Then Chakotay is lucky the wormhole was created, otherwise he'd be stuck on Solum for the rest of his life with no hope of rescue!
Spoilers Star Trek: Prodigy 1x20 - "Supernova, Part 2"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Then Chakotay is lucky the wormhole was created, otherwise he'd be stuck on Solum for the rest of his life with no hope of rescue!
Very lucky, yes!
Beltran might get more chance to stretch his acting chops doing voice work than he did in many episodes of VOY. I'm looking forward to seeing him interact in real time with Admiral Janeway and the kids.
I'd be up for him resuming his command and tutoring the Prodigies too (which might even make a bit of sense given they found his ship, and managed to [with some negative results] thwart the Vau'N'A'Kat plan and they did save a lot of lives (and considering they were teenage kids - or at least most of them - they did really well).
Pro seems to be giving VOY actors a bit more to work with (though thus far, Beltran's work has been relatively minimal for the first season [which is expected]- but this is why I'm hoping they will feature more of him in S2).
Beltran would not have agreed to come back to Trek unless they gave him some better material to work with... and I would imagine that even Mulgrew would have insisten on Prodigy to do this correctly.
So, he probably already saw the rough storyline for S2 and liked what he got (knowing the first season wouldn't feature too much of him - but it would have been interesting the kids were seen accessing Chakotay's other logs during his captaincy and hearing more of Beltran in general).
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I'm ready. Chakotay wasn't a bad character by design, it's just that Beltran wasn't given very much to do with the script material over seven long seasons. When most of your character can be condensed to "Native American who likes to reference his tribal traditions a lot" that doesn't speak well of B&B and the series writers. They squandered a potentially breakthrough character with limited development and lots of dull filler material.
Not necessarily.
I already posited that despite Janeway and even the Vulcan science officer claiming the wormhole leads to an alternate future, they could have been wrong.
No one ever explained just HOW they determined it was an alternate future and not a predestination paradox... because quite frankly, that could still be the case, and everything we witnessed to date was supposed to happen (and no one would know better).
Prodigy may be aimed for kids, but it doesn't shy away from doing adult stuff (and therefore putting off a feel as its more of a live action - and better thought of - than most other live action series which can also contain grim worthy parts).
And yes, even if Gwyn might be 'doomed to fail', the Vau'N'A'Kat may have to go through a civil war in order to move on (as grim as that sounds).
Its also possible that this is why that future still exists (because it already happened and is going to happen)... but I admit, it could just as well be possible that Chakotay is indeed stuck in an alternate future, and Holo Janeway managed to reproduce the first wormhole which leads to that space-time (approximately - aka, 72 days after being captured) as it wouldn't be without precedent that alternate futures continue to exist [the Endgame future still exists apparently - but seems it can't be accessed - unless it became its own alternate universe, in which case SF might be able to access it with Universe hopping technology]).
Trek kinda treats time travel and alternate universes in a same way sometimes and other times it doesn't.
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Indeed. I liked Chakotay, but also feel he wasn't given an opportunity to shine completely.
There were certainly moments when he did come through inspite of the script, but similar thing can be said for others too.
Anyway, here's hoping we see a lot more of real Chakotay in S2.
EDIT: What seems to be encouraging is that PRO writers seem to listening more to the actors and implement some of their suggestions at least which could improve overall scenes and character portrayal.
I wish they'd make Admiral Jellico a wee bit less cartoonishly angry. That's worse than he ever acted on TNG.
Yes, in "Chain of Command" he wasn't the nicest guy ever, but when he WAS angry, he was focused and reasonable in his anger. This time he's just a bitter old man, kind of like George Carlin in his later years.
Yes, in "Chain of Command" he wasn't the nicest guy ever, but when he WAS angry, he was focused and reasonable in his anger. This time he's just a bitter old man, kind of like George Carlin in his later years.
From https://www.ign.com/articles/unpack...nale-supernova-part-2-with-series-showrunners :
As an aside: holo-Janeway not only sacrificed herself to save the kids (her new crew), at the same time she also made sure to give her old crew a chance to be rescued. An excellent character in her own right.
Eh... I hadn't seen much of a difference in Jellico's portrayal (facial expressions) between his TNG debut compared to PRO.
It seems 'fitting' somehow... but at the same time, I do agree that its been a while since his appearance in TNG... and as such, 'some' kind of change would have occurred... but who knows... maybe he approaches his work in a very serious way and only comes off as bitter, but really isn't.
I would say Beltran/Chakotay definitely deserves no less. Will be very interesting to see that.
I just listened to the rebingeIT podcast, and those guys also seem to think that Gwyn is supposed to fly to Solum on that little shuttle. Opinions about that - do you think she's on a shuttle or she gets a fast ship and some support from its crew? Is either one obvious (in your opinion) or is it not clear?
