Spoilers Star Trek: Lower Decks 3x10 - "The Stars at Night"

[The Wormhole]

Like I said, LD took liberties in how SF behaves, and I don't like the precedent it sets.

Also having people thinking 'there will always be people on the top and bottom ' is nonsense. That's a product of existing socioeconomic system...one that doesn't exist in Trek (so the conditions to manifest the same behaviour wouldn't occur), but I guess this is something that people tend to ignore.

This sort of thing has existed in all the other Treks. The only difference is in the other shows we see it from the perspective of those at the top as those take place on the flag ship or an otherwise prestigious posting. And indeed, we hear on TOS and TNG how Constitution class or Galaxy class postings are coveted by all Starfleet officers. Riker even once said there was a waiting list of years to serve on the Enterprise D.

Now on Lower Decks we're seeing it from the perspective of those on the bottom, on ships people don't really have any enthusiasm about serving on. If anything I find it provides a more balanced and realistic look at Starfleet. Also, of course, being a comedy, this show exaggerates things slightly for laughs, but the basic principle is legitimate all the same.

 

[Charles Phipps]

This sort of thing has existed in all the other Treks. The only difference is in the other shows we see it from the perspective of those at the top as those take place on the flag ship or an otherwise prestigious posting. And indeed, we hear on TOS and TNG how Constitution class or Galaxy postings are coveted by all Starfleet officers. Riker even once said there was a waiting list of years to serve on the Enterprise D.

Now on Lower Decks we're seeing it from the perspective of those on the bottom, on ships people don't really have any enthusiasm about serving on. If anything I find it provides a more balanced and realistic look at Starfleet. Also, of course, being a comedy, this show exaggerates things slightly for laughs, but the basic principle is legitimate all the same.

You assume that people won't find losing vs. winning to be a good thing to achieve a sense of accomplishment.

Everyone winning isn't something people would necessarily want because it robs them of any value to work.

Mind you this is intrinsic to sports, the idea you're not a bunch of sore losers. It feels like non sports competitors disdain the idea of good sportsmanship.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

And Data said in "Menage a Troi" that 91% of Starfleet Academy graduates are not posted to Galaxy-class starships.

 

[The Wormhole]

You assume that people won't find losing vs. winning to be a good thing to achieve a sense of accomplishment.

It's not what I assume, it's the perspective the franchise always presents.

 

[cooleddie74]

Even DSC speaks glowingly of Constitution-class starships with Burnham telling Tilly that a posting to one is an important career goal for some officers while in the first episode of Season 2 Stamets is on the bridge of Discovery and speaks about how impressive a Constitution-class is close up. Even the newest series in the franchise treat ships like the NCC-1701 with a sense of awe that most other Starfleet vessels don't receive.

 

[Charles Phipps]

It's not what I assume, it's the perspective the franchise always presents.

I mean there's still sports and rank in the future.

 

[Jag2112]

Massive screencaps gallery, with some serious starship porn, now online:

https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/sc-LD3-10.php

 

[fireproof78]

Even DSC speaks glowingly of Constitution-class starships with Burnham telling Tilly that a posting to one is an important career goal for some officers while in the first episode of Season 2 Stamets is on the bridge of Discovery and speaks about how impressive a Constitution-class is close up. Even the newest series in the franchise treat ships like the NCC-1701 with a sense of awe that most other Starfleet vessels don't receive.

Even the Command track is regarded as higher, more prestigious than others, at least according to DS9. There is an odd approach by the franchise where diversity is supposedly the guiding attitude.

 

[Kirk1980]

I loved that ending. Shax getting love from the crew was pretty sweet. Bold Boimler picking the right time to show up was solid. Rutherford's tech obsession helping. Mariner evolving as a person.... It was just all so sweet

 

[Tuskin38]

I just remembered, the two key unlock for the warp core was also used on the miniature Cerritos that they made in Season 2.

 

[thribs]

Did that Sovereign fire photons from a Quantum torpedo launcher?

 

[David cgc]

Did that Sovereign fire photons from a Quantum torpedo launcher?

It's just a tube, I'm sure the big one can fire all the kinds of torpedos, even if the smaller ones only fire photons. I remember on the old "Captain's Chair" panoramic tour CD-ROM, you could fire photon torpedos or quantum torpedos, and they both came out of the main launcher in the little VFX clip that played. Of course, this was right after First Contact came out, years before we actually saw all those extra photon tubes scattered around the ship being used in NEM.

 

[Paul755]

When it comes to T’Lynn, I hope they keep going with the running joke that she’s really emotional.

“That would be…acceptable Captain”
“Woah, Lieutenant no need to fly off the handle like that”

 

[Airmandan]

It's interesting that some are much more painted than others. I wonder what the justification is for that. A further way to differentiate duties performed?

