Discovery ending with Season 5

[fireproof78]

In a world of empaths, psychics and Godlike aliens, I don’t see the problem.

Empaths, psychics, faster than light travel, the literal devil, godlike aliens, evolving in to godlike aliens, thought as the basis of reality, disembodied spirits, thought transference, android bodies for thought transference, spirit transference, allowing genocide, rape by noncoporeal spirts and the best of all killing your crew and blowing up the ship to spite alien powers!

 

[Crazyewok]

Remember when an old God got mad that his mortal wife died and erased an entire species?

That's okay because Rick Berman did it. Because Alex K does it, it's a no-no.

It was one lousy episode. Not a entire series.


A entire series just to end with it being a crying alien. And that was at point everyone was already making jokes about discovery having peoples cry all the time.

 

[Tuskin38]

It was one lousy episode. Not a entire series.

So?

 

[fireproof78]

So?

See below

That's okay because Rick Berman did it. Because Alex K does it, it's a no-no.

A entire series just to end with it being a crying alien

The power of grief and trauma and loss does not compel you?

 

[DarKush]

Remember when an old God got mad that his mortal wife died and erased an entire species?

That's okay because Rick Berman did it. Because Alex K does it, it's a no-no.

Speaking for myself here, but that TNG episode wasn't that memorable, but I suppose it told a succinct story in one episode, and if you didn't like it-I barely remember it-you got a different episode next week. I found the Burn storyline underwhelming in large part due to the DISCO's storytelling structure which was built all around it. The Burn was established to be something important, worth investing multiple episodes on, and for it to be a distressed child missing their mom, it felt like a waste, when more could've been done to explore the 32nd century, the 32nd century Federation, Emerald Chain, etc.

I had my gripes about DISCO, but I've bought all four seasons on home video, and I felt that the way the show was built meant that the swings it took would knock the ball out of the park or turn out to be big misses. The Burn was a big miss for me. Species-10C was more worthy of a season long investment (though I felt they dragged that storyline out way too long). I preferred how DISCO set up their first two seasons, with two mini-arcs rather than one long drawn out mega story.

Some might feel that the exploration of trauma or grief was enough, but that seems to be about the only thing live-action new Trek seems eager to explore in depth.

 

[fireproof78]

Some might feel that the exploration of trauma or grief was enough, but that seems to be about the only thing live-action new Trek seems eager to explore in depth.

Good! I'm sorry but this drives me crazy the way people dismiss trauma and grief response as something that shouldn't be explorer, or should be explored and then warped off to never to be spoken of again (looking at you Voyager for fuck's sake!) I get that's not for you, but given the current mental health crisis in the United States (among other places; sorry I only work in one) I think it's completely appropriate to explore.

Secondarily, I also don't go in to these seasons as seasons like previous shows. These are episodes told over a season. I can disagree with the structure, but it's something that I've seen every single streaming show I watch lag a bit when it's 10 episodes, and the story hits the middle. I had it with Daredevil, I had it with the Mandalorian (shudders) and I had it with Discovery.

 

[Crazyewok]

So?

Well one episode if it's bad you have at worst wasted 45 minutes of your life.

With Discovery if you invest in a full season and it doesn't pay off by having a lousy ending you have wasted 10 odd hours.
That's why I wont watch 4 or 5. I'm not investing my time further as I cant trust it wont be a further waste.. I,m not one to hate watch.

See below





The power of grief and trauma and loss does not compel you?

No not really.

 

[Tuskin38]

That's why I wont watch 4

Season 4 is way better than Season 3, and it does not end like Season 3 does.

 

[ED-209]

Season 4 is way better than Season 3, and it does not end like Season 3 does.

Apart from the last 3 episodes it was abysmal, on par with season 3 at best.

 

[fireproof78]

Well one episode if it's bad you have at worst wasted 45 minutes of your life.

Wasted time is hard to recover from, though 45 minutes or 10 hours is not really a big difference to me if it is truly a "waste."

No not really.

Fair enough. You have decided it is a waste. Makes perfect sense, even if I 100% disagree.

 

[Kahloke]

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Gonna double down on this. I loved the concept, and dig the performer. The structure of the arc failed both.

Gotta rewatch The Nutty Professor. Gold.

 

[ananta]

It was one lousy episode. Not an entire series.

“Survivors”? Lousy? I love that episode and consider it an unsung classic. Reminds me of TOS in a number of ways.

Apart from the last 3 episodes it was abysmal, on par with season 3 at best.

Abysmal? Really? For me it was a solid and rather beautiful season of Trek. If the show had ended there it would have gone out on a high.

 

[TRON JA307020]

STD had writing?
I though they just threw random shit as a wall to see what stuck thrn tied it together with crying and Burnham monologues

Hey crazy. I agree. Pretty funny. Lol

 

[Nerys Myk]

It was one lousy episode. Not a entire series.


A entire series just to end with it being a crying alien. And that was at point everyone was already making jokes about discovery having peoples cry all the time.

Still not seeing the problem. Your objection is what exactly? The “crying”? We see characters with psychic powers emotionally lash out on purpose and accidentally through out the franchise. Including Sarek in the episode “Sarek.”. Frankly it being an evil plot by evil aliens to accomplish evils goals would have been a bigger disappointment. This was more in tune with the supposed themes and goals of Star Trek, IMO.