Surely, if it is a shuttle it wouldn't have any of the "ludicrous speed" stuff (if it even exists, which seems unlikely, they would not just give it to a Vau N'akat who is going to Solum), so it would either take dozens of years the conventional way in all likelihood, or she would need to use transwarp conduits like La Sirena would later do (and the Kazon slavers, and possibly Daimon Nandi, are doing now).
I had imagined Gwyn would attempt a covert approach to discreetly approach the man who would become her father, first try to convince him she is what she is and then try to work from there. But this approach would fare much better with an experienced crew that would be capable of avoiding Vau N'akat sensors and spaceships (they should be close to warp and thus likely can at least reach the orbit of their planet, possibly have spacecraft inside their star system much like Earth/Mars have in The Expanse).
If Gwyn is going all alone on a little shuttle, would she even be able to get herself to Solum (boots on the ground, that is) without being detected? Or should we then presume she would not even attempt to evade detection and go in openly? In that case, there wouldn't be much difference with an actual first contact with the Federation.
Surely, if it is a shuttle it wouldn't have any of the "ludicrous speed" stuff (if it even exists, which seems unlikely, they would not just give it to a Vau N'akat who is going to Solum), so it would either take dozens of years the conventional way in all likelihood, or she would need to use transwarp conduits like La Sirena would later do (and the Kazon slavers, and possibly Daimon Nandi, are doing now).
I had imagined Gwyn would attempt a covert approach to discreetly approach the man who would become her father, first try to convince him she is what she is and then try to work from there. But this approach would fare much better with an experienced crew that would be capable of avoiding Vau N'akat sensors and spaceships (they should be close to warp and thus likely can at least reach the orbit of their planet, possibly have spacecraft inside their star system much like Earth/Mars have in The Expanse).
If Gwyn is going all alone on a little shuttle, would she even be able to get herself to Solum (boots on the ground, that is) without being detected? Or should we then presume she would not even attempt to evade detection and go in openly? In that case, there wouldn't be much difference with an actual first contact with the Federation.
Its also possible that Gwyn was only on the shuttle to rendezvous with a SF ship that will get her to Solum (perhaps a Slipstream powered ship or a Prometheus class capable of sustainaing Warp 9.9 effortlessly which would allow speeds of 21 473 times speed of light (or perhaps even 9.91 which would be double the speed).
It is unclear what type of 'support' SF would have provided Gwyn. I would hope it would have been in the form of an actual starship which has a full crew compliment and would park some distance away from Solum to avoid rousing their attention and send her in covertly (but in fairness, this could be what triggered FC in the first place).
Though if they sent her in a shuttle, its possible they had an alternate way of sending her to Solum (like you said, perhaps via a TW conduit, maybe even a subspace corridor if SF was able to finally detect them - and I don't know if Gwyn would have been allowed to keep the shuttle which the Vau'N'A'Kat would analyse - but who knows).
Gwyn could more or less easily convince the young version of her father she is who she is (via telepathy perhaps).
But, I already got the impression the Vau'N'A'Kat already had Warp capability and starships - it seems unlikely they would be 'close to warp' and then decades later come up with 100 ships after the aftermath of their civil war to send after the Protostar.
The Vindicator mentioned they took their last 100 ships and sent them after the Protostar... implying those ships (and more) already existed by the time of FC.
That depends. If the Vau'N'A'Kat detect one of their own onboard a shuttle (As opposed to an alien), this (alongside her plea for saying what awaits Solum if they don't unify) could be enough to shift things into a different direction (which would definitely confirm that the future in which Chakotay is located in is indeed an 'alternate one'... and even perhaps take some of the younger Vau'N'A'Kat from the Prime timeline to accompany Janeway and her crew through the anomaly to the alternate future timeline to help convince them the civil war should end and that the Vau'N'A'Kat need to be able to slavage what can be salvaged and move on).
One of the things Gwyn could propose to the present day Solum is that they delay proposal for entry into the Federation until they manage to deal with their own division that would inevitably erupt before they are ready... and only try to join when they deem themselves to be ready (understanding that SF cannot realistically interfere into their internal affairs and this decision needs to come from unified Solum.
i'm guessing the shuttle was on its way to a ship. Shuttles don't usually have the endurance or facilities to cross whole quadrants, and that one looked like one of the smaller 'speedboat' style shuttles, which tend to be little more than a cockpit.
so my guess is that the shuttle is ferrying her to either the ship directly, or to Starbase 1. (why she didn't beam is a good question, but perhaps there is a limitation on how many transporter signals can be handled in one place.. something like starbase 1 might have people coming on and off so often to earth that transporting all of them might not be possible without the signals messing each other up. but you can handle a lot of shuttles on a station that size.
personally i still suspect she is on her way to the same prometheous class ship that we see making first contact.
so my guess is that the shuttle is ferrying her to either the ship directly, or to Starbase 1. (why she didn't beam is a good question, but perhaps there is a limitation on how many transporter signals can be handled in one place.. something like starbase 1 might have people coming on and off so often to earth that transporting all of them might not be possible without the signals messing each other up. but you can handle a lot of shuttles on a station that size.
personally i still suspect she is on her way to the same prometheous class ship that we see making first contact.
