fireworks.

 

[Scionz]

I *LOVED* this episode. I laughed. I cried. I couldn't sit down though it. I watched most of it standing. My god, this show just hits every note for me. Terry Matalas is a genius with how everything came together, along with a couple VERY VERY SMART retcons.

Mega Spoiler

Spoiler

I'm not someone who gets into characters that must or attached. Nor am I reactive to shows.

To Shaw's death, I said "no!" like 15 times. I couldn't believe it. I'm genuinely upset about it. He's by far the best new character to come out of the Picard era of TNG. It's not even close. Every other Picard creation is forgettable. Even Raffi who is a glorified extra this season.
Shaw was a keeper. There is was so much to do with him. It's a shame to see him go. But he went bravely and in his brief time in Trek, made a massive impact. Maybe quality not quantity is for the better sometimes.

Captain Shaw... we only knew you for a short while. But you were one of the best.

Spoiler

Great to see Shelby. Sad to see her go. I hope she survived but it doesn't look it. Bad way to go.
I wonder if the NCC-1701-F is the "final boss". D vs F. It sure got the visual passes to firmly place it in the Trek enterprise canon. And a new, non-Star Trek Online high resolution model. What an honor for it's creator!
Sad to hear about the fate of the Enterprise E. She was always my favorite. Worf was hilarious about it though.
I wonder if we'll see Alice Krige next episode. Just amazing to bring her back. I wonder if this is the System J-25 cube, which may be different than the Best of Both Worlds cube (even TNG brought that up in BoBW)? Or maybe there were two cubes in BoBW, the one that abducted Picard, and the one that attacked Earth later that Locutus transfered to? Basically I'm wondering if the Borg Queen from the 2360s has been sitting in that nebula for 35 years waiting for this moment.

 

[thribs]

Shooting Shelby on screen was the highlight of the episode for me. That and the space fireworks.

Those were just life long STO members.

 

[Jarvisimo]

These are not the Chabon-Hippie writers room S2 Borg trying to make them all nice and friendly. These are not the tamed Voyager Borg. These are the absolute horrific BORG, the original flavor. Troi's reaction is perfect as that's how anyone should react to a Borg Cube. This episode corrected the damage and nerfing to the Borg that Voyager did, and erases the asanine S2 Borg made friendly for todays softer audience.

Man, the writers room for S2 was the writers room for S3; Chabon was barely involved in S2, sadly, and Matalas came on board for S2 (you can read this in so many interviews!). No need for such loaded "hippie" language and nerdy flame wars rubbish.

Now on what you say about the Borg, yes it's a return to incomprehensible terror, but the plotting is so contrived and desultory - and very little to do with what TNG (or Trek at large) aspired to and delivered. All Good Things was an excellent finale not because of a focus on characters' deaths, but because of its statement of optimism.

This season - i just don't understand the adulation for it. It's just a dark painful and "kitchen sink" mess, sometimes nice but also just messy. It also feels of a piece with the last season of Westworld where midway through I realised everyone human we had met and knew in the past three and a half seasons were dead, and suddenly I wasn't sure what we meant to be caring about - the series became its own messy kitchen sink, where characters became chess pieces. We still have our core cast, thankfully, but I'm not actually sure the season is genuinely interested in them anymore, beyond being chess pieces?

 

[Scionz]

This is why Adama didn’t allow the Galactica to be interconnected with the rest of the fleet.

Want to know something real world funny and a little scary?
The Pentagon wants to network everything in the US Navy, and the Air Force, and all its drones together, and in the next 20 years, make half the Navy and half the air force unmanned drones controlled over that network.
Been saying for some time this seems like a genuinely terrible idea, squarely because of the Battlestar Galactica precedent (and some real world precedent). Glad to see it come up yet again in Trek.
GUESS WE'LL FIND OUT!

 

[firehawk12]

Another stray thought.

I know you can argue that the events of the last 8 episodes 'activated' Jack and made him aware of his Borg powers, but it's kind of funny that Vadic's entire storyline is rendered pointless by the fact that Jack just goes to the Collective on his own anyway.

 

[mattman8907]

Want to know something real world funny and a little scary?
The Pentagon wants to network everything in the US Navy, and the Air Force, and all its drones together, and in the next 20 years, make half the Navy and half the air force unmanned drones controlled over that network.
Been saying for some time this seems like a genuinely terrible idea, squarely because of the Battlestar Galactica precedent (and some real world precedent). Glad to see it come up yet again in Trek.
GUESS WE'LL FIND OUT!

well as Data said "I hope we die quickly." LOL.

