Spoilers Star Trek: Lower Decks 3x09 - "Trusted Sources"

[jackoverfull]

Federation that forbids all contact with non-warp capable civilizations

clearly not in TOS and early TNG. see the Edos or those guys in that racist episode, Picard deals with plenty of obviously non-warp capable people. For gene’s sake, the edo don’t even have the concept of outer space!

Can you give a single piece of evidence that they weren't warp capable?

if they were they could warp to other systems and seek for means to fix their ships there.

And if he gave the medical substitute for the withdrawals, that would also be interfering because it was an unknown technology (or medicine, in this case) that they didn't develop on their own.

true, but it would have prevented so much suffering.

wanting a monogamous relationship is an outlier, not the norm, since monogamy in both gay and straight relationships are on the decline, so you can imagine that committed relationships in THE FUTURE is seen as both "traditional" and "rare".

I don’t think that this trend means what you think it means: just because there are more poliamorous people won’t mean that monogamy will become a minority in the future, just like seeing more LGBT people won’t mean being straight will become a minority. It just means that with society becoming more tolerant people that used to be in hiding will reveal themselves more often, giving the impression that the minorities are gaining in numbers.

 

[DEWLine]

Mariner and Sh'reyan will each have other options, I expect.

Meantime, I suspect the question of which quadrant the Delos system - hosting both Ornara and Brekka - is located in just got settled by way of the Breen attack. Delos is in Alpha Quadrant, probably coreward because Breen proximity.

And yes, I suspect also that Adm. Buenamigo definitely set the Cerritos up for this particular PR reveal stunt about the Texas class.

 

[valkyrie013]

From reading mem alpha,
there was a scout ship in the 22nd century, it was federation, could they have made contact? Maybe, Don't know when the Prime Directive came into effect. Maybe lower bar since they seen Impulse ships and transporters, and decided to make contact or atleast say Hi.
If there was already contact, then the Prime directive wouldn't apply to contact, but would apply to any interference. They only interfered because of the ship being in danger. they didn't have to help.
In a hundred years, youd think the Breccan's would learn to make and maintain ships, since they clearly could see the Onarans loosing the ability to fix and run there ships.
So after Picard left, the ships broke down, and they went cold turkey.

Now, the federation Could have/should have showed back up and helped them to treat there withdrawal symtoms so it would be an easier time for them, but technically the Feds didn't have to.
Now the episode was wrong when it said that picard broke communications. Should have said, they left, and there ships were broke down, so couldn't get there drugs, and its a good study in the use of the Prime Directive.

 

[Farscape One]

The Sanction was not the last functional ship. They had other ships available.

ROMAS: Once our freighters are fixed, everything'll be back to normal.
PICARD: No.
T'JON: No?
PICARD: The coils stay here.
ROMAS: What about our freighters?
PICARD: You want to repair them, you'll have to learn to do it yourselves.
T'JON: We can't.
ROMAS: If you don't help us, our ships will soon be inoperable.
PICARD: Quite possibly.

The Prime Directive is for Starfleet, not for civilian ships. So, a Federation civilian has more latitude in how they make contact with a little known or not known at all civilization.

DATA: Mister Ramsey is correct, Counsellor. The Odin was not a starship, which means her crew is not bound by the Prime Directive. If he and the others wish to stay here, there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. ("Angel One")

Note, I said functional ships. Since they were not fixed, they clearly were not functional. If your car broke down, but you didn't get a mechanic to fix whatever the problem is (or fix yourself, if you know about such things), is it really functional?

Same principle.

still, they are not *destroying* the planet: they have landing parties occupied in doing *something* there. And there can be only up to a few thousands on those three ships.

Why would the two technologies be connected?

And with the hand weapons the Breen had, since we have no evidence of any form of advanced weaponry on Brekka and they said they had NO industry other than felicium production, I can still see the Breen easily kill all the Brekkians.

 

[Starkers]

That was superb. I've said it before but it never ceases to amaze me how much plot this show can squeeze into 25 minutes!

I knew Mariner was innocent but had suspected an individual had badmouthed the crew rather than individual members of the crew badmouthing themselves!

The journalist/Breen/Texas class all seems like quite a convenient convergence (although it was Freeman's decision to go to Brekka). Automated starships, do the Federation learn nothing?!

There's going to be a lot to squeeze into the finale, unless some of these issues are going to trip over into Season 4.

I was genuinely upset when Mariner left the Cerritos Screw you Jennifer!

 

[Seven of Five]

That was awesome! It was fun seeing the Breen again, and the party-mad cetacean ops workers.

There were some great visuals, and it even pulled at my heartstrings having Mariner transferred off the ship. I can't wait for next week's conclusion.

 

[The Wormhole]

I want an entire episode devoted to Starbase 80. Those scenes were hilarious. The sandwich being founded in Mariner's uniform was fun, but the bit where Freeman contacted SB80 trying to get a hold of Mariner, and the guy pulls out a rolodex to find her contact info really had me laughing uncontrollably.

 

[jackoverfull]

.




