Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x04 - "No Win Scenario"

[Saul]

Very good episode. Although the reviews of it had my expectations set even higher.

Could Vadic be Shinzon's mother? I know he is a clone but he had to be born somehow...

Borg Vs Changlings finally!

On the holodeck with Jack, JL pulls out a bottle of Chateau Picard as if it's the real article. Unless he was carrying it in his prison wallet (unlikely- admit it! ), this would merely be holodeck-created synthehol, same as the faux-Jameson they wound up drinking instead.

Wondering that myself. Was it beamed into the holodeck once the program started? I mean, it would be pointless to put a year on the bottle if it's not actually real. I doubt the holodeck could actually replicate the conditions that the wine was made under. It would make wine making totally pointless. As for Jameson, why even have a brand of whiskey on a holodeck? It's funny too that in the 25th century a bottle of Jameson looks exactly as it does today. Nice bit of promotion anyway....

And Jameson is called cheap

Depends what country you go to. I have found it to be more expensive in Ireland and a lot cheaper in other countries. Surely in the 25h Century it's free since money doesn't exist.

 

[RuleofAcuisition17]

Holy. Shit.

Just... wow. I can see why Matalas was saying how this episode was going to really come home with the show so far. It certain feels like the high point.

Shaw's actions and behaviours, even the more reprehensible ones suddenly become entirely justified.

40 of your close friends, people you knew, hung out with, cared for and then you get picked at entirely random to be one of the survivors.

After all that, and being faced with your trauma writ large in Picard coming to your ship and demand things of you, you're damn right you'd be pissed too.

I really enjoyed this episode.

Vadic being revealed as a Changeling too was great.

And aren't the new, disgusting CGI effects of the changelings is absolutely fantastic and slimey and oozy.

So could we have a Seven/Shaw show already? Ideally with the episodes directed by Frakes?

That'd be nice.

EDIT: Also a special "fuck you" to TrekCulture youtube channel for spoilering Shaw's backstory in their video. Every other week they've been good and the thumbnails gave away nothing, this week they couldn't help themselves and went with this:

I avoid coming here the day before generally because I know I won't be able to help myself and click either the episode thread or the general discussion where spoilers always are.

Don't appreciate being spoiled in a ruddy youtube thumbnail.

 

[mattman8907]

So could we have a Seven/Shaw show already? Ideally with the episodes directed by Frakes?

That'd be nice.

I would be all for that but we still got Six episodes left and a lot of story to get through so i'll reserve this discussion for after the season finale.

 

[RuleofAcuisition17]

I would be all for that but we still got Six episodes left and a lot of story to get through so i'll reserve this discussion for after the season finale.

Two episodes birthed the entirety of Stange New Worlds.

GREENLIGHT IT ALREADY.

 

[Lord Garth]

Two episodes birthed the entirety of Stange New Worlds.

GREENLIGHT IT ALREADY.

If someone else doesn't start the petition, I will.

It'll be fun. I've never actually tried something like that before.

 

[Yistaan]

Could Vadic be Shinzon's mother? I know he is a clone but he had to be born somehow...

Vadic's supposedly connected to Picard's TNG past, yet also obviously has a strong connection to the Changelings if she's not already a changeling herself (the talk with her boss thing is unclear if she's cutting herself or her glove). That's not a lot to go on. Picard was irrelevant in the Dominion War as TNG ended before it began. The closest connections he has are dating Vash who then ditched him to adventure with Q in the Gamma Quadrant, and beating up the Son'a who sided with the Dominion. Vadic's too old to be Picard's daughter with Vash or Anij (but then they did cast Ed Speleers as Jack so who knows) so it's really hard to see who Vadic could be from Picard's past.

 

[RuleofAcuisition17]

Vadic's supposedly connected to Picard's TNG past, yet also obviously has a strong connection to the Changelings if she's not already a changeling herself (the talk with her boss thing is unclear if she's cutting herself or her glove).

She cuts her entire hand off.