 

[firehawk12]

And he very well may be. I'm just thinking that at some point in Episode 10 he...won't be anymore.

Honestly I had to rewatch just to see if Seven and Raffi were on the shuttle heading toward the D. Presumably they stayed behind to save Shaw, and give her a hero moment when she retakes the Titan.

 

[IRW Bloodwing]

Want to know something real world funny and a little scary?
The Pentagon wants to network everything in the US Navy, and the Air Force, and all its drones together, and in the next 20 years, make half the Navy and half the air force unmanned drones controlled over that network.
Been saying for some time this seems like a genuinely terrible idea, squarely because of the Battlestar Galactica precedent (and some real world precedent). Glad to see it come up yet again in Trek.
GUESS WE'LL FIND OUT!

No one ever remembers Skynet...

 

[Captain_Amasov]

Reminder to everyone that Skynet and Cyberdyne are real things.

 

[The Commander]

Man, the writers room for S2 was the writers room for S3

Yeah...but Akiva Goldsman was the main showrunner. Matalas departed early to work on season 3. He had nothing to do with the season finale.

 

[Scionz]

well as Data said "I hope we die quickly." LOL.

Actual LOL.

 

[trek.]

Random thought - if Shaw can be saved by using sevens nanoprobes that would be a pretty ironic twist considering his backstory.

 

[Quinton]

Well, the enemy ended up being precisely who I felt it had to be. So, no real reaction from me there - it just felt outright blatant on a personal basis. They handled the reveal rather neatly, though.

The episode itself is effing spectacular, I'll need to rewatch a couple of times before I decide where it rests between 8 and 10, but there's no way it's lower.

 

[thribs]

I thought they were going to “general order 24” Earth at the end. That would have been more impactful. Get Earth burning just like Mars.

 

[SolarisOne]

Gave it a 10, despite the Borg being the Big Bad. I'm just gonna go with it. I am SO glad I've seen the leaked screenshots and was prepared for the reveal, otherwise I would have been all OH, FOR FUCK'S SAKE! and it would have dampened my enjoyment.

Look, I know this whole season is a nostalgia extravaganza, but goddamn it, TNG was my first Trek. For a long time it WAS Star Trek to me. DS9 has since supplanted it as my favorite, but TNG was still my first.

(Sorry, not sorry, that Shaw took one in the chest, by the way--even if they bring him back somehow. That's what he gets for messing with Seven.)

 

[Jarvisimo]

Yeah...but Akiva Goldsman was the main showrunner. Matalas departed early to work on season 3. He had nothing to do with the season finale.

"Nothing" is an overstatement; the writers will have broke the season at the start, including Matalas, and enabled the situation he sought for S3 - and that's the impression the S2 SFX interview presents, where he is credited with the season too. It's not a zero sum game

WHEN SFX catches up with the cast and crew ofStar Trek: Picard, production has resumed on the final two episodes ofseason three. Announced at 2021’s Star Trek Day, filming took place consecutively with season two. Akiva Goldsman says there was always a plan for three seasons, but with “an opportunity for us to have spectacularly failed after one, and that would have been one and done.” As for more? “God knows what the future will bring.’ But for the moment, Goldsman and fellow executive producer and co-showrunner Terry Matalas are still very much entrenched in the final throes of season three as season two finally beams down.

“My inner fanboy is kind ofon fire with the stuffthat I’ve been able to do,” Matalas grins. “There’s a lot ofthings that I can’t talk about yet that I’m just bursting at the seams to talk about. There’s beenalot of absolutely legendary moments that have happened in the last year with no press yet.

“There are starship designs and things for the next two seasons that I’m really excited about...” He references Star Trek design veterans Jon Eaves and Doug Drexler joining forces with production designer Dave Blass to “take another look at starship nacelles”. He smiles: “It’s exciting.”

As with so much of Star Trek, it comes from a place of love - and specifically that the showrunners are lifelong fans. “A lot of what we were doing was making the show that 12-year-old us would have been just delighted by. It was, in large part, a kind of dice roll that there were enough folks like us out there that would also like it,” Goldsman laughs when asked about the response to Picard’s first season.
“We didn’t know if it would land and iffolks would enjoy it. If not... well, you know, we had given him a new body, thanks for playing.” On that note: with Jean-Luc Picard now reborn in a synthetic “golem” body, fans need not worry that it changes the character they know and love.

