Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x08 - "Surrender"

[TerryTrek]

Like I said in my review, Seven made a grand gesture by remaining on the bridge to face the consequences.

But that didn't lead to anything. All she managed to do was avoid being sucked out by standing close to Jack. She had no agency. Jack did.

I did respect Shaw for saying that she should've blown them all out of the turbolift. She had agency at that point but didn't use it.

I think you need to rewatch the episode.

Jack is the hero of the episode. Seven stood by him as a supportive friend and crewmember, showing care for her crew. She didn't let him face this on his own. From a directorial POV, both were placed in direct opposition to the main villain and had the opportunity to land the defeating blow on her. To me, that telegraphs their potential importance as leads for the 'next next generation' or 'Legacy' if it ever happens (doubtful). We'll find out where episode 10 leaves us off.

And Seven not blowing them out the Turbolift shows some positive character progression for her. Righting of the ship.

In Season One, she literally beamed to a random planet and started murdering people by shooting them in the back, Punisher style. They really put her character in a bad place. S3 Seven shows much growth from that.

 

[Racefuel]

I wish they would decide on what gender spot is.

We at least know that Spot 3 was male and was the last spot.

Final Spot is Superior Spot. Spot saved the Federation, put respect on Spots name.

 

[Mr Awe]

Given SPS has indicated that despite the original plan for S3 to be the end that its not impossible there could be another season or such...I don't think so.

I think we'll get an epilogue or such that tells us what happens to "the family".

I know. That's been mentioned to me several times. Perhaps a misdirection.

We'll see. I could well be wrong. I wouldn't put money on it. But it feels thematically correct to me.

 

[Orac Zen]

Then again Lore is a prick

To put it kindly.

Who would have thought it was Spot that saved the Federation

Cats rule. And they know it.

they discussed it in a very adult way I might add... no name-calling, no accusations, just a deep understanding of each other and themselves, and owning their mistakes. It was really refreshing

Indeed. Troi / Riker has turned into a really good, credible relationship in those few scenes. Their discussion was a grown-up one between people who know each other very well and who really want to work things out. The fact Sirtis and Frakes absolutely nailed those scenes didn't hurt, either. Really, really good stuff.

 

[Racefuel]

I know. That's been mentioned to me several times. Perhaps a misdirection.

We'll see. I could well be wrong. I wouldn't put money on it. But it feels thematically correct to me.

It is themeatically logical and wouldn't be jarring, you're correct.

 

[TerryTrek]

The fact Sirtis and Frakes absolutely nailed those scenes didn't hurt, either. Really, really good stuff.

I liked how they were playfully insulting each other. They seemed like actual people in an actual long-term relationship.

Great chemistry, but also whoever wrote the dialogue understands character interactions quite well.

Brent is an extremely sarcastic, very snarky and charming man. Fantastic conversationalist and I'm thinking at this point Data is less ..Data but more Brent Spiner playing Data playing Brent Spiner

Which honestly, has a lot of potential and makes me quite happy. Spiner could be the 'Robert Downey Jr' of Star Trek with his real personality onscreen. A scene stealer.

 

[fireproof78]

In Season One, she literally beamed to a random planet and started murdering people by shooting them in the back, Punisher style. They really put her character in a bad place. S3 Seven shows much growth from that.

They put her in a lawless area.

Doesn't get much worse.

That she has grown is nice but I won't say she was terrible in Season 1.

 

[Mr Awe]

S3 Seven shows much growth from that.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I love Seven as a character. But have been disappointed with how she's faded into the background. And she didn't use her agency when it was possible and then didn't have it later. You snooze you lose, I guess.

That said, I would love to see a series with her and Jack and others going along with the idea of the Legacy series. So, we do agree on that point.

 

[CrockAlley]

The red glowing eyes is why

That seems very flimsy considering how seriously some folks seem have taken the theory.

 

[James Cole]

You need to watch more TOS (and honestly, they did it a few times in TNG too.) As they often say - "It comes with the job."

True. That said, one thing I really appreciated that was new in ENT was taking casualties seriously. Here it would have even tied in with Shaw's reluctance to put his crew in danger... actually have him grapple with the result, and tie it in with his Wolf 359 trauma.

 

[Racefuel]

They put her in a lawless area.