And with the hand weapons the Breen had, since we have no evidence of any form of advanced weaponry on Brekka and they said they had NO industry other than felicium production, I can still see the Breen easily kill all the Brekkians.

it’s going to take a long time for a few thousands troops armed with hand weapons to kill the population of an entire planet, imagine of two!

 

[Danny99]

I want an entire episode devoted to Starbase 80. Those scenes were hilarious. The sandwich being founded in Mariner's uniform was fun, but the bit where Freeman contacted SB80 trying to get a hold of Mariner, and the guy pulls out a rolodex to find her contact info really had me laughing uncontrollably.

Meh, to each their own. I think they leaned too heavily into this being the backwater base of the universe.

 

[Starkers]

I think Starbase 80 works as a jokey place to see for thirty seconds. I suspect a whole episode set there would get real old, real fast.

 

[Jag2112]

Screencaps gallery now online:

https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/sc-LD3-9.php

 

[matthunter]

Regarding whether the Cerritos has no countermeasures against the Breen energy dissipator - it clearly DOES, since the weapon seen in DS9 shut down everything but emergency power in a single shot, whilst the Cerritos keeps fighting for some time after several hits. The Breen may have made some improvements OR the countermeasures Starfleet developed in DS9 were only ever this effective and that was sufficient because, in a large-scale fleet battle taking several shots to knock out a single ship is not THAT much more effective than simply firing regular energy weapons/torpedoes.

 

[Tuskin38]

Jennifer and Mariner is dead

Why do you think that? They broke up over a misunderstanding. I'm sure Jen felt like shit after seeing the actual report. They'll probably get back together.

 

[Brennyren]

^^^I'm not so sure. Mariner already had serious trust issues, and Jennifer refusing to support, or believe, her -- that's not the kind of betrayal one forgets.

 

[Wouter]

The journalist/Breen/Texas class all seems like quite a convenient convergence (although it was Freeman's decision to go to Brekka). Automated starships, do the Federation learn nothing?!

Automated starships aren't bad in and off itself (though admiral Buenamigo is sinister). The Enterprise-D, and even the Stargazer before that, were already fully automated by any measure, as Picard (and/or Riker) could just give verbal orders and the computers would do everything. The Protostar clearly can operate fully automatic as well, even La Sirena (with all its holograms) too. I think it is the wrong conclusion to judge such autonomous starships on failed experiments like the M-5 or on sabotage committed by a radical Romulan splinter group.
See also the Prometheus, fully autonomous with its main computer being steered by two separate advanced AI's (the EMH mk I and II). Just because it is obviously meant to go wrong in Lower Decks, doesn't mean that the idea is bad.

At least, I guess we don't demand that Data or the main computer of the Ent-D should have been dismantled because both are far to autonomous (at least potentially in the latter case)?

Ironically, I think this episode makes a good case for second contact missions: the murals on the first planet made it clear it should have happened many years ago, shortly after Picard's visit. This could have avoided lots of suffering and made the planet a federation member. But with the hit piece by the "journalist", this message will probably be lost (unless Mariner or her friends make sure it gets out, later).

 

[Tuskin38]

^^^I'm not so sure. Mariner already had serious trust issues, and Jennifer refusing to support, or believe, her -- that's not the kind of betrayal one forgets.

They seemed like they were getting along a lot better 'Hear All, Trust Nothing'.

 

[Paul755]

Honestly, Mariner and Jennifer has been such a nothing burger of a plot line aside from the crappy “b” storyline in the DS9 episode it really doesn’t bother me that they broke up (for now).

Maybe if a bit more time has been devoted to it I might feel different but it was kinda outta left field to begin with and I get it from a representation stand point. And that’s great. But beyond that…eh…it feels like Boimlers GF from S1.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Why do you think that? They broke up over a misunderstanding. I'm sure Jen felt like shit after seeing the actual report. They'll probably get back together.

I mean it's not a misunderstanding. They broke up because Mariner turned to Jennifer for support and she didn't believe her.

A very good reason to break up as Jennifer didn't have her back.

So Mariner should date Boimler, Tendi, and Rutherford together. Make a nice little Denubulon marriage.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Honestly, Mariner and Jennifer has been such a nothing burger of a plot line aside from the crappy “b” storyline in the DS9 episode it really doesn’t bother me that they broke up (for now).

Maybe if a bit more time has been devoted to it I might feel different but it was kinda outta left field to begin with and I get it from a representation stand point. And that’s great. But beyond that…eh…it feels like Boimlers GF from S1.

I think the producers have stated:

1. They don't like doing romance to begin with.

2. They only did this because Jennifer was so popular.

It tracks that they broke up the relationship because so many people were complaining about not enough Jennifer. So they realized they could only do Mariner/Jennifer if she was a main character and they didn't want that.

So out Jennifer goes.

 

[Amaris]

I mean it's not a misunderstanding. They broke up because Mariner turned to Jennifer for support and she didn't believe her.

A very good reason to break up as Jennifer didn't have her back.

So Mariner should date Boimler, Tendi, and Rutherford together. Make a nice little Denubulon marriage.

Agreed. Denobulan marriages for all!