Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x04 - "No Win Scenario"

[Yistaan]

To be fair, you can attend the academy at any age. See McCoy and Vulcans.



He's said to be about 24, which means he's older for his age but not that young.

You seem to be missing the point of what I said in the reverse direction. It was never established that Jack Crusher was as old as Picard as before, and the implication was always he was a bit younger if he served under Picard in the Stargazer, roughly the same age as Beverly.

Even if Jack started Academy at 13 years old like Kelvin Chekov (assuning Kelvin Chekov took 4 years) and immediately hung out with upperclassman Picard, he'd still be 11 years older than Beverly.

If Jack is 23 or 24, that'd put his birth between Insurrection and Nemesis. I mean if you take the exact words of Picard dialogue you could probably forcibly fit this somehow but the entire seeming intention of the circumstances of Jack's birth seemingly put it after Nemesis and it stretches plausibility to the extreme that Beverly hid a pregnancy and then Jack's birth and then the infant himself between Insurrection and Nemesis.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I'm going to re-watch, but I actually totally get this. IIRC, he even says Beverly is free with the meds. If you think your judgement is impaired, don't put yourself in certain situations. I work on Wall Street and I've almost made enormous errors when I was younger because I thought could handle the meds, I thought. (1- Broken leg, hydrocodone. 2- post surgery, pain killers.) Yeah, no.

Thank goodness for a "four eyes/two people" rule. So, now years later as a manager myself, personally, I can totally understand why he wouldn't take back command. It may not be OBVIOUS, but not being 100% can devastate judgement calls without you realizing it.

We all think forklifts when it says "Don't operate heavy machinery".

It's a good thing he didn't ask for command back from Riker after he got extra pain meds.

He just sulked in the bar and his quarters until he was needed.

 

[Jedi Marso]

One little plot-hiccup:

On the holodeck with Jack, JL pulls out a bottle of Chateau Picard as if it's the real article. Unless he was carrying it in his prison wallet (unlikely- admit it! ), this would merely be holodeck-created synthehol, same as the faux-Jameson they wound up drinking instead.

On the point people are making about the possible age-disparity between Picard and Jack Crusher (the elder), it is possible that they were relative peers aboard the Stargazer before the incident in which Picard took command and used the Picard Maneuver to win the day. At that point, he becomes a neophyte rockstar and his career takes off, while his friend Jack eventually tragically perishes under his command.

 

[Lord Garth]

Something about Shaw reminds me of Caputo from Orange Is the New Black. Just the general way he comes off.

 

[SG-17]

Now I wonder if Vadic is actually a changeling or not. Maybe part changeling? Why would it hurt her to separate part of herself like that and why would she need a knife to do it?

 

[GeorgeKirk]

The Borg have been known to the Federation for over 30 years at this point. Everyone knows that ex-Borg are victims. Sisko's antipathy toward Picard was more understandable because it was only 2 years later and the whole thing was maybe harder for people to understand. I understand that Shaw is traumatized, but his willfully holding on to prejudice against victims of the Borg just makes him seem especially awful. It's like he's BSG character that got dumped into Star Trek.

 

[Ralph O Ward III]

Loved the little tidbit about the Hirogen making it to the Alpha Quadrant and Picard fighting them.

Right along with the Kazon in prodigy

 

[ToddCam]

Huh. I could buy Armus as being some cast-off of the Founders. They were "beautiful" looking like honey, fitting with Armus's description of its creators, and now they look like chunky diarrhea as they get more tainted. Eventually they may turn into black sludge.

I think they did a little de-aging to Jack in the flashback. I think I know why I have so much trouble with seeing him as young as his character is. I know what a young Ed Speleers looks like from Eragon. I think giving him a mussier hairstyle might have helped.

 

[HotRod]

I mentioned this in the "Shaw thread" but I'll bring it up here. It seems pretty clear that they based the character of Captain Shaw on Quint from Jaws, played by Robert Shaw. His whole speech about Wolf 359 was definitely his "USS Indianapolis" moment. Not exactly the most original of thinking on behalf of the writers, but still enjoyed. Hopefully Shaw doesn't meet the same fate as his "ancestor".

 

[Lakenheath 72]

About Shaw's psychological issues, there are always cracks in a bureaucracy that someone with these issues can slip through. At least in his case, and as far as we know, he didn't go out of his way to harm his crew. The most extreme case of an individual I know of who slipped through the cracks and suffered from serious psychological issues was a pilot on a Germanwings flight. He did a suicide-murder when he crashed the plane into a mountainside, killing himself and 149 passengers and crew.
Germanwings Flight 9525 - Wikipedia

 

[fireproof78]

but his willfully holding on to prejudice against victims of the Borg just makes him seem especially awful.