Doesn't get much worse.

That she has grown is nice but I won't say she was terrible in Season 1.

No, not terrible at all. Disillusioned, yes of course. Where Picard still had faith in people and in goodness, Seven did not after Icheb died and Starfleet refused her despite Janeway pushing.

 

[jackoverfull]

We're still two episodes from the end of Picard, but for me personally, the best thing Terry Matalas has done is to

Spoiler

bring Data back—oh, and give Spot a role in defeating Lore.

After seeing that, I'm okay with anything that follows.

yes, it was really well done and kinda puts in perspective his second death in season one without diminishing it in any way. Some great writing here!

Also, I feel this episode solves the previously supposed contradiction with the events of Nepenthe, I have no objections at all.

 

[Commander K]

Also asides from Stewart, Burton, Frakes playing themselves....Sirtis does too! Couldnt help throw in that Cockney accent a few times in her dialogue

 

[Racefuel]

True. That said, one thing I really appreciated that was new in ENT was taking casualties seriously. Here it would have even tied in with Shaw's reluctance to put his crew in danger... actually have him grapple with the result, and tie it in with his Wolf 359 trauma.

I appreciate that Shaw is a genuine human being and not a marble model. We've not really seen genuine survivors guilt being represented, especially about Wolf 359.

Sisko had it, but that was more so mourning his wife..he didn't seem bothered that he survived while the majority of the Saratogas crew was dead, including her captain. Shaw, being a snot nosed very junior officer at Wolf 359 survived by random luck and being picked, without merit, to survive by virtue of being at the escape pod at the right time

 

[TerryTrek]

They put her in a lawless area.

Doesn't get much worse.

That she has grown is nice but I won't say she was terrible in Season 1.

Just randomly beaming down shooting people in the back like Frank Castle... let's just say, the S3 showrunner has a more flattering take on Seven thankfully.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I love Seven as a character. But have been disappointed with how she's faded into the background. And she didn't use her agency when it was possible and then didn't have it later. You snooze you lose, I guess.

That said, I would love to see a series with her and Jack and others going along with the idea of the Legacy series. So, we do agree on that point.

Ultimately this is more Jack's story than hers, so I understand why she takes a supporting role here. This is the Picard series afterall.

Whether the Legacy series happens or not (I don't think it will, Kurtzman has other priorities), we'll get some satisfying ends for these characters in these last two hours. Apparently Ep 10 leaves them off in a good place.

 

[jackoverfull]

Haha!!! Indeed. I think Lore wasn't wrong to feel slighted but when you choose to express those feelings by becoming a homicidal (genocidal?) maniac, well.....

by the way, I love how the hug scene reflects the one in Enemy Within. Data may be artificial but he’s no less human.

You do realize that Seven didn't do anything in this episode. All she did was stand next to Jack to avoid being sucked out!

I love Seven, but unfortunately her character is fading to the background after a very strong start.

No, not satisfying.

sadly true. Still, I’m noticing more and more of old 7’s mannerisms emerging and I did that.

 

[fireproof78]

Just randomly beaming down shooting people in the back like Frank Castle... let's just say, the S3 showrunner has a more flattering take on Seven thankfully.

Please...she did what she had to do. What she did with the Hirogen.

No, not terrible at all. Disillusioned, yes of course. Where Picard still had faith in people and in goodness, Seven did not after Icheb died and Starfleet refused her despite Janeway pushing.

Precisely so. And people forgot how calculating Seven could be in Voyager. She wasn't this fragile flower.

 

[Noname Given]

Okay, while I do understand the idea that Picard/Jack could be seen as "the next phase of human evolution.."

Sooo. Jack Crusher is a New Type??!! Incoming Mobile Suit Gundam/Star Trek TNG crossover CONFIRMED!
(And if you're not into Anime, just ignore the above - you won't get it )

 

[Commander K]

Raffi and Worf - Section 31 series.....make it happen

 

[Racefuel]

Sooo. Jack Crusher is a New Type??!! Incoming Mobile Suit Gundam/Star Trek TNG crossover CONFIRMED!
(And if you're not into Anime, just ignore the above - you won't get it )

My knowledge of anime stops at FMA and basically anything else that was on Adult Swim in the 2000's