“No, it really doesn’t,’ Goldsman says. “It really was about rebirth and renewal. It’s not about Super Picard, he has no powers, there’s no enhancement that comes with being a synthetic, it’s a virtually non-material event. Moving forward, it really was about closure, solving some ghosts ofNext Gen past and starting fresh. So no ‘faster than a speeding bullet’ or super powers.”

FRIENDS REUNITED

Someone who does very much have powers, however, is the almost omnipotent super-being Q, once more played by John de Lancie and back to wreak havoc with the life of “Mon capitaine”. And he’s not the only returning character from The Next Generation lined up to cross Picard’s path. However, it’s never a “sreatest hits” model when it comes to bringing characters back.

“In season one, we really didn’t plan on having Jonathan [Frakes, as Riker],’ Goldsman reveals. “We were building a story. And then we have this moment where we needed a best friend, and that evolved into quite a beautiful moment where the story requires Jonathan to come back as an actor. He’s always with us as a director. So, season one: rebirth and renewal. _ Season two then became an exploration of the heart.

“When you're telling stories of folks who are in the last chapter oftheir life, the storytelling is different than if you’re writing about folks in _ their 20s, 30s, 40s, which is what we all typically do. What was kind of wonderful is, what remains unexpressed at the end of a life? And how do you manage some connectedness to those issues without being glib?

“Because you're not 20 and you’re having your character resolution in your arc, it’s not the origin of anything,” he continues. “So we looked into what remained outstanding for Jean-Luc Picard, because we’re historians... how could we not be when it comes to the character? We discovered that looking inward and looking backward became the direction we wanted to take.
“So from our palette, we chose colours _ that allowed us to do that, and so you have two things that are canonically interesting. One is Q and his ability to manoeuvre us through time and space and this very interesting relationship that he has with Picard, one that one might say has always been left unresolved.”

“He’s the first relationship on Star Trek: The Next Generation, really, that Picard had,” Matalas adds. “It was about how you tell a story about Q that’s unexpected, and not the same Loki-esque shenanigans that we are used to. How does it have real dramatic weight? And that was our jumping-off point.

“You will definitely see a side of Q you’ve never seen before. There’s some things going on with Q that are definitely surprising, considering the kind ofbeing he is. And how that would reflect on Jean-Luc Picard and what’s going on with his life at the moment. The first two episodes are a pretty wild ride,” he reveals.

“And you have Guinan,” Goldsman says, “who I won’t talk about much, but enough to say that no one has ever been more aware of divergences in time than she has. So as we start to talk about time and we start to talk about that which is the past, both objectively and internally, those two characters were these _ great gifts to us. So we keep trying to let the story pull in the folks that it wants.”

"1 can't talk too much about Guinan," Matalas adds, "but you might see a certain hat again..."
Guinan's not the only mysterious and seemingly eternal woman in Picard's life; there's also the return of the Borg Queen.

"I'm a very big fan of the Borg, and there was a time travel element to the season," Matalas explains. "One of the components was that the Borg have quite a bit of experience with time travel... This particular Borg Queen is unlike one we've seen in canon before. So a lot is going on with this Borg Queen that is very different There's lots of interesting Borg storytelling coming up. She's definitely not Alice Krige's Borg Queen. This Borg Queen has a very different history to her."
The number of returning characters is racking up between the first two seasons - so it would be remiss of SFX to not at least enquire about the chances of seeing more familiar faces in future...
Goldman grins. "I'm not going to give you any more spoilers, but I am going to say that by the time these three years are done, those that you know are coming will not be the last."

With a Star Trek legacy spanning 55 Earth years, while taking in thousands of years into the future, is the weight of canon a pressure on making a show like Picard?

"Not so much in season two," Matalas offers. "Definitely in season three, there are some game-changing Star Trek Universe ideas. Season two, as epic in scope as it is, is an intimate story."

Details for season three are firmly under wraps, but Matalas gives a little hint at what could be in store. "There are a few nods to the Kirk movies," he reveals. "I grew up with the original series and the Kirk movies. That's my Star Trek. So you'll see a few of those things kind of tie some Star Trek together. And I think Akiva has constructed a really fascinating and heartbreaking psychological exploration of Picard that no one is expecting?'