 

[Paul755]

Maybe it’s the preference of the Captain. Remember how that officer was asking Freeman about new nacelles, etc… back in the S1 finale.

 

[jackoverfull]

It's just a tube, I'm sure the big one can fire all the kinds of torpedos, even if the smaller ones only fire photons.

the D even fires probes from the same launcher.

It's interesting that some are much more painted than others. I wonder what the justification is for that. A further way to differentiate duties performed?

indeed, in all three colours. The original rationale for the yellow was that the Cerritos is an engineering shop, however they have been showing doing diplomacy as well. No idea if for example the blue ones are mainly science vessels and the red…what would a California-class command ship do?!

 

[Deks]

That’s always been nonsense, as far as I can tell. There is the ideal and then there is how people really live and act. Human (or humanoid) nature wouldn’t change with all the technology and different government systems. Starfleet and The Federation as it is shown has money, war, revenge, corruption, intrigue, murder, prisons, love triangles, political tensions, tabloid journalists religious conflict, crappy jobs and competition, including in the original series. It might have less of the bad stuff. My best guess for the money thing is that everyone has guaranteed education, health care, shelter, travel, etc., but some people like Picard are more equal than others. The other reason they all live so nicely is that Section 31 is always slithering about in the shadows doing the dirty work that lets them maintan the bright, shiny facade.

Now there's nonsense if I ever read one.
Human behavior depends on the environment in which it takes place, while in turn people also influence the environment by their presence and activities.
As part of the environment, people behave in response to both physical and social settings.

By changing the entire socio-economic structure under which Humanity operates, it would have led to vastly different patterns of beahvior.
Starfleet as such wouldn't have discriminatory values towards 'tasks' nor would it see certain classes of ships (or their crews) as being on the 'bottom'.

I am quite frankly disappointed that many Trek fans still hold onto outdated myths such as 'human nature'.... what's worse, while Trek in principle says one thing, it sometimes shows something else (which leads me to think the writers also have 0 clue about human behaviour actually works ... so they tend to PROJECT existing norms and values onto a future setting where those thigns wouldn't arise in the first place).

If you want to continue to think that 'human nature' is a thing... go right ahead, but that doesn't change the fact that the science disagrees with you.

 

[dswynne1]

^ It sounds like projection on your part, on what you want STAR TREK to be. The franchise has never eschewed away from the idea of the three basic story tenets: Man v. Environment, Man v. Man, and Man v. Self. These are classic story tenets that have always existed, serving as challenges for the protagonists of any plot device. Also, the idea that humankind is strictly a materialistic being, and therefore can be changed via a mechanistic approach would make the show BORING. You may think that the Starfleet would have members who have no flaws, simply because the setting is that of the future, but that's not the direction of the franchise. Never has been, and I've been a fan of 'Trek since TOS. The purpose of the franchise is to be the mirror of today's society, set in the future. In this case, the purpose of THIS episode of LDs is to illustrate the flaws of AI while demonstrating why the "human touch", as flawed and as inefficient as it is, will always be vital, thanks to THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP. Silly? Maybe, but vastly entertaining with a wholesome message for the audience.

You should rethink your stance just a bit on this one.

 

[Weyoun 251]

"Someone has to be the worst." Basically, there's got to be something at the bottom since not everything can be the top.

So the Cali class is the Harry Kim of starships?

 

[Farscape One]

Now there's nonsense if I ever read one.
Human behavior depends on the environment in which it takes place, while in turn people also influence the environment by their presence and activities.
As part of the environment, people behave in response to both physical and social settings.

By changing the entire socio-economic structure under which Humanity operates, it would have led to vastly different patterns of beahvior.
Starfleet as such wouldn't have discriminatory values towards 'tasks' nor would it see certain classes of ships (or their crews) as being on the 'bottom'.

I am quite frankly disappointed that many Trek fans still hold onto outdated myths such as 'human nature'.... what's worse, while Trek in principle says one thing, it sometimes shows something else (which leads me to think the writers also have 0 clue about human behaviour actually works ... so they tend to PROJECT existing norms and values onto a future setting where those thigns wouldn't arise in the first place).

If you want to continue to think that 'human nature' is a thing... go right ahead, but that doesn't change the fact that the science disagrees with you.

Human nature may very well change for the better because of replicators, no need for money, etc... but it's NOT going to happen in just a couple hundred years.

More like a couple thousand years. Completely unrealistic that humans will change that much that quickly. (And I am speaking as someone who firmly hopes we get our collective acts together and that a first contact scenario like the Vulcans really does make such an impact. But I have to be realistic, too...)