 

[Yistaan]

She cuts her entire hand off.

And here everyone was telling me Vadic *couldn't* be a changeling because she smoked. I don't see who she could be other than the Female Changeling, although it's odd she's taking orders now if she is indeed her.

 

[Oso Blanco]

We could say the same about alcohol, but we rarely put these in the same category for some reason.

Alcoholic beverages are normally being consumed for their taste, marijuana is being consumed to get high ... which in my mind puts it right in league with any other drug.

 

[firehawk12]

And here everyone was telling me Vadic *couldn't* be a changeling because she smoked. I don't see who she could be other than the Female Changeling, although it's odd she's taking orders now if she is indeed her.

I thought it was because it was only her hand that was the changeling.

 

[SJGardner]

I was thinking that maybe her fake hand wasn't even a whole changeling but a part of one, somehow able to communicate with the other part through subspace, perhaps helped by some technology.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Depends what country you go to. I have found it to be more expensive in Ireland and a lot cheaper in other countries. Surely in the 25h Century it's free since money doesn't exist.

It's usually the cheapest in an Irish bar along with Paddy and Powers. It will be the cheapest whiskey that's not pure bathtub hobo muck in an off license.

But that's not because it's "cheap" in the way Jack describes it's just because it's close to source unaged and mass produced. It's more expensive in Ireland than other countries because all alcohol is very expensive in Ireland.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

I was thinking that maybe her fake hand wasn't even a whole changeling but a part of one, somehow able to communicate with the other part through subspace, perhaps helped by some technology.

Ya that's what I was thinking. A subspace link to the great link.

I did find it odd, unnecessary and a bit typical of these shows that she had to cut it off with a knife. We get it she's evil.

 

[Lord Hobbers]

You probably don't have to be 21 to get into Ten-Forward. Otherwise, that leaves out a lot of freshman, sophomore, and junior Cadets who would be 18-20.

Agreed. Who's to say that the Federation follows American licencing laws? In Europe, it's perfectly acceptable to see teenagers in pubs (although you do have to be 18 to purchase alcohol).

 

[Eckauskas]

That was the best episode of the season so far, really enjoyed that from start to finish. Not cutting to Worf and Raffi throughout made the whole thing feel more complete.

So how old is Shaw then? Wolf 359 would’ve been nearly 40 years prior and he’d surely had to have been in his twenties to be serving on board a starship. I definitely wouldn’t have said he was in his sixties. Or even late fifties.

 

[Mike Doyle]

Or it’s just part of the leader; allowing her to communicate with it over long distances.

That was my take. Some kind of secure long range comms using entangled particles from two parts of the same changeling.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Agreed. Who's to say that the Federation follows American licencing laws? In Europe, it's perfectly acceptable to see teenagers in pubs (although you do have to be 18 to purchase alcohol).

Earth of the 25th century is supposed to be a more civilized place so definitely won't be using stupid US licensing law

 

[Lord Hobbers]

To be honest, I don't see the holodeck as having its own independent power source as being an issue. Let's not forget that Voyager (and all other late 24th Century starships) were equipped with holographic doctors, specifically for use in an emergency. So it kind of makes sense for the holographic systems to be separate.

 

[Lord Hobbers]

That was the best episode of the season so far, really enjoyed that from start to finish. Not cutting to Worf and Raffi throughout made the whole thing feel more complete.

So how old is Shaw then? Wolf 359 would’ve been nearly 40 years prior and he’d surely had to have been in his twenties to be serving on board a starship. I definitely wouldn’t have said he was in his sixties. Or even late fifties.

Ageing is very different in Star Trek. Let's not forget that Picard is almost 100 by this point. If we consider that Picard was supposed to be in his 60s in TNG, then it's perfectly believable that Shaw is too.

 

[TOMFAN]

RIKER: "In case it should become necessary to fight, could you arrange to find me some rocks to throw at them?"

I never expected to get a sequel to Contagion after all this time!