Goldsman laughs. "I have no words for you about season three except to say you should watch it."
In the meantime, fans have 10 new episodes of Picard to look forward to when season two launches in March. What would Goldsman and Matalas consider to be at the heart of the "difficult second album"?

"It's a time-travel story and all good time-travel tales are emotional at their core, and speak to something that's happening with your main character," Matalas explains.

"So we started by asking ourselves the question of season one: how do we deconstruct Captain Picard? What don't we know about him? Why is he on a vineyard by himself with a dog? Why did he never marry Beverly Crusher and have a family of 10? Those are jumping-off points to answer some of those personal mysteries"

"It will sound extraordinarily facile," Goldsman volunteers, "but the idea of season two of Picard is that the only thing that actually transcends time - and I don't mean time travel alone, I also mean emotional time, the kind of stuck in time that comes from trauma - the only thing that transcends time and which heals is love."

FUTURE NOSTALGIA

Their time on season three of Picard is shortly coming to an end, but the Star Trek Universe continues to expand - not least with Goldsman's Strange New Worlds due later this year. But where, if they could do anything at all, would they set a course for a future Star Trek series?

"I can't really say because I'm doing the one thing right now that I always wanted to do," Matalas says, cryptically. "Which is crazy, but I can't talk about it. I would do Star Trek forever under the right circumstances, and there's plenty."

Goldsman has a whole idea mapped out. "There's something that I like, which I think Robert Kirkman is doing right now with The Walking Dead, which is a kind of... I'll call it Tales Of The Federation, where you would just do one-offs, right? So you could bring George Takei back for an hour, and do a show about Sulu as an older man, or find Jonathan Archer having now retired from his Enterprise and being on Earth, just do these certain really interesting ones.

"You could grab anybody, from all the shows, because it's really hard to find enough for a series, but there are an endless amount of episodes, as anthology series are finding their way back. They were sort of a staple when I was a boy. A Star Trek-based one of those I. think would be super fun."

But what of the future for Picard or the characters in the series?

"Are there things in Picard that could be their own storytelling arc? Or their own storytelling spines?" Goldsman asks. "Yeah, for sure. Is that the direction of the expansion of the Star Trek Universe? That turns out to be above my pay grade:'

"What more is coming in that story?" Matalas ponders. "It's definitely my favourite time period. lb me, Star Trek: Picard is the present day of Star D-ek. And what's going on in that particular world is very important to me. So stay tuned, that's what I'll say."

Don't worry, we will....

John de Lancie Interview also shows Matalas's role:

What was the first conversation you had with Terry Matalas about returning as Q?

The first thing he said was, “I'm sure you expected this to take place.” | said, “Well, no, actually | didn't, Terry. There were many other opportunities along the way, with the movies and what have you, for this to take place, and it didn't. So | wasn't expecting It.” He said, “Well, we would like you to reprise your role.” | said, “Do you Nave any Intention of putting me in tights? Because that’s a game-stopper right there. | will not go back in tights.” He laughed and we just talked for a little bit of time. | wanted to explain to him what | thought was an important commodity of the characteristics. It was a character that was not intended to go any further than that first episode. It was, quite frankly, an afterthought. It was not intended actually even to be In the first episode of Next Generation. So why that character had become popular sort of eluded all of us.

What was it like stepping back into the shoes of Q?

It feels like light years. It wasn't very difficult. I’m playing sort of an arrogant jerk asshole, I’m a lot like that, | dare say. [Laughs] My discussion about the tights - although we never really wore tights, but it was that suit - that was a little bit of an oblique way of really asking, “How do you perceive this?” There’s something very dangerous, fraught with failure, in trying to recreate. That was one of the things in which | was particularly interested to hear what it was that they had in mina, because if it was to recreate, | was going to be concerned - but that’s not what they had in mind. So this is a different, yet another facet to this character. He’s just not quite as effervescent and as, dare | say, silly as he has been In the past. This is much more mature... he clearly has an agenda.

Clearly something is up, he doesn't have too much time to screw around. Perhaps he has something to deliver. So hopefully we have threaded that needle, and still provided the storytelling that's necessary and the catalyst, which is essentially what I am in this season.