The power of grief and trauma and loss does not compel yo

No not really.

Sounds like a you “problem” rather than a problem with the show.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I liked Season 3 way better than Season 4.

The rebuilding of the Federation was, IMHO, way more interesting than all that Dark Matter Anomaly crap.

 

[JoseNoodles]

Remember when an old God got mad that his mortal wife died and erased an entire species?

That's okay because Rick Berman did it. Because Alex K does it, it's a no-no.

And in the Douwd's case, he did it intentionally. At least Su'Kal did not mean to cause the Burn.

 

[fireproof78]

And in the Douwd's case, he did it intentionally. At least Su'Kal did not mean to cause the Burn.

Yeah, it's a bitter pill to swallow from the episode:
KEVIN: Yes. I saw her broken body. I went insane. My hatred exploded, and in an instant of grief I destroyed the Husnock.
CRUSHER: Why did you try to hide this from all of us? Was it out of guilt for not helping Rishon and the others when they were alive?
KEVIN: No, no, no, no. You don't understand the scope of my crime. I didn't kill just one Husnock, or a hundred, or a thousand. I killed them all. All Husnock everywhere. Are eleven thousand people worth fifty billion? Is the love of a woman worth the destruction of an entire species? This is the sin I tried so hard to keep you from learning now. Why I wanted to chase you from Rana.
PICARD: We're not qualified to be your judges. We have no law to fit your crime. You're free to return to the planet and to make Rishon live again.

Such insanity is apparently to just be ignored and left alone, by Picard's reckoning.

 

[DarKush]

Good! I'm sorry but this drives me crazy the way people dismiss trauma and grief response as something that shouldn't be explorer, or should be explored and then warped off to never to be spoken of again (looking at you Voyager for fuck's sake!) I get that's not for you, but given the current mental health crisis in the United States (among other places; sorry I only work in one) I think it's completely appropriate to explore.

Secondarily, I also don't go in to these seasons as seasons like previous shows. These are episodes told over a season. I can disagree with the structure, but it's something that I've seen every single streaming show I watch lag a bit when it's 10 episodes, and the story hits the middle. I had it with Daredevil, I had it with the Mandalorian (shudders) and I had it with Discovery.

You went from zero to sixty here. I didn't say that trauma and grief should never be explored, but I do feel that new Trek (live-action) has a tendency to overdo it.

And while that's fine with some, and to some extent with me as well, I also can see and understand, and to some extent, agree with the sentiment that with all the trauma and grief in the real world, that entertainment need not always reflect it or plumb the depths of it.

Just about every Trek iteration that I can think of has also addressed trauma and grief (I haven't looked at enough TAS to be honest), so that's not something that that only new Trek does, but it does seem to be a go-to and sometimes unnecessary (I personally didn't need Picard's impetus to become a great explorer to be tied to some personal family trauma. What happened to the sense of wonder, optimism, curiosity, and so forth? Why couldn't he be driven, or mostly driven, by those things?). Sometimes it feels that new Trek (especially with PIC) just slather on trauma because they can't think of anything else to write, or figure out new ways to make their characters, even decades-old characters like Picard, interesting to write (for them, even though this wasn't a problem for TNG writers or all the people who have written novels and comics over the years).

I do think DISCO has dealt with trauma and grief better than PIC, but they also have the advantage of being largely new characters. PIC has tried to graft traumatic backstories or character arcs onto some characters that have been around for decades, and I don't think it always meshes well.

 

[eschaton]

To me part of the issue is all the characters respond the same to trauma. In real life, there are people who just trudge through horrors with little complaint, or are uptight and repressed. We need some characters like Worf, O'Brien, or Odo for diversity's sake.

 

[fireproof78]

You went from zero to sixty here. I didn't say that trauma and grief should never be explored, but I do feel that new Trek (live-action) has a tendency to overdo it.

I mean, I guess so, but I don't see how.

What happened to the sense of wonder, optimism, curiosity, and so forth? Why couldn't he be driven, or mostly driven, by those things?

Because the writers are not driven by these things.

I do think DISCO has dealt with trauma and grief better than PIC, but they also have the advantage of being largely new characters. PIC has tried to graft traumatic backstories or character arcs onto some characters that have been around for decades, and I don't think it always meshes well.

Mileage will vary, but I'm less focused on Picard because that's further outside my interest due to strong disinterest in the TNG cast, and it took Season 1 (and partially 2) to get me to appreciate Picard as a character. So that trauma hook did something there.

To me part of the issue is all the characters respond the same to trauma. In real life, there are people who just trudge through horrors with little complaint, or are uptight and repressed. We need some characters like Worf, O'Brien, or Odo for diversity's sake.

I don't. I've seen enough of it to piss me off for the rest of my life. "Trudging through" is no longer acceptable to me and treating trauma with a shrug and "that's life" just misses the mark. Not saying everyone needs to be stuck in managing trauma, but the "suck it up and deal with it" line is not something I find valuable. I prefer classic Stocism to imagined stoicism.