When Gwyn reaches Solum she will probably seek out the young version of her father. I'm sure she'll manage to convince him of who she is and why he should help her.
agreed, but if they are right this is the explanation.
I really think she was going towards a bigger vessel, not one in orbit I guess, as otherwise the shuttle doesn’t make sense.
shuttles seemed to go very fast in the alternate futures we’ve seen in voyager. Also, pretty much everyone seems to have no issue going around great distances on prodigy, sometimes nonsensical so, unless very fast means of travel are now easily available.
presumably.
By the way, am I the only one to suspect that when she finds her father he will be around her age?
That's what I assumed right away - I can see the ship being the (hastily repaired) Dauntless, so Tysess and Noum could be on board and the already created CGI environment could be reused for S2 - but a surprising (to me) amount of commentators, bloggers, podcasters seem to think she has the shuttle and that's it. And the existence of transwarp conduits makes it possible for her to reach Solum theoretically, though it would still take a lot of time (due to the inbetween travel at regular warp, where a shuttle is likely not going to be near a fullsize starship in speed) and be risky given the other ships who make use of it.
If they send Gwyn alone in a shuttle, then I agree they would have to assume the Vau N'akat are likely to get their hands on it. Would seem very sloppy from Starfleet, like they don't really care about the mission or about their tech getting "misplaced".
If that works as seemed to be implied in "A moral star", yes, he should be able to tell she is completely sincere. That would be the obvious place to start. And another point where a Starfleet crew, preferably experienced with studying alien worlds, could help: locate where she can find the Diviner. I'm not sure Gwyn otherwise would be able to find him, given she seemed to know next to nothing about Solum before "A moral star". Unless he gave that info (where did he live, what was his function, etc.) telepathically when he died, I don't think she knows where on the entire planet she needs to look.
After First Contact, they could have had help from the Federation (since the Vau N'akat are pretty advanced in some ways, they may have been open to help with propulsion, possibly in a trade with Vau N'akat tech they wanted) and/or bought technology from, say, the Ferengi (or even the Kazon, whomever had relatively advanced warp vessels and was willing to sell for a more or less reasonable price).
It is of course possible they do have warp already, but if they think they are alone they can't have gone far or have been at it for very long.
I don't think the line of Ascencia indicates in any way those ships must have existed before FC. Many of them could have been build in the run-up to the civil war (arms race?) or even during it.
True, but it would still mean they learn about the Federation and its values, likely aqcuire Starfleet technology (as Gwyn's shuttle would likely be taken, even if only to examine it to corraborate what she says) and learn they are not alone. Starfleet could as well make that first contact themselves then, in that way (with or without Gwyn as "living proof"), and say they wouldn't accept any proposals until the Vau N'akat can prove their society is sufficiently unified not to fracture and fall apart over potential membership or alliance with the UFP.
It was implied in the last scene of Dal and Gwyn together, that a young version of the Diviner lives on Solum in the present (said, by Ascencia, to be "a bright young leader" at this time, though what his exact position is remains unknown, perhaps akin to an up-an-coming young politician?).
As to his age, I think the Diviner was shown in one of the "murals" in Ep 16, showing the arrival of the Prometheus class vessel on Solum. He looked fairly young there (possibly with an equally young Ascencia also in the frame), but I would guess more in his twenties and thus a number of years older than Gwyn). First contact is likely to have occurred, in the Diviner's original timeline, shortly after the present day. That would be why the Diviner - and later Ascencia - were in a hurry and felt that time was running out for them.
Good points about the shuttle, though given Gwyn just made a monthlong trip on another shuttle with 5 other people and quasi no facilities, they make think it's plenty for her
My assumption was that the shuttle went to a ship and it warped out right away, and that was what Dal saw. Others seem to think it was just the shuttle itself going to warp.
As for the Prometheus class, possibly so, but the Dauntless or a sister ship might make more sense both in-universe (much faster, no need for transwarp hubs and will overall arrive more quickly) and for budgetary reasons (reuse the existing assets from the Dauntless, regardless of it being the Dauntless itself or not).
Going toward a bigger vessel that's not directly near Earth is indeed a possibility, though I think the warp flash witnessed by Dal was meant to indicate Gwyn leaving (on whatever craft she was on at that time). Voyager-A did have shuttles on the ground, so another ship also might have a shuttle it would need to retrieve anyway before leaving.
As for going fast over great distances, the writers always point to the transwarp conduits if that comes up, so transwarp it would be.
shuttles often had warp drives even on TOS.
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