What was your first scene opposite Patrick Stewart like?

[Laughs] It was fun. Within the confines of this show, it was an important moment, an important couple of moments. People came down to see it, in the same way for the last scene a lot of people did. When they said cut, I looked out and I went, "Oh my God." The place was filled with people who had drifted in to essentially watch this last scene. It was the same for the first scene. I did nine episodes of Star Trek. in the three shows. In some people's minds, it's 29. Rick
Berman told me, not particularly happily either, "About a fifth to a quarter of the submissions that we get for new story ideas are Q ideas." I said. "Well, that's not my fault." [Laughs]

Did you have any input Into how Q would be now?

I really appreciated this because this was very different than Next Gen where you were hired to say the words and not differentiate.

I was really pleased - all of us. the older cast as it were, have mentioned this, I was talking to Brent [Spiner] and Jonathan [Frakes]. They were very open to our suggestions. That didn't mean, "Well, let's get rid of the scene and do it a completely different way." They were very open to that. which I think is good, because in the end, it makes the material better. You have to create something that's new. But you also have to honour certain parts of what was - because we're now at a point where there's a tradition. there's a core. That is important. That is reflected mostly, as far as I'm concerned, by the audience. I'm not a Star Trek aficionado at alt. Obviously I know my character, but that's very limited. Everybody is trying to add to this continuum. [Grins] How's that?

Whatever happens, Q will never leave you as a character.

No. I am constantly reminded of a thing that Roddenberry said - which for a person who knows Star Trek will know I've said a bazillion times. About the third day of shooting, I was just standing there watching them setting up for another scene and this voice behind me said. "You have no idea what you've gotten yourself into." I turned around, and it was Gene Roddenberry, and I said, "Gene. what are you saying? What do you mean?" He goes, "Oh. you will find out. you will find out." So I understood it in the moment as being a compliment. He was giving me a compliment that they liked what they saw, I guess, on the dailies. But I have often thought about that. And here I am, 34 years later. talking about this character.

 

[Orac Zen]

Well.

It had to be the frelling Borg, didn't it? Granted, this was something quite different - and quite creepy, assimilation by stealth / transporter is a damned cool idea - but still. The Borg again. I'm nowhere near as fed up with them as I am with the bloody Daleks but something original might have been nice. Then again they're the enemy we all know and introducing something new would have presented its own problems. So...yeah.

The Jack reveal wasn't really worth the buildup, but given the Borg are the baddies they couldn't really have done it any other way, I suppose. It'll be interesting to see how Jack gets out of this in one piece. Great to hear Alice Krige, too.

Shelby! That was a blast from the past I didn't expect. Liked Picard's line about the irony of her - of all people - going along with the quite stupid fleet synchronisation idea. And of course synchronising every Starfleet ship (except, usefully, shuttles) couldn't possibly ever go wrong, could it?

Man, leadership at Starfleet are really bad about spotting potential threats or security issues.

Yes, they really are. Must be part of the "almost everyone becomes a complete idiot when they're promoted to admiral" thing.

After ranting about Shaw calling Seven the wrong name, hearing Seven refer to Data as "the robot" was...not good. Very inappropriate and not even slightly funny. I see the mileage of others varies. I'm not surprised.

Then the episode really grabbed me. Seeing the Enterprise-D was brilliant. It looked fabulous. The bridge beauty pass was both amusing and great. Then they outdid themselves.

AND IT'S MAJEL'S VOICE!!!!

...which was the point at which I lost it. Absolutely perfect, just completely right.

Cry fanwank or whatever term you like - the whole bit with the D was superb. The family really is complete again. Now to get their kids back.

Edit:

(Sorry, not sorry, that Shaw took one in the chest, by the way--even if they bring him back somehow. That's what he gets for messing with Seven.)

Seconded.

Edit 2: Accuracy.

 

[ToddCam]

I think the "I'm here for you" then run away thing for Troi was a really bad choice. I wanted there to be some real skill display for Troi as both a mental health professional and as a telepath. Everyone else has gotten a chance to be badass.

 

[Quinton]

I think the "I'm here for you" then run away thing for Troi was a really bad choice. I wanted there to be some real skill display for Troi as both a mental health professional and as a telepath. Everyone else has gotten a chance to be badass.

@fireproof78 called this out last week when they revealed that bit as the preview scene, yeah.