Yup. It's like he's human, encountering a trigger he didn't expect. Almost like Stiles. He's like a TOS character in TNG era.

I mentioned this in the "Shaw thread" but I'll bring it up here. It seems pretty clear that they based the character of Captain Shaw on Quint from Jaws, played by Robert Shaw. His whole speech about Wolf 359 was definitely his "USS Indianapolis" moment. Not exactly the most original of thinking on behalf of the writers, but still enjoyed. Hopefully Shaw doesn't meet the same fate as his "ancestor".

*sighs* Well, I guess they have to take inspiration somewhere.

 

[Tomalak]

If Jack is 23 or 24, that'd put his birth between Insurrection and Nemesis. I mean if you take the exact words of Picard dialogue you could probably forcibly fit this somehow but the entire seeming intention of the circumstances of Jack's birth seemingly put it after Nemesis and it stretches plausibility to the extreme that Beverly hid a pregnancy and then Jack's birth and then the infant himself between Insurrection and Nemesis.

Yeah, everything makes more sense if it’s set a few years later. I think they cocked up the date for Frontier Day - Dave Blass seemed to think it was set in 2411 a few weeks ago, until Terry confirmed it was 2401 and marking the anniversary of the NX-01 launch.

It still just about fits, but there’s not much room to breathe. Everyone must have been mega horny after Nemesis.

 

[Tuskin38]

The Borg have been known to the Federation for over 30 years at this point. Everyone knows that ex-Borg are victims. Sisko's antipathy toward Picard was more understandable because it was only 2 years later and the whole thing was maybe harder for people to understand. I understand that Shaw is traumatized, but his willfully holding on to prejudice against victims of the Borg just makes him seem especially awful. It's like he's BSG character that got dumped into Star Trek.

People slip through the cracks.

Dave Blass seemed to think it was set in 2411 a few weeks ago,

No he said 2401 like Terry later confirmed.

 

[Lt Mo]

Fwiw re: Jack Crusher the Younger’s age, he was supposed to be born post-Nemesis and Terry M basically admitted in an interview that the timing doesn’t work for him to be23-24, but that this was the story he wanted to tell so get over it (paraphrasing my recollection of his words, not mine)

 

[GeorgeKirk]

Now I wonder if Vadic is actually a changeling or not. Maybe part changeling? Why would it hurt her to separate part of herself like that and why would she need a knife to do it?

I saw speculation that maybe she's a solid but her hand is a Changeling. Which would be really hilarious if she were to get in a fistfight.

 

[Tomalak]

No he said 2401 like Terry later confirmed.

Oh yeah, you’re right, it was Memory Alpha that decided it was 2411 based on the incorrect assumption that Frontier Day was marking the founding of the Federation.

 

[Tomalak]

Fwiw re: Jack Crusher the Younger’s age, he was supposed to be born post-Nemesis and Terry M basically admitted in an interview that the timing doesn’t work for him to be23-24, but that this was the story he wanted to tell so get over it (paraphrasing my recollection of his words, not mine)

And in fairness he doesn’t confirm or deny Picard’s assumption of his age, so maybe he is 21.

 

[Lord Garth]

It's 2401. The 78XXX stardate backs it up. TOS stardates don't mean shit, but TNG stardates do.

Like I said, they've fudged things with Jack's age for dramatic purposes.

So, yeah, the 250th Anniversary will pretty much be the anniversary of the NX-01's launch.

 

[Gepard]

I saw speculation that maybe she's a solid but her hand is a Changeling. Which would be really hilarious if she were to get in a fistfight.

There's a short story, "Leg" by Brian Evenson, about a starship captain whose prosthetic leg is actually a symbiotic shape-shifting alien. Things go badly for her ship and crew (that is, homicide and, eventually, the complete destruction of the ship) once it becomes clear just how strong an influence it has over her.

Evenson is niche enough that I can't imagine the writers are aware of him, but I'll be interested to see if this plays out similarly.

 

[Yistaan]

Yeah, everything makes more sense if it’s set a few years later. I think they cocked up the date for Frontier Day - Dave Blass seemed to think it was set in 2411 a few weeks ago, until Terry confirmed it was 2401 and marking the anniversary of the NX-01 launch.

It still just about fits, but there’s not much room to breathe. Everyone must have been mega horny after Nemesis.

If they dated Frontier Day as the anniversary of the Coalition of Planets in 2155, it probably would've worked out roughly. As it is now literally 3 months at the most passed since season 2 and Jack's stated age doesn't match up with the timeline given by Matalas.